Trick Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Wade said: I don't recall playing the victim. My initial statement was to show that you can change a few words and Lloths stance is a 180 of itself. Inflation is an okay reason for not wanting some shopkeepers kill able, but claiming that longer lasting characters have more gold so it's unfair to new characters? You can't have that stance on gold, but think Rp points are fine. You've assumed I have a stance on either, I don't. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. Alright. You gotta admit that there has been a great deal of complaints recently. Specifically about people not getting what they want fast enough. If that's not your stance, then my bad. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 From a game-design perspective, there is no inherent contradiction in treating different player resources differently in terms of how they are gained and banked over time, especially if they are supposed to be gained and used in distinct ways. Gold is an IC item, an object within the world that your character accrues as you find it, pick it up, and use it as currency in a variety of settings. RP points are not an IC item but an OOC character stat, rewarded for character investment through work and action, and are only used in a very specific market for rewards that cannot be obtained any other way - they are more like the rewards points on your credit card than they are like the money in your account. There's no hypocrisy in saying that the staff wants these to bank differently over time, or that one is banking too much while the other is where they want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Wade said: I don't recall playing the victim. My initial statement was to show that you can change a few words and Lloths stance is a 180 of itself. Inflation is an okay reason for not wanting some shopkeepers kill able, but claiming that longer lasting characters have more gold so it's unfair to new characters? You can't have that stance on gold, but think Rp points are fine. You've assumed I have a stance on either, I don't. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. That only works if I stated that RP and gold are interchangeable. I did not. Because they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I am going to say this once, and only once. So @Fireman and @Wade should both listen up. I have let this thread continue, despite being well outside the boundaries of acceptable banter and discussion (especially the language from Fireman) as it's been brought up that there's been too much moderation of the forum lately, between bans and thread locks. However. If I see flaming again from you guys, you're done. Behave like adults. Disagreements can be had without swearing or attacking the person, or making insinuations about what another person wants or expects. Ad Hominem is a piss poor way to try and win a debate, anyway. To everyone else: The same goes. There's a lot of crap being flung in the forums lately. And you know, for a community that describes itself as getting older... as maturing... with family and kids at home.. it's really disappointing to see. For all of the growing up everyone has done over the two decades this game has been around, sometimes I swear nobody has aged at all. Still bickering like children. If you have a disagreement with somebody, work it out like adults. Amiable conversation, PMs if you need to. Ain't nobody wanna go reading flame wars. If you're not able to do that, just close your eyes, count to 10, and forget about the post. Failing that as well.... I can just say now that there won't be leniency. I'm done caring if I am vilified for doing my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Sometimes you gotta say what everyone is thinking, my dude. Even if its not the most polite way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 And sometimes I gotta just hide post and ban, my dude. Even if it's not the most popular way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Lloth is female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, Mali said: Lloth is female. What's that have to do with the price of tea in China? 1 minute ago, Lloth said: And sometimes I gotta just hide post and ban, my dude. Even if it's not the most popular way. Do what you gotta do. I am frustrated with the constant whining and self-entitlement of some of the players. Its not even constructive complaints. Its whining for the sake of whining because they aren't getting what they want. Its a tantrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'm not here to debate it. I'm here to warn that if it happens anymore, it will be met with banning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Looks female to me You can tell by the lack of tibial spurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted June 19, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 37 minutes ago, Lloth said: Ain't nobody wanna go reading flame wars. You obviously don't know what I do during my free time (all 20 minutes of it) when I get home from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Correction: ain't nobody important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted June 19, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I can ban you - remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Haters gonna hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Criminal Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Fireman said: Okay.. I'm about fed up with this bullshit. Listen. Wade, UC, Egreir or whoever the duck else that is bitching about not getting shit or how its unfair that people that have dedicated time and energy to something, get over your self-entitled, give me everything bulletin. You want to have a character with 600 RP points, a few edges, custom gear, a plot revolving around them, tattoos, cabal leader? THEN WORK FOR IT. I did it. F0xx did it. Anume did it. Kyzarius did it. Ilthrias's player did it and many more. WoW, Destiny, LoL, or any RPG/ACTION/ADVENTURE has a period of progression. You get get skill unlocks, you get better armor, weapons, talents, modifications, characters, higher HP, higher stats, everything.. Hell, even Call of Duty has it. Stop being a whiny, complaining child. This "gimme gimme gimme" attitude is getting ducking old. Don't like FL? Buh bye. I can easily play this game with 3-4 people and have just as much fun without having to read a thread about your whiny pass. Jesus Christ.. its like explaining shins to a five year old. Literally arguing or itching just for the sake of it. I dont understand why 'some people' get so angry when one or two people want to express their opinions about something that they are interested in... What bullshit are you fed up about? (Your community) of players are just talking on a forum and expressing a few of their opinions and thoughts, is it really necessary to jump down their throats because their personal opinions and thoughts arent the same as yours? Come on now You list me as 'bitching' about something being unfair when ive never said anything of the sort. I never said edges were unfair, I never said custom gear was unfair, I never said a cabaled char vs a non cabaled char was unfair, I never said earning RP points to get bonuses was unfair, I never said silent PK was unfair. Im generally happy for anyone who can get bonuses of those sorts because they take time and dedication Listen. Fireman, f0xx or whomever else that decides its necessary to get harsh with people because 'they are different', go join a Christian church and move into a Muslim neighborhood. Dont like hearing personal opinions that arent the same as yours? Buh bye, stop reading a public forum. Your own thoughts and opinions must be on some incredibly shaky ground, why else would you go into such a belittling rant... And do you really wanna play a massive online multi player game with only 3-4 people who see things your way? Oh please, stroke my RP sword so I can get a reward, then ill stroke yours. Me personally, id rather have 100 people playing whom all thought my opinions were crap, at least that way id have 100 new people to take my frustrations out on Now do yourself and everyone else a favor, stop telling people to leave! Most of us are sick of looking at the same 3-4 faces, not that they arent wanted or appreciated, but our diversity and growth as a community is stymied because of it. UC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmusdorn Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Unknown Criminal said: I dont understand why 'some people' get so angry when one or two people want to express their opinions about something that they are interested in... What bullshit are you fed up about? (Your community) of players are just talking on a forum and expressing a few of their opinions and thoughts, is it really necessary to jump down their throats because their personal opinions and thoughts arent the same as yours? Come on now You list me as 'bitching' about something being unfair when ive never said anything of the sort. I never said edges were unfair, I never said custom gear was unfair, I never said a cabaled char vs a non cabaled char was unfair, I never said earning RP points to get bonuses was unfair, I never said silent PK was unfair. Im generally happy for anyone who can get bonuses of those sorts because they take time and dedication Listen. Fireman, f0xx or whomever else that decides its necessary to get harsh with people because 'they are different', go join a Christian church and move into a Muslim neighborhood. Dont like hearing personal opinions that arent the same as yours? Buh bye, stop reading a public forum. Your own thoughts and opinions must be on some incredibly shaky ground, why else would you go into such a belittling rant... And do you really wanna play a massive online multi player game with only 3-4 people who see things your way? Oh please, stroke my RP sword so I can get a reward, then ill stroke yours. Me personally, id rather have 100 people playing whom all thought my opinions were crap, at least that way id have 100 new people to take my frustrations out on Now do yourself and everyone else a favor, stop telling people to leave! Most of us are sick of looking at the same 3-4 faces, not that they arent wanted or appreciated, but our diversity and growth as a community is stymied because of it. UC So that being said... I'm still waiting for suggestions that will bring (new) people to this game. And don't get me wrong, we are compiling the stuff we think is great from other threads to see what we can implement but at the moment this focus on RP points is unhelpful (if finding new people is the goal here) as RP points realistically are end game content for the most part. Again, don't get me wrong, you can earn unlimited rp points at level 1 - its just not realistic as we all rank to 50 in a course of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 39 minutes ago, Unknown Criminal said: I dont understand why 'some people' get so angry when one or two people want to express their opinions about something that they are interested in... What bullshit are you fed up about? (Your community) of players are just talking on a forum and expressing a few of their opinions and thoughts, is it really necessary to jump down their throats because their personal opinions and thoughts arent the same as yours? Come on now You list me as 'bitching' about something being unfair when ive never said anything of the sort. I never said edges were unfair, I never said custom gear was unfair, I never said a cabaled char vs a non cabaled char was unfair, I never said earning RP points to get bonuses was unfair, I never said silent PK was unfair. Im generally happy for anyone who can get bonuses of those sorts because they take time and dedication Listen. Fireman, f0xx or whomever else that decides its necessary to get harsh with people because 'they are different', go join a Christian church and move into a Muslim neighborhood. Dont like hearing personal opinions that arent the same as yours? Buh bye, stop reading a public forum. Your own thoughts and opinions must be on some incredibly shaky ground, why else would you go into such a belittling rant... And do you really wanna play a massive online multi player game with only 3-4 people who see things your way? Oh please, stroke my RP sword so I can get a reward, then ill stroke yours. Me personally, id rather have 100 people playing whom all thought my opinions were crap, at least that way id have 100 new people to take my frustrations out on Now do yourself and everyone else a favor, stop telling people to leave! Most of us are sick of looking at the same 3-4 faces, not that they arent wanted or appreciated, but our diversity and growth as a community is stymied because of it. UC The bullshit I am fed up with:("you" is used in a general sense) Making suggestions that are designed to benefit you with the guise of benefiting newer players. IE: Increasing leveling speed. Changing RP points because you don't want to dedicate time to a character and earn them. Complaining that RP points are only feeding fake encounters when in fact their inception has greatly INCREASED the quantity AND quality of RP. The "victim-card" that some of the lesser skilled PKers are trying to wave around against veteran players. This concept that there is a hoarding of information when there clearly isn't. There's a wiki. Add to it if you want. The self-entitlement that some players are exhibiting by wanting everything the moment they roll the character without putting in ANY effort. Just to name a few. I don't mind personal opinions. I don't even mind having a discussion based around the direction or improvement of the game. What I DO mind is when someone presents an idea that is only presented so that they alone can benefit OR when they present an idea, are given ample evidence as to why it is fine the way it is, but still continues to argue because they refuse to see it the other way. This also goes the other direction as well, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said: I never said earning RP points to get bonuses was unfair Dude, really....... You argued with me that buying a titanium fullplate's stats for ~250 RP is too much. You say that you feel "used" when someone tries to RP with you, because that would gain them RP points, which in turn would buy them edges, you claimed that pinns are out "hunting" freshly pinned "edgeless" chars..... And then you are like.... meh, I never complained. That's like watching a certain player say he doesn't use wimpy, and then in the PK log he posts there are 8 times when wimpy saves his arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Criminal Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 56 minutes ago, f0xx said: Dude, really....... You argued with me that buying a titanium fullplate's stats for ~250 RP is too much. You say that you feel "used" when someone tries to RP with you, because that would gain them RP points, which in turn would buy them edges, you claimed that pinns are out "hunting" freshly pinned "edgeless" chars..... And then you are like.... meh, I never complained. That's like watching a certain player say he doesn't use wimpy, and then in the PK log he posts there are 8 times when wimpy saves his arse. I wasnt complaining at all, I was stating how 'i felt' when I thought someone was fake rp'ing with me, that they are only doing it for the points. I can see fake rp coming a mile away which I explained in a previous post I also 'stated' that I would rank a fresh 50 (im still trying classes out) and out of nowhere a super eq'ed, cabaled edged up char would try to steamroll me out of nowhere. Im not mad about this, I giggled as I ran away. This is a PK mud and everyone tries to kill everyone, not everything that gets pointed out has a complaint attached to it And I always use wimpy, its set to its highest available amount. Hell, ill even put on a bunch of HP gear, set my wimpy higher then go back to my normal eq, lol. I absolutely LOVE being a pain in the ass to kill with my main chars and it was sooo funny that I got called out on it in game IN CHAR a week ago. Donovan tell you "You fight just like xxx, and xxx, and xxx....", lmao 2 hours ago, Fireman said: The bullshit I am fed up with:("you" is used in a general sense) Making suggestions that are designed to benefit you with the guise of benefiting newer players. IE: Increasing leveling speed. Changing RP points because you don't want to dedicate time to a character and earn them. Complaining that RP points are only feeding fake encounters when in fact their inception has greatly INCREASED the quantity AND quality of RP. The "victim-card" that some of the lesser skilled PKers are trying to wave around against veteran players. This concept that there is a hoarding of information when there clearly isn't. There's a wiki. Add to it if you want. The self-entitlement that some players are exhibiting by wanting everything the moment they roll the character without putting in ANY effort. Just to name a few. I don't mind personal opinions. I don't even mind having a discussion based around the direction or improvement of the game. What I DO mind is when someone presents an idea that is only presented so that they alone can benefit OR when they present an idea, are given ample evidence as to why it is fine the way it is, but still continues to argue because they refuse to see it the other way. This also goes the other direction as well, obviously. I totally hear ya leveling speed does NOT need to be increased. I think RP points should be a player award, not a character though. Im glad you and others enjoy the RP encounters more of late, ive even been awarded for other people posting logs myself. What (i feel) happening to ME is that my char has x amount of RP points, I only need x amount more to purchase x edge, who can I talk to in order to get my remaining points so that I can make that purchase? Knawmean? I can feel people digging for a few extra points, its not a bad thing, but like I said in a previous post I feel like im getting used. Victims will be victims, the top dogs kick my can all around the lands. The only way ill get better is if I continue to piss in their yards I dont think anyone hordes information, I do know there are quest answers that people wont know unless they make those trips and screen record the leader. Self entitlement is a pay to play mindset, alot of people these days just purchase upgrades for their apps and games so that they dont have to work for them. Thanks for the breakdown Fireman UC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmusdorn Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said: Im glad you and others enjoy the RP encounters more of late, ive even been awarded for other people posting logs myself. What (i feel) happening to ME is that my char has x amount of RP points, I only need x amount more to purchase x edge, who can I talk to in order to get my remaining points so that I can make that purchase? Knawmean? I can feel people digging for a few extra points, its not a bad thing, but like I said in a previous post I feel like im getting used. This I am most confused about... When a log is issued on the forum - all parties (normally, depending on a couple of things) will always get the same points. If Kotrag RP's with Ivesianna, and Kotrag never submits a log but Ivesianna does... They both get the award... How are you getting used? The system is designed so you BOTH benefit.. Why would one of you hold back on any RP encounter? Thats literally like 75% of the entire game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Criminal Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said: This I am most confused about... When a log is issued on the forum - all parties (normally, depending on a couple of things) will always get the same points. If Kotrag RP's with Ivesianna, and Kotrag never submits a log but Ivesianna does... They both get the award... How are you getting used? The system is designed so you BOTH benefit.. Why would one of you hold back on any RP encounter? Thats literally like 75% of the entire game.... It's not that I wouldn't receive a bonus, the system of RP submission is balanced for everyone where anyone can accumulate RP points until the sun comes home. All ive been stating was that I dont like someone trying to talk to me for the sole purpose of accumulating the points, a conversation out of thin air from someone I've never interacted with. I role play all the time and if I receive a bonus for doing it that's fantastic, however, I don't want to be in a position when I'm role playing strictly for the points because I'm close to a purchase. That's is what some people are doing, forced RP encounters for the sake of a bonus above and beyond the experience of the actual encounter itself Im not whining about anything, im not saying gimmie gimmie gimmie, im not crying foul. I'm just pointing something out because it irked my attention and that I like pointing things out that irk me, lol UC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool_Hardy Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 If I had a problem with RP fishing, I would have to ask myself the following questions. So does it trouble you that THEY are about to get something? No Does it trouble you that THEY have something they seek? No Does it trouble you that THEY may become somehow better by interacting with you? A little Does it trouble you that your Kindly Character aids their malevolent character through interaction? Oh Hell F*@k Yeah! Or does it trouble you that THEY are actively seeking Role Play in a Role Play enforced game while you are not? Likely most of all. But, I am an old fool whose handle has already been turned, so I think outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 The best analogy I could think of was this. It's the difference between getting hit on at the bar by a stranger and getting hit on by a prostitute at a brothel. Sure, both of then might be doing it because they want to but the doubt that the prostitute is only doing it for the money cheapens the whole experience. Knowing that people are potentially interacting with you to farm points cheapens the whole interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Haha that is the biggest load of bullshit i habe ever read man. I mean that with all the love i would show any of my friends. But man. Get off it. People get rp points, and no they arent whores lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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