Fool_Hardy Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Wade said: The +defense items are almost always out of stock. Monks cowl, warbanner. Meat kleefer, ancient scepter are two others. Fel Charm isn't even rare. Edit: Spiked elven shield. Object 'elven shield arms spiked' is type armor, material steel. Extra flags: socketable. Weight is 10, value is 50, level is 50. Armor class is 9 pierce, 12 bash, 8 slash, and 12 vs. magic. Can be socketed. Affects ac by -10. Affects hitroll by 2. Affects dodge by 2. Bottom line, things change, thank the good spirits some of us still Identify, even if we KNOW the game well. Checkered shield fairly common in that one type of lockbox. Spoked wheels aren't limited in number. Think of these as start up kits until those other items come around. Sub-rant, avert your eyes. But, my arrows! Yeah, yeah. Bows should be -defense, beyond the lack of shield AC bonuses. Bow should severely decrease two handed, and slightly decrease parry. You guys are lucky the staff cares if your happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 50 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said: You guys are lucky the staff cares if your happy. No, only a bad staff doesn't care if the players are happy. What makes a good staff is that they care about keeping the players happy, but they also manage to be the adults in the room full of children and not bend over backwards every time someone throws a tantrum - it's keeping the kids generally happy as a group that is the goal, not keeping every single one happy at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmm Coffee Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said: Bows should be -defense, beyond the lack of shield AC bonuses. Bow should severely decrease two handed, and slightly decrease parry. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tantangel Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I honestly haven't read it anywhere, but why was it that for mages parry was capped at 105, whilst melee is still at 110 if they manage it? I haven't searched too hard for the answer, but I suspect it has something to do with damage output from a mage is much higher depending on several factors along with it switching from dependency on DEX and now it's dependent upon STR. I don't think I ever really had it passed 105 on any mage myself, but was more curious since I wasn't playing the game during that time period to have it changed. There's quite a few items that aren't in circulation hardly ever. Once I get to 50, I pretty much give up on looking for anything that requires a group to get because there's so seldom a group on to play with, add in alignment restrictions and it makes it fewer. Even many items that are easy to get but are decent seem to be missing 90% of the time too. There are quite a few substitutes that at least kind of compare to one another, but there are more perks in one than the other. IE: Ancient Banner vs Banner of Ralardia. Having the bonus +defenses on the Banner of Ralardia edges out the the very minimal +2 hitgain boost and the +1 hitroll is nice, but I'll take the bonus saves to spells. And the drastic difficulty spike between getting either one is ridiculous. I've gotten the banner of Ralardia at 30 before without much effort. Despite anything that anyone says it's about your tactics and not armor, that's rather deceiving to returning and new players alike. In some cases that is true, but more so it depends upon what class you're fighting as well. If a character has 70 hit/dam it may have diminishing return on it, but because of such a high hitroll, a mage will have a hard time competing since their one defense is reliant upon their strength, parry for me at least is a joke. Even right now, I've noticed that parry seems to seldom work as a mage versus varying MOBs unless they're a much lower level than you and even then only if they're ranking MOBs. But when it comes to cutting down the damage from a mage (since magic can't really be blocked by skill defenses), it takes 4 pieces of armor to make ***OBLITERATES*** become a DISMEMBER or less at times. That's about the only time tactics kick in though, is when you can level the playing field. I think as time has gone on, we've gotten better about balancing it and making it so it's not completely one sided like it had been at the beginning, but even now you're still going to see a few people who are decked to the point that you may as well just join them than be an enemy because they managed to get very key EQ in the game to make it easier for them. Add in the ease of which a person can paralyze the other, it comes down to whether you can take the 200-300 HP per round they could take from you or more in some cases and survive. About the only thing that can take the character down at that point is either someone playing a class that's their bane, and even then the player behind said class usually has to know how to do it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Isnt parry reliant on dex, and dodge on strength? It was switched at one point, but reverted back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 18 minutes ago, Kyzarius said: Isnt parry reliant on dex, and dodge on strength? It was switched at one point, but reverted back. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted August 10, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I still think it's stupid. If it were entirely up to me, I'd give mages dodge, (not parry) and change it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 It makes more sense, but the game is balanced in choosing the right weapon that your opponent doesn't knows. I think this mechanic is good, as involves some player skill. 53 minutes ago, Kyzarius said: Isnt parry reliant on dex, and dodge on strength? Well from our access, parry was based equally on STR and DEX, and dodge on neither. Which allowed all races elfs/giants to parry about the same. The only penalized were those who had a lower sum of STR+DEX like gnomes. I think you are referring to Two-handed, which was 2xSTR + DEX and thus more based on STR, and that was changed according to Morl to Dex. Which makes sense, because giants warriors use 2 weapons while PAL, DK and BLM use two handed. And dodge wasn't based on STR or DEX, thankfully for gnomes. But, this was probably all changed, several times, and you can't change your racial stats, so it's mostly irrelevant. @Wade The Wheel floater from the monks, give +2 parry. Object 'embossed leather bracer arena' is type armor, material leather. Extra flags: socketable. Weight is 1, value is 690, level is 7. Armor class is 2 pierce, 4 bash, 4 slash, and 2 vs. magic. Can be socketed. Affects parry by 1. Affects savingspell by -1. Object 'pair black leather stranglers gloves !21804!' is type armor, material leather. Extra flags: nonmetal socketable. Weight is 0.5, value is 2, level is 30. Armor class is 11 pierce, 9 bash, 10 slash, and 8 vs. magic. Can be socketed. Affects damroll by 2. Affects dex by 2. Affects savingmaled by -5. Affects strangle by 2. Affects hand to hand by 1. Affects first parry by 2. Affects parry by 2. Affects savingspell by -2. Affects hitroll by 1. Rare item. Rumor has it that you can find it in Blissful Falls. Object 'commander's commander rapier' is type weapon, material silver. Extra flags: hum antievil antineutral. Weight is 4, value is 3, level is 50. Weapon type is sword. Damage is 5d8 (average 22). Affects parry by 5. Unique item. Citadel centaur camp commander. Object 'sun black medallion' is type jewelry, material bronze. Extra flags: glow hum antigood psienhance. Weight is 3, value is 3, level is 40. Affects damroll by 3. Affects parry by 2. Affects savingbreath by -4. Rare item. Maaekar Keep of Myran Dammel 12-06-2016 Object 'sinister fel charm socket' is type socket, material fel. Extra flags: nonmetal burnproof. Weight is 0, value is 100, level is 40. Weapon only socket. Affects parry by 1. Affects dodge by 1. Phum the Elder, Fourth Object 'Thunderstick' is type ranged, material steel. Extra flags: glow hum magic. Weight is 10, value is 2, level is 35. Can be used to fire: small lead balls. Has accuracy of: 40%, and rate of fire: 1 Flags: longrange Affects dex by -1. Affects parry by 2. Affects two handed by 3. Rare item. First Mate, Waterfall, 2013. Object 'rope armwraps' is type armor, material rope. Extra flags: nonmetal. Weight is 1, value is 10, level is 45. Armor class is 10 pierce, 10 bash, 6 slash, and 0 vs. magic. Affects hitroll by 3. Affects str by 1. Affects dodge by 1. Affects two handed by 1. Affects parry by 1. Rare item. Ting, The Rope-Fist Champion, in in Gauntlet area of Willow Palm. 28-04-2015 Object 'sage bead' is type socket, material seed. Extra flags: nonmetal meltdrop burnproof. Weight is 0, value is 3, level is 40. Armor and Weapon socket. Adds following to extra flags: magic burnproof Affects dodge by 1. Affects parry by 1. Unique item. Object 'Bracelet Everlasting Hatred' is type armor, material hatred. Extra flags: glow hum burnproof. Weight is 1, value is 2, level is 60. Armor class is 12 pierce, 6 bash, 14 slash, and 10 vs. magic. Affects damroll by 4. Affects hitroll by -1. Affects hp by 5. Affects parry by 2. Affects dodge by 2. Unique item. Seilyth, Lord Talex's daughter. Tombs. East side. NEW 06-01-2012 Object 'hilt ward crystal' is type socket, material crystal. Extra flags: glow magic. Weight is 6, value is 10, level is 40. Weapon only socket. Adds following to extra flags: bless Affects ac by -10. Affects parry by 1. Affects savingmaled by -2. Rare item. Master of magic, Tower of magic. And there are lots of other that also aid parry. But you can get 104% without rares (100%), which should be the same as 105% code wise. Unless Morl specifically changed it to take into account round down errors. Which he might, since Lloth told us they changed defenses. I partially suspect that they made 100+% more effective, else why cap mages to 105% ? It's not like moving your chance to parry by +5% (at 110%) is that great. It's +50 HP on a 1000 HP mage. Which can be gotten with 1 single item, vs the quantity of items needed to attain 110%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted August 10, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 You make a lot of assumptions @mya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 56 minutes ago, mya said: And there are lots of other that also aid parry. But you can get 104% without rares (100%), which should be the same as 105% code wise. Unless Morl specifically changed it to take into account round down errors. Which he might, since Lloth told us they changed defenses. I partially suspect that they made 100+% more effective, else why cap mages to 105% ? It's not like moving your chance to parry by +5% (at 110%) is that great. It's +50 HP on a 1000 HP mage. Which can be gotten with 1 single item, vs the quantity of items needed to attain 110%. I don't believe any of this is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool_Hardy Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, Lloth said: I don't believe any of this is accurate. two embossed bracers not rare 102% Milleu Fell charm on a non rare weapon. 103% Demon Pit not sure where she got 104 not rare. But, rare is common these days. rope arm guards (edit: or was it the serpent bracers? Still asleep.) or spoked wheel (willow palm) and the mage is capped. 105% Personally, and I know people disagree. The 115% defense on a warrior is ridiculously effective. Bested a Warmaster in a duel, and he disarmed and blinded me the first round. Beat him down with my fists, Unlike other high numbers, I believe +% does NOT have diminishing returns. I see capping mages parry as a balance trick, and everyone cries foul. But, I pray this same trick infests other areas. Wait until rogue dodge gets capped. Food for thought, what if we offer gnomes immunity to skill caps? Would this not aid in balancing a difficult race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted August 10, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 @Fool_Hardy - Lloth quoted piece of her long reply that had nothing to do with "how to reach 104% in parry", rather, how it would affect the skill. Please read his post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool_Hardy Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Wait for it, still looking at the steam coming off this first cup. Bet it makes sense by cup number three. Coffee, sweet nectar of life. We really should give the cup of coffee in game a nice affect. Like: spell Alert: Parry modified by 1, Dodge modified by 1, Shield Block modified by 1, Two handed modified by 1. MMM coffee. Edit: By the way @Erelei, +1 to mages dodging instead of parrying. Disarm takes away one defense from a melee, but all defenses from a mage. See I am waking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Make dancing blades do random critical strikes and mages are fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool_Hardy Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Or... Invokers Dodge even after you disarm their mana filled staff. Battle Mages Shield Block, at least 2 shields in game are created for this class. Necromancers Parry, can curse the weapons. Cap them all accordingly. Outside the Box I know. I'm going back to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, mya said: giants warriors use 2 weapons while PAL, DK and BLM use two handed. Wut.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Fool_Hardy said: Invokers Dodge even after you disarm their mana filled staff. Oh I missed this one, giving dodge to mages would be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Tantangel said: why was it that for mages parry was capped at 105, whilst melee is still at 110 if they manage it? Because of few reasons mate. Firstly, mages do not gain anything from hit dam, so it's easier for them to hoard items which buff their AC to amounts unimaginable for any melee. Couple that with parry at 110% and you can end up in some pretty ridiculous situations, where you get outmeleed by an invoker. Secondly, it just makes no sense that a mage can parry as good as melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magick Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Post padding so you hit 10K tonight, Foxx? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tantangel Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, f0xx said: Because of few reasons mate. Firstly, mages do not gain anything from hit dam, so it's easier for them to hoard items which buff their AC to amounts unimaginable for any melee. Couple that with parry at 110% and you can end up in some pretty ridiculous situations, where you get outmeleed by an invoker. Secondly, it just makes no sense that a mage can parry as good as melee. Okay, that makes sense for that time period at least. Couldn't there be a way where it could be written in code to prevent mages from getting a super high hit/dam though, with the exception of Clerics? The most I have had was roughly 33/27 as a mage. And if it were written in the code as well (like how Elves and Drows learn anatomies faster as Blademasters), couldn't they just be made to parry 20% less than a melee? I'm fine with not being able to match melee defenses in parry, but when my parry is at 100+% I have gone 5+ rounds not being able to parry anything. Add in a Warrior during trips who sees you get hit instead of him, rescue lags you for 2 rounds and if you're not decked in +HP or at least a very high base HP, you're squishy so hopefully nothing else aggros on you as well going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Criminal Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 It comes up they they shouldn't be able to parry as good as melee classes while they already can't hit, have limited weapon choices, no blind fighting, no enhanced damage and in most cases no additional attacks. Who cares if a mage gets disarmed, 'they can't parry anways'. Has it occurred to anyone that a mage whom is decked to slaughter melee classes will himself be slaughtered by other mage classes? I say remove the cap to mages parry and if you wanna see an easy fix to the +defense eq add an additional +5 svs vs spell and +20ac to each piece. Now they have some choices to make where the +defense is either worth the ac and saves hit or it isn't. The code has been balanced since waaay back, its the shiny new equipment that's throwing the balances off and forcing code caps where they really aren't needed. Yings need yangs UC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Unknown Criminal said: I say... I say you have no idea what you are talking about bruh... The only cap in defences that needs to be removed is in hybrids. Right, @Erelei? No Idea what THAT was implemented at all, to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Criminal Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Hybrids got capped too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Yeah, which makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 everything is nerfed to make melees hit harder and faster and classes that require some skill aside from "stack mah hit/dam" to suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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