snoopers

[Atticus]

I know all of you aren't playing atm. Those who browse the fourm and do not play, what's keeping you all away?

I mean, free malform fodder here....

Just sayin

[Fool_Hardy]

That's 2 easy kills counting me. What's wrong with people? #beggingtobepked

 

[Tantangel]

If they're as smart as I was, they don't check the forum. I went 4 years without it. I didn't feel the urge. I logged into the game  though once because some asshole tagged me on Facebook a few months before. Now look at me. Jobless, back in school, and addicted. It's like I'm 16 all over again.

[Trick]

There are a lot of reasons why the people that don't play, don't play. I might try to log in once or twice every few days then I typically log out once the quit wait is over.

Personally, I feel as though the environment has fallen too far for the game to be enjoyable overall. There are so many factors that bring down the entire atmosphere of the game and that is why I don't have the desire to play currently. I'm not going to say I'll never play again, because that'd probably be a lie, but for now I have very little desire.

Between the Staff and the players, there is a lot of toxicity and negativity all around. Each has their problems, but these are problems that have existed over the declination of this game and will eventually see it to its last player.

The return on investment just isn't there anymore. To be honest, I'm amazed some people are still here, and that means Staff as well.

I'll try to break it down on how I feel...

Staff -

There's a clear line in the sand. There's a very strong "us vs you" mentality that exists. Both sides are to blame, for sure. The Staff does a lot to accommodate the PBase and that is appreciated, but there are times when its our opinion trumps your's and that's the way its going to be.

Players have addressed problems that are clearly being ignored. Wait times was my big thing recently. I played Agravaine, or tried to, and I waited for what felt like a long time to be made into an Avatar. After attempts to bring the situation to light, I was made to feel as though I were bitching, whining, and impatient despite trying to show evidence of a clear issue. It ruined the entire character, I had arguments with members of the Staff, and an all around shitty time. So, I deleted. I apologized for the argument taking place and I took a sabbatical. Though, some members of the Staff were at a complete loss as to why this was even occurring and agreed with me.

So, why play if this is the environment created by the Staff?

Disclaimer: This hasn't ALWAYS been the case and I have experienced a lot of positive interactions. I understand the Staff are humans and they are subject to emotions one way or the other, but sometimes one bad interaction can be enough to impact a person's perspective.

 

Player -

The toxicity of this playerbase is by far the worst I have ever seen in any game. Success is not cheered on, it is condemned. A player that puts in time and energy into creating a unique, well RPed, well PKed asset to the game is treated with such contempt you can literally feel it. The comments by certain players are enough to prove it alone. I have felt it across three different characters. Ekhurift, Belderon, and Ilsurik. I have seen it happen to characters like Thulgan and Kotrag.

RP then begins to break down as I get outright OOC tells telling me to "fuck off" or some variant. After so many of these encounters you loathe logging in because you don't want to deal with the negative interactions in person. Its awful.

So, why play if this is the environment created by the Players?

Disclaimer: This hasn't ALWAYS been the case and I have had a ton of very memorable experiences with my characters. If I didn't I wouldn't have played them as long as I had.

 

The players of this game have pushed me away far more than the Staff has despite my most recent interaction with them. Overall, the Staff tries to make everyone feel wanted and that their opinion has value and their problems are a concern. It can be difficult at times to fix everything and not every thing may get the attention it deserves. I get that. Leadership is tough. Truthfully, I'm shocked we even have a Staff with the way this current PBase is.

The players are hypocrites. Everyone here says they don't do <insert whatever>, then the moment the log in they do it all. They break RP, the full loot when they claim they don't, they gang, trash PK, and roll combos to kill specific characters.

This kumbaya bullshit on the forums portrayed by certain people is just that. Its bullshit. There's no love. There's no community here. No one really cares about each other.

That's why I don't want to play.

 

[f0xx]

You only do well cause you play OP combos.

Stop whining.

[Wade]

2 hours ago, Fireman said:

The return on investment just isn't there anymore. 

This. 

Why put in 200 hours to still end up being a punching bag. 

My steam backlog gets bigger every week, and I could cross 4 off in the same time with some sort of guaranteed return on investment. 

I dont think there's anything particularly wrong with the game in this regard, just that it hasn't evolved to cater to todays situation. 

[Kyzarius]

I just want to be able to enjoy more than one q-thing.  And not have to wait weeks just to get an app approved.   I have the itch to roll something new, but am stuck because of the restrictions and dont want to let go of my current. 

I have an active character right now though, so i guess im just chiming in.  Kind of ironic though i want to participate more, but restrictions...

The change to cabal promotions and clan allow for cabal induction is a great step for sure.  I cant wait to rp with some folks and flex both new E/L commands.

[Erelei]

This is getting ridiculous guys. 

[Zhurong]

+1 to Erelei

[Atticus]

I've legit seen people get qthings in three days.

[Zhurong]

LEGIT!

[Trick]

4 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I've legit seen people get qthings in three days.

And I've seen people wait for three weeks. If anything, you're supporting the argument that the system is broken.

[Atticus]

I'm not taking sides man. I think we all know ive flamed the imms and phase enough for the whole who list in the community. I'm saying that I've seen some people get things in days, watched you on your dwarf sit a while.

Not sure what the standard is.

 

Didn't mean to open up a can of worms here. Sorry

[f0xx]

8 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I've legit seen people get qthings in three days.

Problem is that at the same time some are getting qthings in 3 days, other have to wait 3 weeks. 

Time has never been the problem. Consistency is. 

[Zhurong]

My son eats his own boogers.

[Erelei]

@Fireman‘s dwarf got approved in four days - was asking for status after two, and got actual avatar in less than two weeks. 

Just an FYI. 

[Trick]

9 minutes ago, Erelei said:

@Fireman‘s dwarf got approved in four days - was asking for status after two, and got actual avatar in less than two weeks. 

Just an FYI. 

Application was sent on July 15.

I asked for an update on July 17 via Prayer Forum and sent you a PM - no response.

I asked again for an update on July 21 - no response.

I asked for your play times for a chance to RP with you on July 24 - you responded.

Finally made another post on July 27 expressing my frustration.

As this was going on, I watched Julsaard get rolled, level to 30, get approved, and leveled to 50 as I sat and waited.

Just an FYI.

Weird how "four days" spanned from July 15 to July 27..

 

[Erelei]

Guess I’ll have to grab the logs.

[Trick]

Just now, Erelei said:

Guess I’ll have to grab the logs.

Or the dates from Prayer Forum like I did.

[Zoichan]

26 minutes ago, Fireman said:

Application was sent on July 15. Yup

I asked for an update on July 17 via Prayer Forum and sent you a PM - no response.  You had a response in prayer.

I asked again for an update on July 21 - no response.  Correct

Between the 21st and 24th (the penalty has fallen off my list so I can't give the exact date) your application was approved. All that was needed  was the RP to make it finalized.

I asked for your play times for a chance to RP with you on July 24 - you responded. Correct. And times were arranged. The first time you didn't stay online long enough for @Erelei to handle it, and the next evening you weren't able to log on.

Finally made another post on July 27 expressing my frustration.  This is when it hit the fan and things got out of hand.

As this was going on, I watched Julsaard get rolled, level to 30, get approved, and leveled to 50 as I sat and waited.

Just an FYI.

Weird how "four days" spanned from July 15 to July 27..   Unless I'm mistaken, (and I could be, the records aren't on my list anymore) your application was approved in less than a week. Avatar and Demon currently have RP'd conversions. That is what took the most time.  This is a sore topic for many. Can we please not start this fight again? It's over, it's been settled. Your concerns did not fall on deaf ears.

 

 

[Erelei]

Okay. Found a brief IMM log.

 68 Thu Jul 27 23:00:44 2017 ::  [30087] Erelei: He was approved the 23rd
 69 Thu Jul 27 23:00:50 2017 ::  [30087] Erelei: He applied the 18th.
 70 Thu Jul 27 23:00:59 2017 ::  [30087] Erelei: And got avatar by the 27th.
 71 Thu Jul 27 23:01:03 2017 ::  [30087] Erelei: He waited one week
 72 Thu Jul 27 23:01:26 2017 ::  [30087] Lloth: *REDACTED*
 73 Thu Jul 27 23:01:35 2017 ::  [30087] Erelei: *REDACTED*
 74 Thu Jul 27 23:01:56 2017 ::  [30087] Zoichan: Forum post was on the 17th unless my forum is jacked
 75 Thu Jul 27 23:02:53 2017 ::  [30087] Lloth: *REDACTED*
 76 Thu Jul 27 23:03:02 2017 ::  [30087] Lloth: *REDACTED*
 77 Thu Jul 27 23:04:13 2017 ::  [30087] Erelei: Ahh 10 days

So, ten days. Applied on 15th (maybe, no logs of this), approved on 23rd, avatar by 27th.  10 (12 days if you did in fact apply on the 15th) days in all.

You made your char Jul 11, ranked up to level 15 in less than an hour, and got your desc approved. This is where you sat until you got avatar.
 

====
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 19:42:34 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 2
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 19:42:57 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 3
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 19:44:40 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 4
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 19:49:22 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 5
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 19:49:45 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 6
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 19:49:45 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 7
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 19:54:34 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 8
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 20:00:28 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 9
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 20:02:04 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 10
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 20:04:51 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 11
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 20:07:33 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 12
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 20:13:18 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 13
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 20:19:00 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 14
1180.log:Tue Jul 11 20:26:26 2017 :: Agravaine gained level 15
====

So worst case scenario, you waited less than two weeks. And you got approved in 5-6 days at the worst. You had to wait the rest to catch me. And I believe I actually was on at a point and you logged off the day before you flipped on on prayer forum about it, where you logged out less than 10 minutes after logging in.

So anyway. There's that.

[Wade]

Just for the record, I don't feel like either party is handling this very well.

Might I recommend a new thread relating to wait times where this discussion can continue. 

 

[Trick]

Thank you for your response @Zoichan and for posting your log @Erelei. Our information matches up and the timeline I presented is accurate.

There are two big issues here.

Number 1:

You say "less than two weeks" as though it is okay. Its not okay.

In an era where we(Staff and Pbase) are adults and have other responsibilities such as careers and families; waiting twelve days to meet up with a single person is not a good way to do business. Logging in when we can has become the play-style of many of us and its difficult to justify logging in to sit around and wait when there are a plethora of other things we can do with our time.

The problem is not only in the system, but this ridiculous attitude that because its been this way in the past or others have waited longer that its an efficient system. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Longevity does not equal efficiency.

Players are being punished, albeit unintentionally, for wanting to play your game. We want to play this game and we want to experience everything you're coding and creating for us, but the current system is preventing that.

Number 2:

Inconsistency. The process that is being utilized is not putting forth a consistent standard which is causing even more frustrations. Every IMM has such a varying standard as to what they want from their QRace/class that approvals are random, I'd argue that there isn't even a standard in place. There's no real reason why person A is waiting longer than person B except for someone "felt" like approving them or "felt" like they needed to wait. Its ludicrous.

Having a standard of operation would make this entire problem go away. A hard template of how the system will flow will alleviate all this frustration.

 

You guys, the Staff, are complicating your own lives and making your own lives tougher by not having a better system. You were all players once. Every one of you were a player and because of that you know how shitty it is to wait around for no reason or to watch others achieve what you've strived for at a faster rate. @Erelei, I remember talking to you AIM about shit just like this man.

We're not asking for something so ridiculous. We're asking to play the game. That's all.

 

 

[Erelei]

Completely different shade of glasses when you become an IMM.
But keep thinking that I guess. We're doing our best. We give an inch, you take a mile (or at least attempt to).

The system works, it assumed the IMMs have lives, and it makes it more organized to have ONE imm to deal with ONE issue or application type.

[Trick]

6 minutes ago, Erelei said:

Completely different shade of glasses when you become an IMM.
But keep thinking that I guess. We're doing our best. We give an inch, you take a mile (or at least attempt to).

The system works, it assumed the IMMs have lives, and it makes it more organized to have ONE imm to deal with ONE issue or application type.

I'm not saying you're not doing your best. What I am saying is there is probably a better way.

Keep thinking the system works. The game is hemorrhaging players and failure to address the problems that are being brought up will see you being the Head Coder of a game without players.

I don't understand this attitude.. You can literally log in to the game and be the ONLY person in the entire world on. Let that sink in. I can log into the game and be the ONLY PERSON in the ENTIRE world to be playing it and you're going to tell what few players you have that the problems they are having aren't really problems..?

I just don't get it..