Manual Labour Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 @Vaerick I think you make a lot of sense here actually. I'm definitely not blaming just democrats for all the worlds problems. I do think though that specifically in the case of the middle east the democrats are better at making things worse. I also think the unholy alliance between the left and Islam is very dangerous for the whole world. If Hillary won she would be doing a lot of stupid things probably along the same lines as Trudeau (the insufferable cuck I have to deal with as leader). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 I think the most important thing is to recognize the parallels. We're far closer to the collapse of the Roman Empire than we are to Nazi Germany. You can see it in the politics. Hell you can even see it in the money. I'd have to look but I want to say it was something like 5-7 Emperors in between the early devaluation of the denarius before the silver content was reduced to nothing and you had to have carts full of the coins. In 1973 you could buy gold for $35/oz now it is about $1300/oz with a peak of near $2000/oz when the insecurity of our economy was at its highest. When the government starts devaluing the money to keep things moving you know you're in trouble. Back then it was reducing precious metal content, now it's the vast printing of currency and essentially reducing the trust in the country itself with each dollar (fiat money is based on faith). America is a more powerful and further reaching Empire than any other that has existed so you have to figure the time frame/lifespan will be longer but the events are clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 It's also interesting that when the praetorian guard (roman equivalent of a mix of fbi/cia/secret service) finally got fed up with Commodus (loud, obnoxious, did mean spirited stuff, made statues of himself as hercules and other vanities etc) and strangled him in his bath, the next elected Emperor was a reformer kinda like a Bernie Sanders type, whom they killed after 3 months, and then just auctioned off the office after that. That year would become the year of the 5 emperors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 I never once thought the republicans had control over Trump. At best it was a carrot and stick situation and certainly not a submissive position or even partnership. They know they're playing with fire. I don't think Trump has any control over himself either. I do think there are power structures that would remove him before letting him be too much of an embarrassment be it one way or another. The democratically elected positions in America vs the Bureaucratic positions is staggering lol, and it's never been higher. The career folks have far more influence over most things than the elected folks who don't even read the bills they vote for, or the things they're signing. The government has a life of it's own at this point beyond what anyone individually can control or maintain. A side note- there are reports that Nixon never actually had the real nuke codes because even his own aides thought he was nutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Oh, there are certainly ways to remove him, but Mueller is almost certainly going to take several months if not a year or two before making any formal charges, and I have little faith in Congressional Republicans' willingness to impeach a President that they know will sign any garbage they send his way so long as they can make it look like a win for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 As far as the republicans go they'll pull the trigger as soon as he's a greater liability than asset. Be money or votes or both when the threat is large enough they'll be proud as peacocks to flip the switch. And then they'll act like they're doing some great service and self sacrifice heh. Both parties are hollow and feckless. Neither has any true legitimacy to govern and both are only propped up by money and distrust. I think maybe they 2016 election was the beginning of the end for both. the real fight domestically is between the billionaires and the rest of us. Liberal, conservative, red, blue, whatever -is all just chitlins compared to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Vaerick said: Liberal, conservative, red, blue, whatever -is all just chitlins compared to that. I think you underestimate the power of tribalism and how authoritarian and ignorant a huge sector of the American public is. I don't really expect much from a population in which half its members think the world is ten thousand years old or less and that evolution and climate change are myths, and much of the other half has its own myths and cannibalizes itself over the need to be 100% ideologically pure and in complete adherence to ever-changing rules of political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 @PaliWhatever particular flaw or hotpoint you find in American politics you'll find a billionaire like Koch or Soros or even some of the more "benevoent" dictators funding loud voices to stir up trouble and make people forget that some hundred men have 90% of the worlds resources and look at us as less than livestock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Money has usurped nobility, but their privileges and the defense of those privileges have remained throughout the ages. And they boil down to them having everything and most having nothing and somehow that they're more worthy so as to deserve it. From the age of Kings and Emperors to fortune 500 and forbes richest, it remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 My point is that while it is easy to point fingers at corrupt politicians and big money, we aren't being fair if we don't also spend a few moments pointing at the mirror too. These candidates are ones that we, as a people, produce and vote for. These businesses are ones that we, as a people, support as customers. We, as a people, deserve our share of the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 In a system they control. If the dnc fraud lawsuit didn't prove that I don't know what would. Their argument was literally they are not obligated to follow their own impartiality rules. I don't see how anyone can believe that's a legitimate system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 It took a long time to get here but money and media can convince the population of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 The fraud lawsuit didn't prove a thing - it was dismissed for lack of standing. The DNC has never been shown to have done anything to hurt Bernie beyond staging their debates late in the season and during less than ideal time-slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Their legal defense was literally that they didn't have to be impartial despite their rules saying they do. That was the democrat's defense. If that's not enough to convince of fraud I don't know what is. Their defense was literally the textbook definition of fraud- taking money for something that you aren't actually giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 That is the appropriate legal defense to use when the issue at hand is one of standing - you grant that even if all allegations are true, you have done nothing illegal. That is not an admission that the allegations are true, it is pointing out that they wouldn't be a crime to begin with, so the courts have no need to intervene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, Pali said: That is the appropriate legal defense to use when the issue at hand is one of standing - you grant that even if all allegations are true, you have done nothing illegal. That is not an admission that the allegations are true, it is pointing out that they wouldn't be a crime to begin with, so the courts have no need to intervene. Lol. Well they ain't getting a dollar or a vote from me while that is their defense. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. So you can defend that position all you want, and see how far it gets you. It surely didn't get Hillary very far. GG man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 In that case, have fun voting Republican, or voting for candidates that have no chance. These conversations we've been having? They are what I meant when I mentioned the left cannibalizing itself. The right doesn't do this - Evangelicals were happy to throw away their stated moral principles to support Trump - but the left? We need our people to stay pure and clean, when wallowing in the mud sometimes is the only way to actually get any work done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 If you don't think there is in-fighting in the "right" in american politics, you don't know much about libertarians. The biggest criticisms of war, the "drug war", and other issues often come from the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerick Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 If you think neoliberalism or the democratic party is gonna save the environment you're crazy. If you think letting banksters and wall street set the course is gonna end up with anything good for American's you're crazy. I won't support them. The democratic party will wake up or it will be split in half and die. Either way, status quo is done. But that's it from me. Not gonna get caught up in a last word battle with ya this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted September 23, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Pretty sure the left votes Democrat 10/10 times, regardless of their moral standing. I still know several people who were and still are completely okay with the issues surrounding HRC and consider her an 'upstanding woman'. I just can't do it. I didn't like Bernie either. Nor did I like Trump. Oh well. Not much you can do when you hate all the candidates. It's unfortunate though that we have people who vote Dem or Repub no matter what, regardless of morals. It's not just the right or left, either, it's both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted September 23, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Vaerick said: If you think neoliberalism or the democratic party is gonna save the environment you're crazy. If you think letting banksters and wall street set the course is gonna end up with anything good for American's you're crazy. I won't support them. The democratic party will wake up or it will be split in half and die. Either way, status quo is done. But that's it from me. Not gonna get caught up in a last word battle with ya this time! The DNC is dying. That's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 37 minutes ago, Celerity said: If you don't think there is in-fighting in the "right" in american politics, you don't know much about libertarians. The biggest criticisms of war, the "drug war", and other issues often come from the right. Libertarians are largely an exception that I will freely grant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Also, @Erelei - there is a difference between holding your nose and voting for a candidate you don't like, and embracing that candidate as God's chosen president. Evangelicals have done the latter, and are Trump's strongest base of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted September 23, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just because someone believes in Trump and you don't doesn't make them wrong, either. It just means that they believe differently than you do. The difference right now with Trump and Hillary is that the whole democratic nation (including most media) is so against the fact that Trump won versus Hillary that they'll do anything to tarnish him, and/or bring forward ages old news. Sort of like the whole "grab 'em by the pussy" reference. How long did that guy sit on that story before "leaking" it? I just LOL at things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Trump doesn't need the media's help to tarnish himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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