The current state of the forum

[aaa]

Come on man, I'm telling you my perspective and my feelings. 

You can't say the way I view or how I feel about something is bullshit because you dont agree or it doesn't happen  to you. 

I wish I could jump on the rp point bandwagon but it feels so fake and disjointed, having to go through the forum to post logs is so immersion breaking. 

I really appreciate what @Ulmusdorn does but the workload is obviously too much because the turn around time is pretty bad which adds to the disjointed feeling. 

[Kyzarius]

Yes I can, thats my perspective and opinion. 

You are attacking a system because it rewards people for participating in the rp side of the game.

And you passively called us all whores.

If you dont like it, then dont post logs.  

[Pali]

Just about everything anyone does in any context can be framed as being done for their own benefit or gain.  I donate to the ACLU, yet even such charitable donations can be viewed as me selfishly supporting them because they help defend legal rights I support and may need to rely on one day, or simply that I support them because it makes me feel good to do so.  You could say that I'm friends with my bartenders because it gets me free drinks, that I'm friends with my coworkers because it makes the day more pleasant for me, that I'm nice to customers because it gets more business for the store.

 

And you would be right in each case.  But you'd also be wrong, because while those motivations certainly exist and almost certainly have some influence on my behavior, they do not tell the whole story.  On my last characters, did the potential rewards influence my decision to write out detailed histories and journals?  You bet they did.  Were those potential rewards all I cared about while writing them?  Not on your life, and my characters were better for having created them.

 

Let's stop pretending that selfish motivations are, by their nature, "bad".  They aren't.  Selfish motivations only become bad when the person becomes exploitative in pursuing them.  If my selfishness makes me a decent guy to be around, keeps me well-liked by the community, and harms no one, what is wrong with me being selfish? Edit: and the natural corollary is: if my being selfish makes my characters deeper, more fleshed out, and more interesting to interact with... why is that bad?

[Celerity]

If you want to get philosophical about it...is it even possible to be willfully selfless? Every voluntary action you make can be ultimately tied to some selfish goal and probably every involuntary one as well, as long as you took the action. Hmm.

[Manual Labour]

Well said Pali and Celerity. 

Anyone else find it ironic that the same people who are asking not to be judged for their opinions, feelings and motives claim they can tell, with 100% accuracy I might add, when someone else is RPing organically or only for RP points to buy PK power ups. 

[aaa]

8 minutes ago, Manual Labour said:

Well said Pali and Celerity. 

Anyone else find it ironic that the same people who are asking not to be judged for their opinions, feelings and motives claim they can tell, with 100% accuracy I might add, when someone else is RPing organically or only for RP points to buy PK power ups. 

I dont recall claiming that at all. 

[Pali]

16 minutes ago, Wade said:

I dont recall claiming that at all. 

Then to use your analogy, what is wrong with the prostitute (RP point seeker), if you are both just there for the sex (RP), especially since the pay (RP points) doesn't come out of your wallet (edit: hell, you're getting paid too)?  You say it cheapens the experience, but someone actively trying to earn RP points is going to have a strong incentive to maintain a strong game so they can keep getting them, so I have to wonder how they make things worse than when there was no incentive at all.  This strikes me as seeking a level of gaming purity and devotion from other players that is not realistic - a basic truth of psychology is that behavior needs to be rewarded if it is to be encouraged, and failing to reward behavior often causes the subject to spend it's time acting in other ways that do provide rewards (such as focusing more on PK than RP).

[Erelei]

Theres a few ways to fix the issue that "ousts a character" to who they played in the past by posting on the forum. I can allow account linking and allow you to create and link an account for every character you create (imms wouldn't be able to see these links unless they were admins and even then, I can disable that unless otherwise needed) and you can post anonymously that way. 

 

Another way to do this is to allow anonymous posting- but then that would essentially be set to one forum and you couldn't edit your posts and you'd have to send a note in game if you don't see an award to see if it was taken care of. I could remove the post hash for this forum (which identifies the poster) so it'd be anonymous to immortals too.

 

What would everyone prefer here?

[Erelei]

For what it's worth (and this is really directed to @Mali) I love the RP that a lot of you push out. I don't understand why anonymous posting further to immortals would be something you want. When I see genuine RP I immediately think of a few players and usually I'm right- but wouldn't you want imms to know what you played before for the sake of how awesome it was before your current character?

 

[Mali]

Well, as much as I love to direct my angst towards your heavenly throne, I admit that my personal IC roleplay becomes more challenged when I realize that I play the character. Engaging in any OOC stuff whether it is here on the forum or on other media breaks the link for me. So I am seeking a level of immersion in game that by its nature does not link me to past characters ... even to myself... on the forum or any other media. I like to experience the game fresh every time in a child-like state of identity awareness. 

[Pali]

15 minutes ago, Mali said:

I like to experience the game fresh every time in a child-like state of identity awareness. 

Finding weed really shouldn't be that hard, dude.  

[Ulmusdorn]

9 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said:

It's not that I wouldn't receive a bonus, the system of RP submission is balanced for everyone where anyone can accumulate RP points until the sun comes home. 

All ive been stating was that I dont like someone trying to talk to me for the sole purpose of accumulating the points, a conversation out of thin air from someone I've never interacted with. I role play all the time and if I receive a bonus for doing it that's fantastic, however, I don't want to be in a position when I'm role playing strictly for the points because I'm close to a purchase. That's is what some people are doing, forced RP encounters for the sake of a bonus above and beyond the experience of the actual encounter itself  

Im not whining about anything, im not saying gimmie gimmie gimmie, im not crying foul. I'm just pointing something out because it irked my attention and that I like pointing things out that irk me, lol 

UC 

I find that a little crazy. You choose to buy the perks or what perks to buy. If they are PK focus'd then thats your choice. If you choose to buy any at ALL thats your choice...

We have some characters in game with 500+ rp points who have never purchased a thing. They just aren't interested. Fair enough. But you coming up to a reward shouldn't influence your style of play. 

Something I see is people put a lot of effort into their RP until they reach 'that' goal and then journals etc just disappear - fair enough, thats your prerogative but you won't stick in the memories of us all like any of the great RP'ers. 

Ivesianna is a great example of this.  She just does what she does and just keeps rping because its fun and I can only assume how she wants to play. So the rewards keep switching up.

 

3 hours ago, Wade said:

I really appreciate what @Ulmusdorn does but the workload is obviously too much because the turn around time is pretty bad which adds to the disjointed feeling. 

Thats because you're waiting to be awarded - you may have 40 hours a week to play and wait for rewards, I on the other hand run 5 businesses employing 70 staff over 3 different industries.

Sometimes we're just doing the best we can. If play for you feels disjointed then you're putting emphasis in the wrong place or awaiting rewards in the wrong areas. 

In this regard I only make apologies for relevant qclass/race applications which carry a weighting. 

 

 

Realistically what I'm getting from this is that you are all putting way too much onus on 'collecting' these rewards. Would it be better to rewind ALL pk edges/perks and keep them strictly RP rewards?
Will this alleviate or reduce some of the player dissatisfaction I am seeing in recent rimes?

All of the above is just thinking out loud and opening a discussion. I am not in away way saying you view or point is invalid @Unknown Criminal or @Wade merely adding my $1's worth.

[Trick]

I'll say this...

@Erelei and I have a very, very, very extensive history. We've known each other for a LONG time and the majority of that time, unfortunately, hasn't been on the most pleasant of terms. I've called this man out on all kinds of shit, a lot of it unwarranted. We've had some very negative interactions, but I can honestly say that I've never experienced anything negative from him in game. I've never been unable to get something, be appropriately rewarded for something, or had to wait for an answer regarding a code issue I think I might be experiencing.

My point is, even when there may be personal issues, the Staff(the current one) is damn good at looking past it and doing what's right.

[Trick]

24 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

STUFF

I've had just about every single edge you can have. Both Belderon and Ekhurift had enough RP at deletion to buy more edges, but they weren't worth it. I was going to buy things for other players as Belderon, but I just got burnt out. The edges are really NOT that great. Honestly, they aren't. At a certain point, +2 hit/dam ain't shit. It doesn't "change" anything because of the caps.

I wish I would have spent my points on something long lasting in the game. Hopefully when @Zoichan returns and Ofcol is finished, I'll finally have my little addition to FL that I've always wanted to create through RP.

I play this game for the RP. To say that people are just digging for points is shitty thing to say because its just not true.

[aaa]

I think Rp rewards shouldn't have an impact on pk balance just like I think pk ability shouldn't have an impact on Rp rewards. 

I think the strength of the edges compounded with the power creep of items has imbalanced a lot of the game. 

But I dont know anything and am perpetually wrong so take it as you will. 

[Trick]

6 minutes ago, Wade said:

I think Rp rewards shouldn't have an impact on pk balance just like I think pk ability shouldn't have an impact on Rp rewards. 

I think the strength of the edges compounded with the power creep of items has imbalanced a lot of the game. 

But I dont know anything and am perpetually wrong so take it as you will. 

What edges have you had?

EDIT:

This conversation is ironic because I remember when people claimed there was a distinct line between PKers and RPers. People asked for PK advantages to heavy RP characters since this is a "RP enforced MUD". Am I the only one that remembers these threads?

[f0xx]

7 hours ago, Wade said:

The best analogy I could think of was this. 

It's the difference between getting hit on at the bar by a stranger and getting hit on by a prostitute at a brothel. Sure, both of then might be doing it because they want to but the doubt that the prostitute is only doing it for the money cheapens the whole experience. 

Knowing that people are potentially interacting with you to farm points cheapens the whole in

You know, that actually basically says that you take that roleplay's sole purpose is to "whore" RP points.

It shows YOUR attitude towards RP.

And to be honest, I am still fine with that. Since if your RP is well played, it will make the game better for everyone.

Either way, you have all the power in the world to choose NOT TO interact with others. Trying to portray those who want to build their characters, even if its for the RPs alone, as whores though, man that's just low.

[Pali]

*shrugs* I'm okay with being called an RP-whore.  Nothing wrong with getting paid to do what you love.  

[aaa]

There's nothing wrong with whores. Prostitution is legal here and not particularly looked down upon. 

Besides, that's not how analogies work. If I call you a diamond in the rough, I'm not implying you're highly compacted carbon.