Play times

[Mali]

Back in the day there was actually a HUNTER cabal that was more like WATCHER. SYNDICATE was CONCLAVE and more akin to soul reavers. Maybe we learn something by looking back. 

[Pali]

4 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Zavero started mudding in HS. We should keep young players in mind while choosing times. To bring in new youths if we can.

Gaming in our high school days was a very different beast than gaming is for high schoolers now.  I've got no access to relevant statistics, but I'd be very surprised if teens now mud at comparable rates to a decade or so ago.  Kids now have grown up used to games that they can pick up and drop as needed on their mobile devices or the big MMOs with hundreds or thousands of people to play with at any given moment.

 

For my part, it really is a matter of the time investment - and I don't mean how long it takes to get cabal promotions or other rewards, I mean the time investment needed for me to feel invested in my character.  I know from personal experience that if I'm not averaging 30+ hours a month that it is hard for me to feel the character, to feel like I'm growing them, to feel like I'm having an impact on the world.  It's like having a D&D session once a month or so, where you can sit down and have some fun fights or whatever, but you're simply not playing often enough for you to really get into your character's head - and I don't come here for the PK, I come here for the characters and immersion, and I won't have it without dedicating myself to sinking more time consistently into one game than I'm willing to.

 

I work two jobs, I'm trying to maintain a YouTube gaming channel, as well maintain some semblance of a social life and also enjoy various other games simply for pleasure - I simply don't have time to live a second life in Aabahran like I used to anymore.  FL hasn't been able to hold onto me for more than a few months at a time in several years, and I don't see that pattern changing - it's not anything wrong with FL keeping me away, it's just life.

[Fool_Hardy]

Happy Hours is plural. We could for instance say between 4 and 5, am and pm. Times could be determined for best results, meaning greatest likelihood of luring players, Some of us are going to play, alone if we have too. This is for the everyone else.

Who would not come see what happy hourdoes. One rumor said random skills receive a temporary boost. Another fellow told me proficiencies grew considerably. The last fellow hinted that it was easier to find HELPFUL players during happy hour. Think about it.

[Ulmusdorn]

Im all for encouraging people to play and if that means handing things out then lets talk about it. 

What do you guys want? When do you want it? What is the plan?

Lets put all of our heads together to get an answer that meets everyones needs.

[f0xx]

I will tell you what I want.

I want (my) RP logs to not be constantly ignored. When they are not awarded in a timely fashion, this means that noone has read them. And if noone is reading them, then this means two things:

1) Noone cares for (my) RP

2) Noone has the time to

 

I put *my* in parentheses only because I speak for myself, but I know that others have similar experiences too. And it's not just logs. RP in general is being ignored. I don't want to go into details, but in general, the game feels very stale.

If someone told me some time ago that we will have an active coder but no supporting IMMs to move RP around, I wouldn't have believed him. But that's how I feel right now.

 

[aaa]

I don't want anything tangible. The best times I've had have been experiences. 

I want imms to control my charmies, control the mobs I'm hunting and fight back. I want mhalador style royal rumbles and imms auctioning off items. 

If you guys are too busy to interact with us, let me do it. I'll stay wizinvis'd forever and just control mobs and Rp with people. That's the type of interaction I want. 

If low level imms can't control mobs, they should be allowed to. 

It's like playing dnd and we're all players with no real dm. 

[Zavero]

3 hours ago, Pali said:

For my part, it really is a matter of the time investment - and I don't mean how long it takes to get cabal promotions or other rewards, I mean the time investment needed for me to feel invested in my character.  I know from personal experience that if I'm not averaging 30+ hours a month that it is hard for me to feel the character, to feel like I'm growing them, to feel like I'm having an impact on the world.  It's like having a D&D session once a month or so, where you can sit down and have some fun fights or whatever, but you're simply not playing often enough for you to really get into your character's head - and I don't come here for the PK, I come here for the characters and immersion, and I won't have it without dedicating myself to sinking more time consistently into one game than I'm willing to.

Very well said. I'm the same way. With my son being three months I've spent all my time I am not at work with him. My character suffers but I try to play them as much as I can. Perhaps I should just focus on one instead of two. I just need variety at times.

I play for the role play as well. PK is fun and while I still enjoy it, it is the reason I don't log in as much. If I could safely log in and role play on my phone I'd be logged in a lot more. I just don't wish to take the risk of dying simply because I'm on my phone. So I just don't log in when I cannot be on PC. But alas, this is a RP/PK mud. Perhaps its best for me to move on again. I don't know.

[tassinvegeta]

Truly believe there should be more focus on developing the weaker, emptier cabal. Greater enticements and faster rewards for going against the tide. It used to mean something when the I or M defeated an E  or when a player stayed when outnumbered.

Cool rp doesn't seem as encouraged as it used to be. Dynamics should change with players rp, room changes, mob changes, item changes etc. There are a couple of players rp I really enjoy, If I were an imm I'd encourage them by try to change the world a bit for them. Not only to continue to encourage that player and others but to also have it come to fruition.

Now it doesn't matter what you do, you have to wait 40+ hours for E almost regardless of your accomplishments.

Watcher desperately needs at least a temporary mechanic like armies in my imho. Greenery entraps the area in Gaia's embrace.

If there are 8 freakin Nexus and another 5 Syndicate (totaling 13 enemies) why don't we have a system to help get more Knights in there? The 13 will just get bored and eventually quit. The idea of imms being in charge of one single cabal seems very outdated and has been brought up many times as an impediment to the dynamics of an ever changing FL. 

That Miruvhorian Whisperer was very cool, we should bring him back. And have a system that awards even more rp points that gives the Whisperer material to work with. i.e. "you have been awarded rp points for the Whisperers material."

I like the idea of imm driven contests that has players doing things around the map. With rewards given out akin to lockbox rewards. Special titles etc.. Lets have an Easter/Resurrection type contest  

Hmm maybe split up Imm duties. Rather than spread out cabal duties amongst each of them. Consolidate cabal duties to only a few and create new duties based on;

• rewards for whats already in place to make sure none gets left behind or gets that sour taste in there mouth, a suicide prevention imm so to speak  
• a contests and event Imm
• a dynamically changing fl to match rp Imm
• one EQUILIBRIUM Imm or 4 (rather than 8 Imms) that focuses on balancing the strong vs underdog cabals.

[Fool_Hardy]

We reward time served in a cabal with promotions. Although many of you get frustrated with the extent of the time. I believe the counter for those promotions should be overclocked during periods of extreme danger, meaning when a character is undoubtedly outnumbered by his "hard coded" enemies.

We reward role play. Unfortunately this seems to be slipping into the ether, so I will say it the way it "appears" to some players. We reward people who spend hours offline editing logs or writing journals with the sole purpose being to garner an RP reward. We should be rewarding the player for being ONLINE sharing the RP in real time as well.

As for me, I would rather be putting my RP out there in game, than spend the few hours I can a lot for the day editing an hour of yesterdays memories. I would rather be the only Savant against a team of Warmasters, leaving corpses across the Ford, than to abandon my characters cause out of fear that I might lose something.

In the end, I come to FL to play. It is the game that I love, not the rewards. It is the interaction I cherish, not the recognition.

So what I want is simple, I want bait to lure others into this addictive trap I call home, and you call Aabahran.

[Kyzarius]

Just now, Fool_Hardy said:

 

We reward role play. Unfortunately this seems to be slipping into the ether, so I will say it the way it "appears" to some players. We reward people who spend hours offline editing logs or writing journals with the sole purpose being to garner an RP reward. We should be rewarding the player for being ONLINE sharing the RP in real time as well.

 

replay says, copy, paste, submit.  I advocated this for the reason of removing offline time requirements. 

I have gotten much RP since this change.  It is the PERFECT logging tool for getting your RP log to the rp prayer forum.  

it captures says, emotes, pmotes, and smotes now.   In one command you get a clean log you can submit in seconds. 

 

EVERYONE should be doing this.  If you speak to someone, replay it post it and win. 

[Fool_Hardy]

Was unaware that was even possible. I would spend hours editing, submit, and be told I forgot to remove this or that and just give the hell up log in and PLAY more. Someone Sticky what Kyz just said!

[Kyzarius]

Well it is in the recent updates. This is a few weeks old. 

[Zavero]

Kyz, the last time I did that it killed my connection. I guess I ran through Maelbrim and Val Miran too much haha. Too many says.

[Kyzarius]

1 minute ago, Zavero said:

Kyz, the last time I did that it killed my connection. I guess I ran through Maelbrim and Val Miran too much haha. Too many says.

type

scroll 25

to set it to 25 lines, then hit enter.  The only editing I ever do anymore is cleaning out the [hit return to continue] lines. 

 

[Zavero]

Ah, yeah usually I do scroll 0. I didn't even think of doing that. Funny I use the more/less command every day at work... bah.

[Fool_Hardy]

54 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

Well it is in the recent updates. This is a few weeks old. 

I read the forum from my phone most of the time. Gone 12+hrs from PC a day. So I tend to only glimpse the surface of the forum. When I am at my PC, I am called by port 1848, not www.theforsakenlands.org. So I don't dig into what I should here, because my heart and mind are in Aabahran. Here I play devils advocate for others, but in the game I get to explore the world, my characters, and yours. Personally, that IS my reward. Unfortunately, I am beginning to believe that if I do not actively seek the actual RP rewards/edges I will never be able to compete. Since my playtime sets me against some of the very best Player Killers, I need to evolve, and I am trying.

[Kyzarius]

i honestly feel the necessity to post logs in order to get rewards breaks game immersion.  Though it seems to be the only way to get them consistently. 

[Celerity]

2 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

i honestly feel the necessity to post logs in order to get rewards breaks game immersion.  Though it seems to be the only way to get them consistently. 

Any thoughts on a solution?

[Mali]

I would like to be able to post them anonymously on the RP log section much like we do with PK.

[Manual Labour]

The imms can implement every idea under the sun but if the players continue to be assholes in game nobody is going to play. Think about your actions before executing them, don't take every free kill that comes your way, and don't use "RP" (and I use that term very loosely) to taunt the person you just defeated. Don't sacrifice the consumables of every opponent you easily beat, sometimes not killing or looting someone who does not pose an immediate threat to you is better for the game in the long run. Behind every character is a player and when you piss people off you risk losing them. I know for a fact there are certain players here, who are very good at the game, who are also complete dicks in game and have single handedly driven away multiple players through their douchebag approach to the game. I recently tried making a character that encouraged people to log on because I was neutral with no enemies and acted as a guide and an equipper. Characters like this are good for the game because they help the users to have fun and get ahead on their toons (even if only temporarily). All it takes is one powerful piece of shit character to ruin the game for 75% of the playerbase, and what I find disturbing is that this type of player actually gets off on this behavior. Then they invariably come crying to the forum about how there is nobody to play with, ironic much?

You reap what you sow FL, and the #1 factor in player retention and player loss is player behavior.

[Kyzarius]

Just now, Celerity said:

Any thoughts on a solution?

the solution is a cultural challenge.  

Look, some background you may not know...... I am a logistics consultant and supply chain management guru.  I rewrite the business rules around large corporations supply chain and management structures to be more efficient and trim fat to save them tons of money then i take my chunk and go sit in my cabin in the mountains, or the beach house in the bahamas.  You have my products in your house guaranteed, world wide.  Especially if you own a car, or have any type of cleaning chemicals.  Point being I do top down restructuring of massively complex systems to improve cost and performance.

FL has an ongoing heavily integrated culture of administrative micromanagement.  You are told how to play, what to do, how long to do it, and denied access to portions based on guidelines that change depending on who is administering said task.  You are rewarded when the admins feel like it, and punished just the same.  Quest races / classes, cabal inductions/promotions, clan promotions, leaving a clan, desc approvals, the entire RP reward system, change approvals and processing, all of these systems could be cleaned out and given more or totally automated formats.  

If this was a business I would automate everything I could and fire most of staff to save money (aka create players..) lol.  Consumers want their prize and they want it now without having to wait for manager J to clear his/her inbox to get it done.  Expedite delivery by cutting required lead times that exist only because the business rule says "we have always done it that way."

1. RP rewards for an example.  Players could use an anonymous moot system where votes for reward values are started, and players reward each other for their experience. I have played on muds where this worked with no issue.  Players would build "moot points" as they played over time, and could then give those points to other players as "rp points" by starting a vote where other players could add to the points form their own or take them away and even flat out deny the reward.  Journals are..neat? but really just busy work that has ZERO impact on the game itself, and are bias towards people who can farm out BS easily.  Now you have all of that taking place in game. 

 

The problem though is the systems in place, as I said, are born of the cultural drive to maintain the micromanagment of these different processes thus making them VERY difficult to change to the point of literally having to reinvint parts of the mud (again rp system..) 

[Zavero]

@Manual Labour, I def agree with this. Some of the players drive others away... just look at Trick as an example.

@Kyzarius, I agree that some things really need to be automated but not everything. I'm not sure I would want to play this game where I get points based off other players opinions simply because some players are absolutely spiteful to others based off encounters in the past. Also, my current character has 20 journals over 300 hours of play. Each journal means something to my character, his history, his experiences, maybe I am in the minority but journals really help me flesh my characters out. As I write them I reflect on the character. Part of what kept me coming back when I initially started back here.

[Fool_Hardy]

I know this will be unpopular...

What if we created some rewards based on deed, instead of hope?

We reward the journals and logs, for a couple of reasons.

1. People spent personal time working hard to develop good content, and or format it correctly.
2. The role play of the characters is being felt by many of the players.

While these things should be rewarded, we must admit we are rewarding hope. We hope the RP lasts, we hope the character has longevity.

On the other end, what is the reward for hitting 100 hrs? 200 hrs? 300 hrs?

Here is the unpopular, some of you probably will say, shall we reward someone who has done nothing but sit in their cabal for a couple of hundred hours?

Yes, not only should we, its a rat bastard shame I have to say it at all. Player rewards should reward people for "playing".

So its not a question of should we have a hour centennial reward system, its a question of what should those rewards be.

Every ten in game hours what happens? Stop thinking, you age one year. So 100 hrs is ten life years.

I think something incredible should be the reward personally. Like what? Maybe access to a skill/spell you normally would not have.

So the Halfling healer who got enlarge at 100 hrs, is not likely to delete at 196hrs, because he is so close to the next crazy upgrade.

Will this make some people overpowered? No, when staff is made aware of your characters decade of service, they will know your record, and what skill/spells will help you without making you an unstoppable force. An immortal would have to "give" you the skill, and we must trust them to be fair.

I know this is not popular, to reward time served, but folks, its what we want.

[f0xx]

I dislike this idea a lot....

BUT

The biggest problem right now is lack of people online. If it has even the slightest chance to keep players online, then it should at least be considered.

[Zavero]

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

I dislike this idea a lot....

BUT

The biggest problem right now is lack of people online. If it has even the slightest chance to keep players online, then it should at least be considered.

Wow... Never thought I would see this...

@Fool_Hardy, what about instead of a skill it could be something else such as a custom title for reaching xxx hours, maybe restrung equipment, or things that enrich the RP aspect of your character rather than balance any PK in your favor. Maybe at first at least and then a character with 600 hours starts to get skills/spells that make sense for the character.

Longevity is an issue and I personally enjoy seeing familiar faces when I log in.