Play times

[English lad]

2 hours ago, f0xx said:

 

That's a possibility too, but in he end does it really matter?

And how will an emergency exit command help if that is the case? You can log out before the fight starts (as it is right now), or you can log out when you see your ass is getting wooped and after you've made your opponent burn many consumables to prepare for the fight.

How will this "emergency exit" command improve the current situation?

Thanks to Ali and Cel for defending my honor! with a few exceptions (I did tell Kotrag in no uncertain terms that I had no intention of fighting him - as there was no positive outcome for Morain - just negatives - but that meant I mainly just avoided him.)  I've always tried to avoid logging out just because of a hard fight - in general I logged out because I knew I couldn't commit to the fight - you could probably argue I shouldn't be logged in at all if that is the case - but without doing that I don't think I'd have ever hit enough hours in a month to keep rares / cabal status!

The "Emergency Exit" is an interesting idea - but I'm not sure how I feel about it - as it could be abused to avoid PK - I guess it comes down to how much we are willing to Trust the playerbase not to abuse it.  I don't want to make PK easier - I like FL's PK - I want the game to be more generally accessible.  If I was looking at a change to exiting - I'd say drop you maximum No Quit time to 3 minutes - Lets be honest if you haven't been fighting someone for 3 mins - then that "round" of fighting is probably over - and it should be something that is up to both parties if you want to continue - not something that can be forced upon you.  The other thing to look at is "voiding" or when your character times out - I'll be honest I don't know how long that takes - but again I would suggest it doesn't need to be any longer than 2 - 3 mins.  If someone hasn't entered a command in that time - I think it is fair to assume that they aren't at the PC.

I specifically didn't write a leaving thread because I didn't feel I had the right to complain if i was walking away from the game - Having (unsuprisingly) been tempted back to lurk the forums, and got drawn into a conversation - I think I'll try and right up something a bit more comprehensive about my thoughts as a player that would like (LOVE) to play again - but find it impossible due to certain aspects of the game.

[English lad]

2 hours ago, Lloth said:

Imms are not the only ones who can send notes to all.

Making special "locked corpses" rules brings an ooc influence into PK, which would be very hypocritical of us.

We have, in fact, tried to encourage massive PK in the past. It gets ignored because people don't want to lose. 

As a builder, trivializing gearing makes me sad. What's the point of creating challenges and cool new zones and fights if it's just going to be circumvented because people want that cool equipment to come easy? What, then, is the point of me, or my team, putting in effort in designing "boss fights" with high rewards if the difficulty doesn't match? 

Gearing is one of the few things that I didn't find to much of a problem - now I never got the "Elite" gear from Gear / Faction / Desolation Runs - but I got good enough gear from other places to be able to fight people with that gear, and take the odd piece from them - I think the Builders have done a truly fantastic job with evening out some of the holes in gearing, and making it more possible for single people.  If i was going to make a suggestion around some of the tougher areas it would be to lessen the "Trash" mobs.  If you can kill the Boss, you can kill the Trash on the way to it easily - it just takes a long time.  Time != Difficulty,  If you cut down the Trash mobs in Dischord / Desolation / Magic / Blood / gear by 50% then you would immediately make the areas more accessible to people with limited playtimes - without touching the difficulty at all.

[Fool_Hardy]

2 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

 Imms have to organize it because imms can note to all, note through mobs, post signs in game, put it on the motd, drop some fun items etc etc.  Players dont have the tools to organize events in FL.  I mean I could go on the forum all day but if it isnt imm supported we will get way less bite.  

Sounds like some neat inspirational Herald rework stuff right there.

2 hours ago, Lloth said:

We have, in fact, tried to encourage massive PK in the past. It gets ignored because people don't want to lose. 

Personal Perspective: Lets say I fight the leader of some cabal, I am not likely to win period. But am I satisfied with being killed once? Heck NO. I have to try a different tactic, I want to see will the result be different if the fight happens on my terms. I want a chance to engage this leader prepared. So I re-engage, but that's just fool hardy right? Now this poor Leader has had to kill me twice. OK, but I am not done, I usually push them one more time.

For me three falls in a session is time to quit. If I did this every day, my character is con dead in three weeks. The point is this, some people could care less about the shiny stuff, some seek longevity and have to purchase it through wise decision making. Maybe I wont fight Kortag tonight, maybe I will save myself for Lisko tomorrow.

We assume they want to keep the nice gear, but really gear is easier to get and maintain than consumables. With everyone collecting the same herbs, pills, and potions, a player may spend an hour "farming", and lose everything in a five minute altercation. This probably causes some of the best (read as wisest) Pkers to log out to avoid confrontations where they will lose their consumables and thus the ability to fight the "enemy" they were preparing for when they sought the consumables.

20 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

I don't feel its people lying to themselves. It's being afraid to post on the forums what they really want to say or how they really feel for fear of repercussions from players or imms. That's why we get these PG13 posts that hide what's really going on.

I think there is a lot of truth here. People are afraid to be themselves. As an Aabahranian, I believe every player should feel comfortable bringing their questions and or concerns here to the forum. Will there be ridicule? Of course there will be ridicule! Will there be good Advice? Of course there will be good advice, its right there, between the lines of ridicule. While I encourage everyone to be tactful and helpful, I know that the nature of some is contrary, and I accept it. Be accepting of ridicule, there is often truth hidden between the lines.

[Lloth]

Some people, sure. I can name a few. A few isn't most, though. So many people quit after a few pieces are lost, even calling it a full loot. So suggesting a form of powercreep - which is my personal mission to bear down on and reign back in - is not a logical solution. Neither is removing the risk of PK. 

[Fool_Hardy]

one question occurs to me.

Can a character get a rare item restrung/customized?

If yes, then RP will provide them with the security some seem to desire.

That being said, I am not a fan of security blankets. I believe any security offered to a player will be abused in that they will fail to avoid death at all costs.

Avoiding death could be a legitimate excuse for logging out from a "following the rules" perspective. Maybe we should change this rule.

Avoid death or die for what you believe in, be steadfast and diligent in your efforts to do so.

[Lloth]

Yes, restringing does work on rare items, although it us not encouraged to try on those tough uniques...

[Fool_Hardy]

Forgive my amusement. But that's hilarious.

We just turned "I can not do <whatever>" into "I do not want to put in the effort to have <whatever>".

FTR, you do not have to be logged in, to write a journal, and cut and paste should fit within the time constraints of anyone.

Earn Points, customize your suit, and by all means, join the frolic.

Thanks Lloth.

[Lloth]

I redirect you to the community thread, where I share my approach to stemming that tactic for abuse.

[Zavero]

41 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Forgive my amusement. But that's hilarious.

We just turned "I can not do <whatever>" into "I do not want to put in the effort to have <whatever>".

FTR, you do not have to be logged in, to write a journal, and cut and paste should fit within the time constraints of anyone.

Earn Points, customize your suit, and by all means, join the frolic.

Thanks Lloth.

I write majority of my journals while I am not logged in. I'm not exactly sure what the issue is with this?

[Fool_Hardy]

10 minutes ago, Zavero said:

I write majority of my journals while I am not logged in. I'm not exactly sure what the issue is with this?

No issue bro, I think most people would. The point is that while writing it you are NOT constricted by any in game mechanics. Therefor, the rewards for the journals do not take "in game" hours to reap. Meaning everyone has an avenue to acquire RP rewards regardless of play time restrictions. Journals do not need other players or staff to be online with you. Those rewards can be turned into quasi permanent equipment, which means anyone willing to apply the proper amount of creativity over short periods could effectively stay equipped in decent gear regardless of limited real life hours to play.

But equipment is only the half, consumable collecting as I stated earlier, kills more time.

Some say gold, gold is easy to farm. What we need is better (greater access) consumables for sale.

If we could purchase vials somewhere for instance, yes leaves are better, but not always around. Vials are weaker so you need more of them on hand. Sanc is a MUST in todays world, not a choice. I would purchase vials over surfing to the island most of the time as it gets me back in action faster, but that's just me.

Celerity said the niche is Player Killing, I believe she is correct. But then we gimp the players with less time by making the consumables grow, granting better access to those who have more time. We need consumable merchants to carry the items required for Player Killing. Personally I think you would find it hard to argue that Sanctuary is not the most important, yet its only for sale in a rare form, in a remote locale. As the most important buff for PK, it needs to be more accessible for ALL players.

[Lloth]

There are sanc vials. Higher level than herbs too if I recall.

[Kyzarius]

yeah gathering sanctuary? how is that hard.  there are 6 of them that are easy to get...

[Fool_Hardy]

3 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

yeah gathering sanctuary? how is that hard.  there are 6 of them that are easy to get...

6?

Two south and one north of Miruvhor.

One in blackwatch.

And you said hard. I am talking about time consumption issues to players who may not be as gifted in its abundance as others.

If you have 1 hr a day. Losing 10 minutes gathering sanctuary may be the back breaking straw. Might as well play something else Instead.

A more important question is how would selling vials in town really hurt anyone? More important, why would anyone be opposed to someone buying vials? Easy to get yes, but TIME, is the subject, not difficulty.

It's insane to believe that we can please everyone. But to then say please no one instead, is not the answer. But, we figure hey, it's always been this way. Why change?

I believe we walk a perilous path. But you know it's not like we would notice if a player suddenly leaves, we would certainly notice if we lost three people.

How alone do we need to be before we accept that change may be helpful?

How many more have to leave before we realize that we have failed to keep them instead of blaming their lack of time?

 

[Kyzarius]

I dont care if you buy them sure...though you shoukd take the time to find all of the ones out there.  You can literally farm a dozen in 10 minutes.

2 blackwatch 

the goblin northern passage

gate and altar kashangal

faerie box with the cookie in the swamp.

 

and the black herb spawns and falls, so there is sometimes a dozen just laying there. 

 

sorry this is off topic, lol. 

[Zhurong]

1 gobling north of Miruvhor

1 Kashangal mob south of Miruvhor

1 Kashangal altar

1 Blackwatch mob

1 Blackwatch chest

1 Elium

0-8? near Elven Sea Cay

Buyable vials in Blackwatch

Arena for Glimmering staff (12 charges?)

Quest for other sanc stave (40 charges?)

Cabal staves (these are worse than vials, but still sanc)

 

 

Am I missing anymore?

[Pali]

Guy in the goblin tower has a level 45ish sanc stave with 5 or so charges - very helpful for charmie users when taking on the wight for a glimmering, as the sanc'll often survive the dispels.  Golden and red dragon orbs also give sanc, though the golden is far better than the red (which I feel needs another tick or two of duration - it gives I think 2 ticks max).

[aaa]

There's an orb from one of the goblins in the dark observatory and the tainted ankh from tainted Valley. 

[ajwetton]

4 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

6?

Two south and one north of Miruvhor.

One in blackwatch.

And you said hard. I am talking about time consumption issues to players who may not be as gifted in its abundance as others.

If you have 1 hr a day. Losing 10 minutes gathering sanctuary may be the back breaking straw. Might as well play something else Instead.

A more important question is how would selling vials in town really hurt anyone? More important, why would anyone be opposed to someone buying vials? Easy to get yes, but TIME, is the subject, not difficulty.

It's insane to believe that we can please everyone. But to then say please no one instead, is not the answer. But, we figure hey, it's always been this way. Why change?

I believe we walk a perilous path. But you know it's not like we would notice if a player suddenly leaves, we would certainly notice if we lost three people.

How alone do we need to be before we accept that change may be helpful?

How many more have to leave before we realize that we have failed to keep them instead of blaming their lack of time?

 

The problem with just being able to buy them is that you RUIN the attrition part for say clerics and mages etc who rely on Dispel then damage to be super effective, some classes the main point of them is to run your opponent through consumables... so if I can just buy them with gold which is SUPER easy to obtain then I feel you're really going to hurt some classes.

[Fool_Hardy]

3 hours ago, Zhurong said:

Am I missing anymore?

Thanks Z, I will have to look into the black watch more, evidently.

As for what you missed.

lvl 60 pill (think its a pill, might be an herb) sanc, but your not getting it quickly.

The only purchasable sanctuary I was aware of for non cabal characters is nectar.

 

[f0xx]

3 hours ago, ajwetton said:

The problem with just being able to buy them is that you RUIN the attrition part for say clerics and mages etc who rely on Dispel then damage to be super effective, some classes the main point of them is to run your opponent through consumables... so if I can just buy them with gold which is SUPER easy to obtain then I feel you're really going to hurt some classes.

What a load of BS lol.

The game is balanced around having both sides with sanctuary up. The fact that some classes have to collect a consumable to have that sanctuary is a downside to the said class.

The moment you face an opponent without sanc you gain a *HUGE* advantage. Some classes have tools to rid their opponents of their sancs. And since such classes exist, there are ways to counter them. And there are ways to counter the counter.

How well you counter the dispel, and how well you counter the counter to dispel, depends entirely on your, and your enemy's skill cap.

 

[ajwetton]

3 minutes ago, f0xx said:

What a load of BS lol.

The game is balanced around having both sides with sanctuary up. The fact that some classes have to collect a consumable to have that sanctuary is a downside to the said class.

Some classes have tools to rid their opponents of their sancs. And since such classes exist, there are ways to counter them. And there are ways to counter the counter.

How well you counter the dispel, and how well you counter the counter to dispel, depends entirely on your, and your enemy's skill cap.

 

You have your opinion I have mine foxx, nice to see your as charming as ever.  My opinion on it isnt' BS.   youknow what im not even gonna respnod more because apparently F0XX knows everything and DAMN everyone elses thoughts. You know what what the hell lets just give everyone every spell in the game so no one has to farm anything or work for anything. lets make verything purchaseable from a shop and lets make everyone just an IMM class with every spell in the game that'll fix everything.

 

This game needs less consumables not more ways to get more consumables. 

[f0xx]

32 minutes ago, ajwetton said:

This game needs less consumables not more ways to get more consumables. 

That's a perfectly fine statement and I agree with it completely.

But you must understand that every single class out there absolutely NEEDS sanctuary in order to compete. Without sanctuary, you die. Simple as that.

If you want to get rid of sanc consumables, I am fine with that. But if you want to do that and keep the variety in the game, then you need to give all those classes that don't have the sanc spell, an ability that corresponds to it.

It's really funny that people try to make it out that just because some characters can put their sanc back up when you dispel it, it's some huge advantage. No mate, it's the other way around - the characters that have ways of removing sanctuary have huge advantage. You, whether you rely on consumables or on your own abilities, must be constantly on a watch and expecting that dispel/haymaker/call void. How fast you react to the sanc dropping ability defines how skilled you are.

 

32 minutes ago, ajwetton said:

You have your opinion I have mine foxx. My opinion on it isnt' BS.

You can have whatever opinion you want as long as you keep it to yourself. Reality will not change based on your opinion, so when you come out in the open and claim that your opinion is the right one, then we have an argument.

Just like I had an argument with some guy the other day. He wanted to sell some special and very expensive water to a relative of mine who has cancer. This guy, for example, had an opinion that his water would cure my relative if he drank 6 liters of it each day.

[Lloth]

@Fool_Hardy

 

You can buy sanc consumables. I believe it is only level 35, but it is at least better than the vials you can get (goodwife, goblin, etc.). Alternatively you can turn those basic vials into pills if quaffing isn't your thing.

[Lloth]

@f0xx @ajwetton

That's enough. Keep it civil and polite, or keep it to yourselves. 

[Zhurong]

19 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Thanks Z, I will have to look into the black watch more, evidently.

As for what you missed.

lvl 60 pill (think its a pill, might be an herb) sanc, but your not getting it quickly.

The only purchasable sanctuary I was aware of for non cabal characters is nectar.

 

Search around the Southern end of Blackwatch for purchasable vials. They're quite nice, but expensive.