[CHANGE] Berserker diminishing returns

[Erelei]

Hot Change Date: 03/07/2017

Diminishing returns for berserkers regarding hitroll has been greatly reduced. Damroll diminishing returns slightly reduced.

View full hot change

[tassinvegeta]

Oh... My... Gawd...

[f0xx]

Why not completely removed? Too stronk?

[Lloth]

Imagine how much flak we would get if AC didn't matter.

[f0xx]

I don't understand what you mean, @Lloth.

[Lloth]

I mean that we already get a lot of mage players saying that melees are too strong, hit too often, and do too much damage through the ac they have.

If you make it so that hitroll and damroll have no diminishing returns, and AC is the only thing that would factor as a way of capping off damage, the prayer forum (and general forum) would be in riot over it. 

Considering how high you can stack hit/dam if you focus only on those two things... you'd have zerks blowing up every class because they hit like freight trains with the accuracy of a sniper rifle. You wouldn't be able to up your AC to a point where it matters much at all, since AC would still have all of its diminishing returns, as well as having a relatively hard cap in the 800s. 

We actually had the opposite of this, for a time, when you could get your AC over 1000, and be nigh-untouchable by melees whilst having only one defense.

[f0xx]

I know how the theory, but you just compared no diminishing returns to having no AC, which seems a bit crazy to me.

[Erelei]

If you were able to attain that high of HR/DR with no returns, it'd be like you had no AC.

[Mmm Coffee]

This change might need to be looked at. Or at least reduce their blind resistance a little to counter-balance the change.

[Trick]

39 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

This change might need to be looked at. Or at least reduce their blind resistance a little to counter-balance the change.

Why do you say that? Have you had an experience with this or just saying?

[f0xx]

44 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

This change might need to be looked at. Or at least reduce their blind resistance a little to counter-balance the change.

What is "blind resistance"? 

[Mmm Coffee]

I'm pretty sure zerks get a resistance to being blinded (at least they used to a long time ago).  Not sure if it's only the spell or also fireblind.

And to Trick, yes.  Seems like a willy nilly change to appease zerk players that didn't take into consideration certain races, like minotaurs, that can keep people in a fight.

The change states "greatly reduced" diminished returns for hitroll change.  Why greatly?  Why any change at all?  Again, we capped mage parry and now a certain melee class gets even more chance to hit them.  And when they do hit (i.e. always), it's now for more damage since we "slightly reduced" damage diminishing returns on them. 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Mmm Beer

[mya]

6 hours ago, Mmm Beer said:

I'm pretty sure zerks get a resistance to being blinded

Never noticed anything like that. And my first approach vs berserkers is get them blind.

[Zoichan]

Not sure if I'd call it a resistance to blind, but they do get a small buff when blinded and in combat.

[Fool_Hardy]

Surge. Which grants better hit and dam, aka panic mode.

Now I wonder if he is misremembering. Because, and I apologize to the staff for this, seriously, the Power of Roi, did offer blind resistance when it was created.

[Trick]

Surge..?

Did you just rename "panic"? Lol

[Dale]

Also adds fourth attack or haste doesn't it?

[Fool_Hardy]

well, you see how long its been since I played a zerker. ^^

[Mmm Coffee]

14 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

 

Now I wonder if he is misremembering. Because, and I apologize to the staff for this, seriously, the Power of Roi, did offer blind resistance when it was created.

I didn't realize it had a name but yeah I think that's why I always thought they had some kind of resistance to blind.  If not, I think it still needs looking at.  Zerks are pretty powerful with every cabal, I don't see why they should get to hit more with their 80-100 damrolls.

[f0xx]

1 minute ago, Mmm Beer said:

I don't see why they should get to hit more with their 80-100 damrolls.

Because they are a pure melee that doesn't have blind fighting.

 

2 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

Zerks are pretty powerful with every cabal

Are they now? I think they are pretty weak even after the change. They get messed up hard in so many way, by so many combos...

[Trick]

1 minute ago, Mmm Beer said:

I didn't realize it had a name but yeah I think that's why I always thought they had some kind of resistance to blind.  If not, I think it still needs looking at.  Zerks are pretty powerful with every cabal, I don't see why they should get to hit more with their 80-100 damrolls.

Because they don't get anything else. A warrior can get those numbers but not sacrifice any defenses. 

Berserkers, if anything, need more not less.

You realize they can't sleep when blind right? They have to relax first which has almost a full tick of lag so they miss that hour typically. Basic strategy will beat a berserker. We've gotten away from simple things that work and instead want the code to fix our PK mistakes.

[Mmm Coffee]

2 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Are they now? I think they are pretty weak even after the change. They get messed up hard in so many way, by so many combos...

Well it's obvious who's playing zerks heh.  They get messed up when they rage against charmie classes at the wrong time.  So to fix this, we make them able to stack hit/dam and rage into the near-triple-digits with less impact on Hit/dam.  I'm all for this if there's a nerf somewhere else.  From my fights and observations, cabal synergy with this kind of damage output ESPECIALLY combined with certain racical perks is practically unstoppable except maybe for a sleep/knockout class.  I'd hate to be a vuln class that has to fight one consistently.  I managed to get over -700 AC on my current char and it did practically nothing even with a damage shield up.  I still ate 5-6 devastates-maims/round  + passive CAPS cabal damage and I wasn't even blind. But let's nerf AC and increase melee output! 

I'd like to see a warrior score sheet that gets 80+ h/d without sac'ing some kind of saves.  If anything, it's the exception not the rule.

[Erelei]

Pretty sure f0xx has never played a berserker. I could be wrong though  using the argument “you play zerks so your argument is bias” is just the same as you saying “zerks are OP - I play a mage btw”. 

 

[f0xx]

49 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

Well it's obvious who's playing zerks heh.

Firstly, the only thing that's obvious is who you play.

Secondly, I play zerks? That's new to me. Do you hear this one @Nekky?

Thirdly, trying to discredit my arguments by saying that I defend zerks only because I "play" them speaks that are out of good arguments yourself.

Forthly, say that while you play who you play is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

 

49 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

we make them able to stack hit/dam and rage into the near-triple-digits

I've told you this before, but I have no idea where you're getting your info from....

 

That being said, unless you post an actual log, it is very hard to comment on mere claims.

 

[edit] Btw, there's a good reason why I've never played zerks, and probably never will. I just think they suck. I've had to fight a few with my current char(s) and they were never something that would strike me as broken. Yes, they are stronger after the change. But before that, they were just gimped warriors. I've won all my encounters too.

Edited August 12, 2017 by f0xx

[Trick]

Fire giant zerk reaver is the only one that really strikes any kind of fear, but that's more of the fire giant/reaver synergy than it is berserker strength.