Rare Purge Hours

[Unknown Criminal]

How many hours does a character need to put in to not be rare purged? 

Just curious

UC

[Anume]

You won't get exactl numbers on that one. It's quite a bit more than keeping your cabal, which is 10 hours.

[Unknown Criminal]

Was just curious when a few of my other chars got purged on the 1st, they were uncabaled, I just kept forgetting to ask  

Thank you Anume

UC

[Dale]

Dang I was sure I knew the exact answer from this coming straight from Anume.  But I'll never speak against the Queen

[Manual Labour]

Better keep it under your hat dale, I can't even begin to imagine what would happen if players knew how many hours they needed to play each month to keep their rares...

[Tantangel]

I figured it out years ago through trial and error, so unless it was changed in recent years, I don't think it's really enough. If anything it should be doubled, or perhaps a check of the amount of hours played versus days actually played. So in other words, someone playing X hours needed only at the beginning of the month doesn't get to keep them because they hadn't logged in enough in the middle or end of the month by at least an addition Y set of hours. Same thing similar for those who log in just at the end of the month. But say someone were to log in the X amount of hours throughout the month, or even just at the beginning and middle or end would keep them. But I'm not sure how difficult that would be to put into the code, or if it is even feasible. It may cut back on rares being out of circulation though and if the bug with some characters not being purged hadn't been fixed, this could possibly fix that?

[Rygothran]

Increasing the hour requirements will only serve to punish the players who don't have all the time in the world to play due to work, family life, school, etc...

[Tantangel]

I have thought about that, and honestly that's the only drawback I really saw from it. There are items out there though that are still pretty decent and aren't rare. BUT here's the alternative. The hours could possibly be tiered based on what you're wearing in general. If you're wearing a full suit of armor that's all Rare and/or Unique, they would need to get 30-40 a month. Which isn't much more than what it already is. For those players who don't have enough time to play and are only wearing a few rares could be set in for a minimum of 15 hours of which almost everyone plays that in a given month easily. They can supplement any other EQ by getting the non rare items.

When I came back, I was working 12+ hour days with varying things happening at the same time (IE: death in the family, life coaching) and I was still able to put in a bit of time enough to make all my rare counts each month. If they can't hit the hours required a rollover from the previous month could be put in place possibly, but even then that would mean rares are no longer in circulation and put us back at square one. I've always hated when someone would brink up that it punishes people who don't play a lot because it forces people to work around those limitations and find EQ they may not have known about that is nice. If you hit the 10 hour mark and you're in a Cabal but get rare purged, you can get back most of it from buying things within the Cabal itself. That would also cut back on the player's who can't make that time from playing alternate characters as well, which helps circulation, and makes it so the time they do have is spent on their one character.

[Ulmusdorn]

1 hour ago, Tantangel said:

I have thought about that, and honestly that's the only drawback I really saw from it. There are items out there though that are still pretty decent and aren't rare. BUT here's the alternative. The hours could possibly be tiered based on what you're wearing in general. If you're wearing a full suit of armor that's all Rare and/or Unique, they would need to get 30-40 a month. Which isn't much more than what it already is. For those players who don't have enough time to play and are only wearing a few rares could be set in for a minimum of 15 hours of which almost everyone plays that in a given month easily. They can supplement any other EQ by getting the non rare items.

When I came back, I was working 12+ hour days with varying things happening at the same time (IE: death in the family, life coaching) and I was still able to put in a bit of time enough to make all my rare counts each month. If they can't hit the hours required a rollover from the previous month could be put in place possibly, but even then that would mean rares are no longer in circulation and put us back at square one. I've always hated when someone would brink up that it punishes people who don't play a lot because it forces people to work around those limitations and find EQ they may not have known about that is nice. If you hit the 10 hour mark and you're in a Cabal but get rare purged, you can get back most of it from buying things within the Cabal itself. That would also cut back on the player's who can't make that time from playing alternate characters as well, which helps circulation, and makes it so the time they do have is spent on their one character.

On one hand we're saying raise the time needed for rare counts. On the other hand we have people saying "Why can't I play several pinns, in several cabals," OR "Why can't I have several qclasses". 

Lol raise the rare time, it'll be interesting to see how people react. Lets make it 40 hours. 10 hours per week per character. (hilarious).

[Kyzarius]

I want more qclasses at once because the mud is getting boring and playing the q classes gives me something to do.

It isnt an excess amount of time i am trying to fill, it is a please let me not feel lile i am yawning the moment i login. 

The time requirements for this game are obscene already.  If they were increased, forcing me to play in a way i dont want to, like not being able to have alts because i just cant play them all, I would just go elsewhere.  

Really a ridiculous notion. 

 

[Dale]

Each rare and unique should add more time you need to play to keep them.  Then people who horde eq should have to be active more.  

 

I don't care if you don't have a lot of time to play, I want your hells fury.   

[Dale]

Oops

[Fool_Hardy]

Ok, I am a little slow so bare with me.

1. Game meets requirements to purge rare things.
2. Game checks "requirements" and purge is done.
3. Some stuff, goes poof.

But I was holding that stuff!!

No, I was not. Some make believe character that could not find time to even visit his make believe world, was holding that make believe stuff.

And by holding, I mean withholding. (I am the worst at this, and I don't even do it on purpose. So, not calling anyone out here but me.)

Although you are the ones handing me the rares so _{>cast deflection}

Only trouble I see with rare purges, is the time should be cut in half, and we should do it twice a month.

[Tantangel]

5 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said:

On one hand we're saying raise the time needed for rare counts. On the other hand we have people saying "Why can't I play several pinns, in several cabals," OR "Why can't I have several qclasses". 

Lol raise the rare time, it'll be interesting to see how people react. Lets make it 40 hours. 10 hours per week per character. (hilarious).

As far as I know, there's no time limit requirement to keep your qclasses/races so having multiple wouldn't be a drawback to it. 40 hours isn't even much to keep said items. Even changing it to 30 which is pretty low considering the outcome would be more circulation. Or we just eliminate both Rare and Unique flags and let everyone have the armor so people don't play characters for the beginning of the month, gain a bunch of EQ by winning over the strongest characters in the game, and then disappear to not be seen again and that armor not be seen for 2 months because of it. That solves every problem right there for people, they can get everything they want, have 90 varying characters of which some will have solid RP, and multiple qclass/races can be had as well.

Why would I say change the hours though for a real reason outside of the disappearing act? Because simply put, the amount of time where there is either 1 or none at all online would make you think that a ton of rares should or would be around. The peak times I've seen maybe 15 people on at the same time and even that isn't for an extended period. Go to locate something as simply as a Club that gives you the ability to cast poison, or wear the boots that grant you refresh, were only in stock for a good month or two after first being implemented and now it's never found (I've checked daily for 2 months now and found the club once on a character that couldn't use mace). Bumping up the rare count is a band-aid fixing a bullet hole in that aspect. You yourself aren't able to play often because of RL being in the way as well as being more important, BUT with a tiered system for rares you could still keep them, you just wouldn't be able to horde a God suit. You're still viable for PK, you have options of gaining EQ from Cabal, Merchant, PK, and stumbling upon it.

I get bored as hell and play alt characters a lot lately to try and help me think of alternate RP for characters, or to help me think about my main characters RP more to flesh them out completely. If I have too many and it's been 2+ weeks since I last played them and not felt bad about it, I log in and delete those characters. I doubt many people would actually do that though, and at 50 you can't right now, but you can drop and sacrifice them which takes forever to do it and for people who are in Cabals who wish to be denied could easily drop the items off inside the Cabal and then stop playing the character. I don't consider that circulation simply because it's not a 'fair' grounds for anyone to get it. Sure you can kill them, but by the time you realize they have it if you can't locate items, that person may be able to whoop your ass ten times over without taking a nap in between. At least with a higher hour usage, it means those items can go straight to MOBs that would normally have them, and thus be equal grounds for anyone to grab, not just people good at PK.

Another way around it to keeping them if you don't meet the requirements could be justified with use of RP points. Since RP points are something you have to RP for to get them in a variety of ways, it would mean people who want to keep characters decked without needing to play if they don't have time that month to apply for it. This also ensures people who want to have multiple characters, that they can at least benefit from using RP points and fewer characters will hit 50 with no real purpose. Would it mean we're forcing someone to play specific characters stifling any opportunity of being able to play other characters? No. It gives them the option to play them still, and the hours required for keeping what you have is honestly very very minimal. A part time job in the course of a month? And if you rolled the character this month, even if you don't hit the hours, you don't lose the EQ unless you don't meet them the following month.

Although I don't believe people intentionally do it to the capacity of keeping EQ out of enemy hands by rolling characters and hording them, I'm sure it has been done by others before whether that's known or unknown. And if no one has thought of it before, it's something that could possibly be abused in the future. Two months minimum before items are back in circulation though seems to be a HUGE downfall for people in some cases. Play a Mage and need one of the few +spell level masks? Sorry, but you can't have them until some Thief decided to steal it at some point from someone who hadn't worn it yet, and because that Thief stops playing at the beginning of the month hitting the right hours, that item is no longer around for quite some time. Lenses from Magic? Great, except by the time I may be able to use them when I hit 50, they've finally been taken by a Cleric at some point. Dragon Mask? I've never beaten it and applaud those who have, but you can't even locate that unless it's on someone. So if you do end up killing the dragon, you'll enjoy a few shields before you realize it's not around. The Eye from the Dragon in Desolation? Unless that thing has been toned down, I always got raped by its unpleasant ability to heal quickly and dish out damage. But I haven't found a group to go to any of those places since I came back either.

So unless a far better method could be found, someone else should probably come up with a different solution if people hate it. The way I see it is, rare counts have been upped in the past that helped out for a moment, but it wasn't ever a long term solution. Does it suck ass being rare purged? Yes. Rare purged and you're still in a Cabal? Even more so. But to outright say upping hours is ludicrous is rather baffling. The only time limits in this game that you're required to meet is for your Cabal and Armor. I decided a long time ago to take a set of armor of non rares and put them in a locker just in case of things like that happening. This has to be the most 'fair' option though for everyone who does play. I've got RP ideas in my mind for a lot of varying backgrounds on characters, and I refrain from doing them so I can devote it to a main character now. The only thing I've found is that in the span of a character and creation and ranking, I usually hit that minimum within a week. So rather than stating that you'll quit playing the game if that were to change, what is another solution to the matter? I don't want a band-aid way of a quick fix either because we always end up back here. I've only seen Hell's Fury about 3 times in the last year. It's not a punishment by any means for players, it would help almost everyone else though in the sense that newer players would also be able to map out items faster than they can now and know where to go for the items in the future. It seems like a horrible change to some, but I'm trying to see this from various view points. I've been on the side of both before, but despite that I've always felt that the hours required were really low to begin with.

[f0xx]

4 hours ago, Dale said:

Each rare and unique should add more time you need to play to keep them.  Then people who horde eq should have to be active more.  

How do you know they are not active already? This assumption that you make, that the people with the good EQ are inactive, is pretty silly.

On top of that, Do you really think that making the strongest characters be online more, is healthy for the game? I know that each of us has characters which he avoids. Will you play more, if those characters were more active, or will you play less? Or will you just switch toons?

 

4 hours ago, Dale said:

I don't care if you don't have a lot of time to play, I want your hells fury.   

The Hell's Fury is currently held by Ivesianna, iirc. She is quite active. She is perma bountied. Roll that Syndicate and go at her mate. Don't cry on the forums  to raise the hours, so she can lose her stuff and you can obtain it from the mob. Only makes you look like a wimp.

See, the problem that I have is that, people complain that the guys who hold the EQ are inactive, when in reality, they just can't kill them.

[Pali]

5 hours ago, Tantangel said:

Go to locate something as simply as a Club that gives you the ability to cast poison, or wear the boots that grant you refresh, were only in stock for a good month or two after first being implemented and now it's never found (I've checked daily for 2 months now and found the club once on a character that couldn't use mace).

Funny - I finally rolled up a new char a week or so ago and found the club my first run through the canyon while in the high 20s by accident.  Still have it, too.  You're welcome to kill me for it.

5 hours ago, Tantangel said:

40 hours isn't even much to keep said items.

It is half of a full time job (edit: derp, actually a quarter), over an hour a day of playing on average.  That is demanding a lot from players.  FL can't be a game that's impossible to play and maintain what progress you make while also having a full time job and activities that go beyond the text-based - make it so, and you will not gain players, you will lose them.  There is a fine line between incentives to play more (which are good) and penalties for playing less (which are bad), and I think a significant increase to the hours required to maintain rares or cabal affiliation is likely to cross that line to the bad side.

5 hours ago, Tantangel said:

but you can drop and sacrifice them which takes forever to do it

Easier method is just getting your character killed before you delete or ask for denial.  Remove your weapons and all gear you can and walk into the Forsaken Lands without any spells up, then make some level 20's day when he checks the pit later.  

[Dale]

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

How do you know they are not active already? This assumption that you make, that the people with the good EQ are inactive, is pretty silly.

On top of that, Do you really think that making the strongest characters be online more, is healthy for the game? I know that each of us has characters which he avoids. Will you play more, if those characters were more active, or will you play less? Or will you just switch toons?

 

The Hell's Fury is currently held by Ivesianna, iirc. She is quite active. She is perma bountied. Roll that Syndicate and go at her mate. Don't cry on the forums  to raise the hours, so she can lose her stuff and you can obtain it from the mob. Only makes you look like a wimp.

See, the problem that I have is that, people complain that the guys who hold the EQ are inactive, when in reality, they just can't kill them.

Foxx I'm not even playing right now, if that means I can't have input in a game I love so much and plan on playing again soon then so be it. What I said was derived from 15 years of playing and recent experience will tell you that any character no matter how powerful eventually starts to fade and you don't see them as often.  My suggestion to add hours for each rare wasn't entirely serious, but that doesn't mean I think it would be a bad idea.  

 

I actually really liked the idea of making it every two weeks, I forgot to mentioned it sorry, but I actually think it would be better if implemented every week.  

 

And Foxx, have you ever known for me to log off for anyone, ever?  If you have something I want I'm coming for it or conning someone else into getting it to take from.

 

I've had two Es in Syndicate and no Ls yet so be careful what you wish for buddy😘

[Tantangel]

33 minutes ago, Pali said:

Funny - I finally rolled up a new char a week or so ago and found the club my first run through the canyon while in the high 20s by accident.  Still have it, too.  You're welcome to kill me for it.

It is half of a full time job, over an hour a day of playing on average.  That is demanding a lot from players.  FL can't be a game that's impossible to play and maintain what progress you make while also having a full time job and activities that go beyond the text-based - make it so, and you will not gain players, you will lose them.  There is a fine line between incentives to play more (which are good) and penalties for playing less (which are bad), and I think a significant increase to the hours required to maintain rares or cabal affiliation is likely to cross that line to the bad side.

Easier method is just getting your character killed before you delete or ask for denial.  Remove your weapons and all gear you can and walk into the Forsaken Lands without any spells up, then make some level 20's day when he checks the pit later.  

Die, and then let you kill me later after you found my stuff around lvl 25-30? Nope.

But seriously, it was to illustrate a point. The only times I ever found it is when playing a class that can't use mace as a weapon, and I typically don't play them in general either. It's not bad for some people, but it's like the numbers on that item are 5 since I never see others wielding it. The only unfortunate thing about playing a class without it is when I had killed that Gorgorak or however and he had that Beastknuckle.

Since everyone is very anti change on the matter of how to go about having rares in circulation, what would you suggest in its stead? Going through individual pfiles would be extremely taxing and not worthwhile. And so far there's only two suggestions, but none from people saying mine was bad to offer an alternative. People may hate my suggestions, but competent alternatives should be offered up instead of shutting it down without a reason. Every time I've asked for it from people who have posted on varying Ideas & Suggestions, the people who were completely outspoken against them stopped posting. Whether it's because they had no ideas themselves or didn't want to put the thought into it, I'm not sure. So what is your suggestions on this? (By the way, that club I had seen around a week ago as well, along with a week before that, I just want the damned boots even if it is -damroll and +6 hitroll and refresh.)

[Pali]

Honestly, I don't think I've played enough as late to have an informed opinion on the current state of rare circulation.  However, I would say that statistically, how well you can find specific items over a month or so long period isn't much to go on when trying to judge the general state of rares across the board.  I got a mage to level 50 and in two days (6-8 hours) had -400ac, +200 or so hp, -30 saves and +1 spell level just killing mobs I could comfortably solo, with a mix of rares, commons, and a unique or two, so the lack of a few things (who has my crustacean rings?!) has yet to truly concern me.

[f0xx]

3 hours ago, Dale said:

...be careful what you wish for buddy😘

Bring it bud.

I need some more recent bragging rights anyway

[Dale]

If I had to guess I'd say you were playing either a giant/ogre warrior 

Or a blademaster or thief in warmaster.  

OMG wait, killing me achieves one bragging rights now?  Did I just win FL?

[Tantangel]

1 hour ago, Pali said:

Honestly, I don't think I've played enough as late to have an informed opinion on the current state of rare circulation.  However, I would say that statistically, how well you can find specific items over a month or so long period isn't much to go on when trying to judge the general state of rares across the board.  I got a mage to level 50 and in two days (6-8 hours) had -400ac, +200 or so hp, -30 saves and +1 spell level just killing mobs I could comfortably solo, with a mix of rares, commons, and a unique or two, so the lack of a few things (who has my crustacean rings?!) has yet to truly concern me.

That's fair enough, but your opinion still has merit on any changes you think would be better. I can get to 50 in less than a day, get a lot of EQ by killing MOBs as well, but some pieces are a matter of luck more so than others. If I want something beneficial for a character, I usually can't locate it as it's over level 50, the item is unique and only 2 are available (1 in fewer cases), and add in the fact that I get steamrolled by some people and all of that accomplishment is gone in some cases. I had less of a hard time over a decade ago regaining EQ if I died. I could go in and solo my way into Dischord and Desolation for certain items, and the only hard part was Gear when I needed the help to get me passed the last gauntlet. With all the EQ changes though, it's far too easy to get the AC, Saves, and HP. The +1 to spell level is the hard part for me at least. I do try and locate those items and usually when I need them on a class, they're not there, but they're always there when I don't have a need for it. I can get a - Spllvl item a lot easier than a +spell item though. I would categorize them as a non essential though in the terms of why the change is needed. I just find that each time it gets 'fixed', it's just a rare count adjustment that benefits few for a short time. Considering the outrage/outcry of hours being changed though just says to me that "if any change is implemented, it has to benefit me or I'll be pissed."

That mentality was something I had to deal with a LOT at my old job which often led to me being the voice of reason. We even had a guy once who was probably the worst Lead of a department I'd ever seen get a TON of leeway due to some personal problems in his life. Everyone bent over backwards for the guy so we could work around him and anything that happened in his personal life. Despite all of that he'd constantly be ripping upper Management left and right, and going as far as throwing the very people, who let him do what he needed to do to get his life in order, under the bus. One day he snapped completely and left completely. The moral of that story is that regardless of what changes are made to even help people, not everyone is happy regardless of whether or not it benefits them or not. I try to keep an open mind about things, and even if I do disagree with the change that's put in, I figure I'll at least give it a try before I decide if I hate it or not. In all honesty, I prefer Fool Hardy's suggestion of multiple checks, but as far as hours go, I don't think they should be lowered. If it was tied into the PK tiers though I could see due to Moderates having limited rare armor counts being lowered by 25%, Ruthless could be the normal amount of hours, and Hardcore could have a much higher amount of hours. So people could still keep whatever baubles they want, but at the cost of the perks of Hardcore you also need to play more. It offers a balance between what I first proposed and everyone else hating on the idea in general. Will it fix it? Maybe. But at least it's something.

@Dale He plays with himself, so if he kills your character for bragging rights, just remember you died because @f0xx's dick game is strong.

[Dale]

What's hardcore?

[f0xx]

5 minutes ago, Dale said:

What's hardcore?

"Help hardcore".

[Dale]

I don't have a computer-_-