Like a virgin MUDding for the very 1st time

[myrek]

I dove in headfirst. 

I've been looking for a cheap hobby. So I rolled some characters. Here are the quick observations of old-timer turned newbie.

Don't take this as a negative post. A ton of stuff is awesome: rp points and the new rp campaign, and gear that grants spells. This post is about some things that could be worked on.

!!! These are observations from a weekend of play. Are they right? I don't know. But if I don't share them now, my perspective will change and it will all become the new normal for me. Make sense? It's the curse of knowledge.

Topics:

Newbie friendly
If the newbie friendly scale goes from -5 (condeath before lvl 2) to 5 (newbie welcoming), I'd say that FL was 2-3 and is now a 1.

The forum is full of great advice that is now outdated. Forums are great for discussions. But it's too much for a newbie to sort through and evaluate.

I've seen help files that are wrong (help group). There are Imm helpfiles that are improperly formated (Rygothran for example). (Not a huge newbie issue, but does make the game look bad.) Don't know how widespread the issue is.

The Academy has no members and no automated training although it is promoted in game. There are no characters whose job it is to help newbies.

Some of the quests need a little more explanation. For example: I'm in the middle of a quest that started in Maelbrin and takes you to Val Miran. The guy asked me to come. So I did. He makes 1 snide comment and just stands there. And I can't kill him. There are a zillion things I could do. But what are the key words / actions I'm supposed to type in?

Another example: my bone bow quest. At some point, you have to sell something. You have to type in "sell x". But the store doesn't have to be open. And it feels weird because you don't want to sell it like a regular item by accident and screw up the quest.

And if the idea is to allow solo ranking via guild quests. Saying "go to person you've never header in area you never heard of" isn't going to work for newbies.

Suggestions:
Fix the helpfiles

Create a "start here" section on the site. Not forum posts. Those look out of date and get confusing with the sometimes conflicting advice. Put up to date articles in the wiki.

Update quest text to better explain what needs done in game terms.

Remove or update the Academy. 

Add area helpfiles. Doesn't have to be 10k words, just a ballpark idea of where it is or the areas it borders. Prompt helpfile usage in the quest text. "Read HELP AREANAME for more information."

Seriously, this isn't 2007. You could have video tutorials explaining key items like autoaim, the whole 2." thing, etc. My recommendation is using Loom for screenshots. (Here's my signup link: https://www.useloom.com/?ref=270718  Don't worry. It's free.)

You might even go so far as to create a basic Mudlet configuration for download. Doesn't have to be exotic, just number pad navigation, some colors, maybe a couple useful macros / aliases.

This could all be pointless if there is no such thing as new MUD players. But if there are, being the most newbie welcoming mud might be advantageous.

Gear
Someone said that great AC used to be -300 and it's now -700. That kind of gear inflation has made a lot of the other gear in FL useless. There's a set of non-rare leggings you can get at 25 that's better armor than what used to be primo rare leggings for around lvl 40. I don't know if that's the way it is across the board, but it seems like it. I'm also basing this on the amount of available 2.0 rares I saw available.

1 issue this creates is that a lot of FL is now filler. You get to claim a high room count even though the areas have no purpose and may never get visited.

It also messes with the class balance. What's a 5 point skill increase worth when it's a 5% increase vs when it's 2% increase. This has turned the game into an arms race which makes it more un-newbie-friendly and leads to things like no loot corpses.

Suggestion:
I don't have 1. My limited observation may be off by a mile. But if I'm right, fixing this would require a major revamp.

RP
Speaking of no loot corpses... doesn't this lead to multikilling? "You are a threat to me" is a legitimate reason to PK someone. Right? If I can't take their gear, they're still a threat. Or if I want more than 2 pieces of their gear... doesn't this lead in IC multi-killing?

Balance
I think class / character "balance" is a tool that the imms should use to keep the world balanced. If no one is playing magic users cuz the Warmasters are dominant, nerf them a little - temporarily - like a handicap in golf. Not from any observation other than there are times I would not log on as certain kinds of characters due to the 1-sided group that's already logged on.

Cabals & Clans
It pains me to say this, but there are too many cabals for the playerbase size. 

What's the goal?
What is the intent of the staff? What I've heard stated and the execution of game design is in conflict.

The game doesn't start until 50. Then why is pk possible at 15? Why not make 25 the new 10 and 40 the new 30?
Silent pk is bad rp. Then why are there ninjas with assassinate?

Suggestion: I wonder if a public mission statement would help get everyone on the same page.

Other:
Might be a good idea to add some reviews to TMC. The latest 1 is from 2008.

Crazy shower thoughts:
So I've been mulling over this post all weekend. I've been wondering how accurate my observations have been. Where have I been too judgemental? Where have I been too lax? And I've wondered what the solutions would actually look like. That has led to some crazy ideas. I don't think they're great ideas, but they should serve well as conversation starters.

Crazy idea 1
What if there were only 3 cabals: goodish, evilish, and anarchy. Basically, it's Val Miran vs Miruvhor vs Nexus. The other cabals are either absorbed directly (ex: Mir gets Savant and Val gets Warmasters) or the new cabals use multiple sub-cabals to replicate them. (Each cabal would have a wizards council - savant, spymasters - conclave, elite guard - warmaster, royals - justice). The cabals could then shift internally via politics. Val could be 80% warmasters or both could be 90% warmasters. (Maelbrim would be a neutral but contested area.) The cabals could morph into whatever was being played by the players.

New characters would be given a clan and home town based on character creation choices (welcome to team miruvhor!) They are instantly part of a team who should care about them and help them. (If players love the ability to have a racial hometown, make the first change free. That would help newbies w/o penalizing experts.) The clan would serve as a base for RP and as the farm team for the cabal.

Crazy idea 2:
Pay PLAYERS to update files, guides, areas (create new areas), etc with RP points (RPP?). Set a per character limit. So Pali could do a 100 essays that all get accepted by the staff. At 100 RPP per essay, Pali (the player) now has 10,000 RPP but can only add 500 to a single character. (Those numbers are 100% pulled out of thin air to use as an example.)

Crazy idea 3:
What could it look like if FL embraced "the game starts at 50" and being newbie-welcoming?

Create 40 quests - each teaches a key element (or multiple elements) of the game. Each gives you 1 rank. (To avoid abuse, it could be set with a level check: if lvl < 2, lvl = 2.) The 1st 15 could be general game stuff. Then you could have some that are spell / skill based. Then throw in some geography stuff for fun. Ta daa. Now you have newbies with a decent FL education who don't have to "take this jewel to Brambus" a zillion times.

Heck, you could make everyone an adventurer until lvl 40, then they could pick a class.(Dcheck would need to be adjusted - could be the final quest.) Hmmm.

There it is. Back to work.

 

 

PS Do you still need to go through the staff to update your forum email address?

[Fool_Hardy]

on multikilling.

If they chose the moderate path there is a time interval that prevents both the moderate and their enemy from revisiting the fight. I believe this is to protect moderates from themselves and their fool hardy ways.

If they chose standard or hardcore, there is no such protection to my knowledge.

I do think you have offered points worth examining however. May your seeds grow, and the harvest be bountiful.

[mya]

22 minutes ago, myrek said:

Crazy idea 1
What if there were only 3 cabals: goodish, evilish, and anarchy. Basically, it's Val Miran vs Miruvhor vs Nexus. The other cabals are either absorbed directly (ex: Mir gets Savant and Val gets Warmasters) or the new cabals use multiple sub-cabals to replicate them. (Each cabal would have a wizards council - savant, spymasters - conclave, elite guard - warmaster, royals - justice). The cabals could then shift internally via politics. Val could be 80% warmasters or both could be 90% warmasters. (Maelbrim would be a neutral but contested area.) The cabals could morph into whatever was being played by the players.

I agree that perhaps we have to many cabals, and have myself once sugested having 3 based on the 3 main cities. Your idea is not crazy, but people would still wish to play Warmasters vs Savants. Why not split the sub cabals and reorganizate them into factions.

West good Val Miran, east evil Miruvhor. Central conquer the flag type.

Good gets:
 Gladiators, Praetorian, Council, defensive Savant, anti-undead watcher., Herald.
Evil gets:
 Barbarian, Merchant, Undead/Cycle Nexus, offensive Savant.

Anarchy:
Nexus Reaver,  Watcher city-haters, Syndicate.

1 Leader for each side, 1 elder for each branch, 1 NPC sub-leader for each branch. Bad would be that we would lose 1 imm = 1 cabal thing. But it probably could be easyer to manage, as someone of each side would be bound to be active.

[myrek]

Hey Mya,

I teethed on Warmaster vs Savant. I love Warmaster vs Savant. But how many cabals can the player base support?

Plus if you unite 2 opposing views with a common enemy, you create non-combat conflict (not unlike being an avatar in Savant). Seems like a source of RP.

And nothing is permanent except delete delete. They can always be split off again in the future.

[Fool_Hardy]

I am terrible at looking things up on this forum. Not too long ago @Celerity shared a very similar Idea on how to combine the cabals. If @Magick sees this maybe he will do that crazy thing he does, and share a link with you to read it.

I envision;

Anume tells you 'Tarry a while on the road my dear, let the demons count the most casualties and not the family. When you arrive, see the battle weighed and act accordingly, history will show we fought for the winning side."

[Celerity]

32 minutes ago, myrek said:

I've seen help files that are wrong (help group). There are Imm helpfiles that are improperly formated (Rygothran for example). (Not a huge newbie issue, but does make the game look bad.) Don't know how widespread the issue is.

There was an attempt to rectify this issue.

35 minutes ago, myrek said:

The Academy has no members and no automated training although it is promoted in game. There are no characters whose job it is to help newbies.

Remove or update the Academy. 

This has been talked about quite a bit, but here is a nice recent, relevant post that echos your sentiment. Even when it was first implemented, the Academy wasn't able to fulfill its role. This has been an ongoing problem.

47 minutes ago, myrek said:

Cabals & Clans
It pains me to say this, but there are too many cabals for the playerbase size. 

Crazy idea 1
What if there were only 3 cabals: goodish, evilish, and anarchy. Basically, it's Val Miran vs Miruvhor vs Nexus. The other cabals are either absorbed directly (ex: Mir gets Savant and Val gets Warmasters) or the new cabals use multiple sub-cabals to replicate them. (Each cabal would have a wizards council - savant, spymasters - conclave, elite guard - warmaster, royals - justice). The cabals could then shift internally via politics. Val could be 80% warmasters or both could be 90% warmasters. (Maelbrim would be a neutral but contested area.) The cabals could morph into whatever was being played by the players.

New characters would be given a clan and home town based on character creation choices (welcome to team miruvhor!) They are instantly part of a team who should care about them and help them. (If players love the ability to have a racial hometown, make the first change free. That would help newbies w/o penalizing experts.) The clan would serve as a base for RP and as the farm team for the cabal.

"If we have 24 players, we probably shouldn't have 8 teams." I agree completely and have made arguments and given example solutions to this problem (among other cabal issues we have), as have others over the years. This post summarizes my 2009 suggestion of cabal reorganization.

 

51 minutes ago, myrek said:

Balance
I think class / character "balance" is a tool that the imms should use to keep the world balanced. If no one is playing magic users cuz the Warmasters are dominant, nerf them a little - temporarily - like a handicap in golf. Not from any observation other than there are times I would not log on as certain kinds of characters due to the 1-sided group that's already logged on.

I believe this to be a very bad idea. I simply do not think it is a good idea to put such balancing tweaks in the hands of the staff, who are fallible humans. If it is restricted to senior staff members, then the answer should be to correct the underlying balance issues, not temporarily tweak them by adjusting character power based on whoever is present at that time. If you have recurring 3vs1 issues, the staff needs to solve the problem of why 3vs1 occurs so often in our game and go about it that way.

 

57 minutes ago, myrek said:

The game doesn't start until 50. Then why is pk possible at 15? Why not make 25 the new 10 and 40 the new 30?

Crazy idea 3:
What could it look like if FL embraced "the game starts at 50" and being newbie-welcoming?

Create 40 quests - each teaches a key element (or multiple elements) of the game. Each gives you 1 rank. (To avoid abuse, it could be set with a level check: if lvl < 2, lvl = 2.) The 1st 15 could be general game stuff. Then you could have some that are spell / skill based. Then throw in some geography stuff for fun. Ta daa. Now you have newbies with a decent FL education who don't have to "take this jewel to Brambus" a zillion times.

Heck, you could make everyone an adventurer until lvl 40, then they could pick a class.(Dcheck would need to be adjusted - could be the final quest.) Hmmm.

There is a point of tension here. On one hand, you want more time in low ranks to slow down newbie progression, that is, to keep them safer and in a simpler environment longer. On the other hand, we don't have the content to support staying in the lower ranks. I brought this up again recently here. If you really want to be newbie-welcoming, you'd focus development on addictive, progressive, but mostly non-competitive content, such as player organizations, building, economy, and other simulation type things. Anything to take away the threat and completely time-consuming nature of competitive PK.

Alternatively, we could work on mob AI so that that jump from vs mob to vs player isn't so incredibly large. Since we don't have a newbie population to teach newbies, we might have to rely on the system to do it.

I do agree with you though, in the current situation, you may as well have one rank.

1 hour ago, myrek said:

Crazy idea 2:
Pay PLAYERS to update files, guides, areas (create new areas), etc with RP points (RPP?). Set a per character limit. So Pali could do a 100 essays that all get accepted by the staff. At 100 RPP per essay, Pali (the player) now has 10,000 RPP but can only add 500 to a single character. (Those numbers are 100% pulled out of thin air to use as an example.)

Ideally, help files should be generated from the wiki. Any player should be able to edit any help file, which then submits it to a moderator (staff and/or players) who then give it final approval, automatically updating the game. 

 

1 hour ago, myrek said:

Gear
Someone said that great AC used to be -300 and it's now -700. That kind of gear inflation has made a lot of the other gear in FL useless. There's a set of non-rare leggings you can get at 25 that's better armor than what used to be primo rare leggings for around lvl 40. I don't know if that's the way it is across the board, but it seems like it. I'm also basing this on the amount of available 2.0 rares I saw available.

1 issue this creates is that a lot of FL is now filler. You get to claim a high room count even though the areas have no purpose and may never get visited.

It also messes with the class balance. What's a 5 point skill increase worth when it's a 5% increase vs when it's 2% increase. This has turned the game into an arms race which makes it more un-newbie-friendly and leads to things like no loot corpses.

Gear is a matter of balancing. Typically, gear is designed by a builder, who probably doesn't have any real idea or plan about overall balance. That builder's work is then checked by a higher imm, who probably have a better idea of balance, but as we can see from the gear in the game, no overall plan. Unfortunately, the biases from both level of imms, but especially the higher, gets implemented in this system, so if your high imm favors melees, you'll see a lot of gear favoring melees entering the system.

So in the end, you get a bunch of gear that fits whatever the current bias of the creator is or to solve a particular problem that has been found. This means you have a ton of gear, most of which is made obsolete by the next set of builders. So, we have gear inflation in both item count and power.

I've given several solutions to the gear issue, but here are a few that jump to mind:

1. You can lessen the importance of gear on a character's power level, so the inflation doesn't matter as much. Instead, class skills (for instance) might become more powerful.
2. You can scale gear based on other character fields, such as race, class, and so forth so that extremes are leveled out or empathized.
3. You can remove all gear that does not have a utility purpose. This would help players find and understand the staff's balance, since any piece of gear remaining must have been for a particular purpose. This should be easier than it sounds, because a playerbase of 25 does not require much variety in gear.
4. You can standardize open-ended equipment fields (short desc, material) which allows for a range of options for both staff analytics and player interface options.
5. You can adopt a quantitative approach to creating gear instead of winging it every time. I can't find my posted example, but I did this both for weapons and armor:

Weapon level / 5 = target number of points

+1 hit or dam = +0.5 points
+10 hp/+20 mana/+30 moves = +1 point
Weight above 30 = +1 point
Weight below 10 = +1 point
Every avg dam above 17 = +0.5 points
fire/wrath/water/rays/frost damage type = +3 points
non fire/wrath/water magic damage type = +2 points
fire material (doesn't stack with vuln material or fire damage) = +1 point
vuln material (mithril) = +1 point
paralyze = +2 points
flaming = +1.5 points
vampiric = +1.5 points
poison = +1.5 points
sharp = +1 point
vorpal = +1 point
deadly = +1 point
wounds = +1 point
shocking = +0.5 points
frost = +0.5 points
noremove = +2 points
nodrop (doesn't stack with noremove)  = +1 point
bless/dark = +1 point
burnproof = +1 point
socketable = +2.5 points
weapon/defense prof bonus 
str/dex bonus = +0.5 points
-10 AC = +0.5 points
whip/axe/polearm/staff = +2 points
dual parry = +2 points


race unusable material (not antigood and iron or wood) = -1 point
single race or class only = -1 point
twohands = -1.5 points
unique = -5 points
rare = -3 points
anti-align = -1 point
nouncurse = -1 point
rotdeath = -1 point
stat penalty = -0.5 points
weapon/defense prof penalty = -0.5 points
+10 AC = -0.5 points
dagger = -1 point

Vorpal Blade:

Level: 54 = 10.8 total points

Weapon type is sword
Damage is 8d6 (average 28) = +5.5 points
Damage noun is cleave. = +0 points
Weapons flags: vorpal = +1 point
Affects hitroll by 3, level 54. = +1.5 points
Affects damroll by 6, level 54. = +3 points
Affects sword by 5, level 54. =+2.5 points
Extra bits: antigood noremove = +1 point
Weight: 330/330/330 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Unique = -5 points

= 10.5 points (just about right)

Arctron:

Level: 50 = 10 total points

Weapon type is exotic
Damage is 15d3 (average 30) = +6.5 points
Damage noun is shock. = +2 points
Weapons flags: twohands paralyze = +0.5 points
Affects lightning bolt by 25, level 50. = +0 points (no lightning bolt class can make use of this)
Affects hide by -50, level 50. = +0 points (no hide class has two handed)
Affects hitroll by 4, level 50. = +2 points
Affects damroll by 8, level 50. = +4 points
Extra bits: glow hum magic nodrop bless antievil burnproof = +2 points
Number: 1/1  Weight: 12/12/12 (10th pounds) = 0 points
Unique = -5 points

= 12 points (too strong weapon)

Severed Demon Talon:

Level: 49 = 9.8 total points

Weapon type is exotic
Damage is 8d5 (average 24) = +3.5 points
Damage noun is tainted slash. = +2 points
Affects hitroll by 3, level 49. = +1.5 points
Extra bits: glow evil nodrop antigood nouncurse = +0 points
Number: 1/1  Weight: 90/90/90 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Material: iron = +1 point
Casts hysteria = +2 points 
Rare = -3 points

= 10 points (just about right)

Monorod:

Level: 55 = 11 total points

Extra bits: nodrop = +1 point
Number: 1/1  Weight: 10/10/10 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Weapon type is spear
Damage is 7d8 (average 31) = +7 points
Damage noun is slice. = 0 points
Weapons flags: deadly = +1 point
Affects dex by -1, level 55. =-0.5 point
Affects hitroll by 7, level 55. = +3.5 points
Affects damroll by -1, level 55. = -0.5 points
Rare = -3 points

= 9.5 total points (so this should be a rank 48 or 50 weapon, pretty balanced)

Mithril Sabre:

Level = 40 = 8 total points

Weapon type is sword
Damage is 5d9 (average 25) = +4 points
Damage noun is slice.
Weapons flags: sharp = +1 point
Affects damroll by 5, level 40. = +2.5 points
Affects move by 30, level 40. = +1 point
Affects hp by 20, level 40. = +2 points
Extra bits: hum magic bless antievil antineutral noremove socketable = +3.5 points
Material: mithril = +1 point
Rare = -3 points

= 12 total points (too strong: rank 60 weapon, but OK due to weaker goodie melees in general, level should be raised though)

Rokujan:

Level: 52 = 10.4 total points

Weapon type is dagger = -1 point
Damage is 14d3 (average 28) = +5.5 points
Damage noun is slash. = +0 points
Weapons flags: sharp wounds = +2 points
Affects steal by 10, level 52. = +0.5 points
Affects dex by 3, level 52. = +1.5 points
Affects damroll by 3, level 52. = +1.5 points
Affects hitroll by 4, level 52. = +2 points
Extra bits: hum dark magic nodrop noremove = +3 points
Weight: 200/200/200 (10th pounds) = +0 points
Unique = -5 points

= 10 total points (good, rank 50 weapon)

Solar Mace:

Level: 50 = 10 total points

Weapon type is mace/club
Material: sunlight = +1 point
Damage is 9d5 (average 27) = +5 points
Damage noun is flame. = +3 points
Weapons flags: flaming twohands = +0 points
Affects hitroll by 3, level 50. = +1.5 points
Affects damroll by 1, level 50. = +0.5 points
Affects mace by 1, level 50. = +0.5 points
Affects two handed by 1, level 50. = +0.5 points
Extra bits: glow nodrop nonmetal burnproof = +2 points
Unique item. = -5 points

= 9 total points (tad weak for a unique)

Icebite:

Level: 58 = 11.6 points

Weapon type is mace/club
Damage is 6d8 (average 27) = +5 points
Damage noun is freezing smash. = +3 points
Weapons flags: frost twohands = -1 point
Extra bits: glow nonmetal nolocate = +0 points
Affects hitroll by 1, level 58. = +0.5 points
Affects damroll by 2, level 58. = +1 point
Affects con by -1, level 58. = -0.5 point
Affects two handed by 5, level 58. = +2.5 points
Affects shield block by -15, level 58. = -3 points
Weight: 300/300/300 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Material: ice = +1 point
Unique item = -5 points

= 4.5 total points (crap weapon, needs a big boost)

Master Forgeman's Great Hammer:

Level: 55 = 11 total points

Weapon type is axe = +2 points
Damage is 6d8 (average 27) = +5 points
Damage noun is fury. = +0 points
Weapons flags: twohands = -1.5 points
Affects damroll by 4, level 55. = +2 points
Affects hitroll by 4, level 55. = +2 points
Extra bits: glow antigood antievil noremove socketable = +2.5 points
Weight: 300/300/300 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Unique item. = -5 points

= 8 total points (useful only to neutral giants and only because of the rare noremove + socket combo, especially on an axe)

Ancient Sceptre:

Level 50: = 10 total points

Weapon type is mace/club
Damage is 12d4 (average 30) = +6.5 points
Damage noun is crush. = +0 points
Weapons flags: vampiric = +1.5 points
Affects damroll by 3, level 50. = +1.5 points
Affects hitroll by 3, level 50. = +1.5 points
Affects luck by 2, level 50. = +1 point
Extra bits: nodrop noremove burnproof socketable = +5.5 points
Unique item. = -5 points

= 12.5 total points (very beefy (more than arctron!), should be a rank 60 weapon or toned)

Fire Lance:

Level: 45 = 9 total points

Weapon type is polearm = +2 points
Damage is 16d2 (average 24) = +3.5 points
Damage noun is flame. = +3 points
Weapons flags: flaming twohands = +0 points
Affects ac by -20, level 45. = +1 points
Affects hitroll by 2, level 45. = +1 points
Affects damroll by 5, level 45. = +2.5 points
Extra bits: hum bless burnproof = +2 points
Rare item = -3 points

= 12 total points (quite good for a rank 50 weapon)

Barbed Tentacle:

Level: 50 = 10 total points

Weapon type is flail
Damage is 7d6 (average 24) = +3.5 points
Damage noun is suction. = +3 points (water, right?)
Affects flail by 3, level 50. = +1.5 points
Affects dual wield by -10, level 50. = -2.5 points
Affects hitroll by -1, level 50. = -0.5 points
Affects damroll by 5, level 50. = +2.5 points
Affects hp by 30, level 50. = +3 points
Extra bits: nonmetal burnproof = +1 point
Weight: 40/40/40 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Rare item. -3 points

= 9.5 total points (6.5 if physical) (not too bad if it hits a water vuln or magic, otherwise quite bad)

Writhing Sword:

Level: 50 = 10 total points

Weapon type is sword
Damage is 12d3 (average 24) = +3.5 points
Damage noun is hunger. = +2 points
Weapons flags: poison = +1.5 points
Affects poison by 3, level 50. = +0 points (cosmetic)
Affects int by -1, level 50. = -0.5 points
Affects wis by -1, level 50. = -0.5 points
Affects hitroll by 5, level 50. = +2.5 points
Extra bits: evil invis magic nodrop antigood nouncurse = +0 points
Material: Iron = +1 point
Unique item. = -5 points

= 4.5 total points (bad for a rank 50 unique, much better as a rank 35 rare as is)

Withering Scythe:

Level 45: = 9 total points

Weapon type is polearm = +2 points
Damage is 9d5 (average 27) = +5 points
Damage noun is life drain. = +2 points
Weapons flags: twohands = -1.5 points
Affects hitroll by 3, level 45. = +1.5 points
Extra bits: socketable = +2.5 points
Weight: 300/300/300 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Rare item. = -3 points

= 9.5 total points (good for rank 45-50)

'Hell's Fury' the Polearm of Entropy

Level: 54 = 10.8 total points

Weapon type is polearm = +2 points
Damage is 7d8 (average 31) = +7 points
Damage noun is bladed onslaught. = +0 points
Weapons flags: twohands = -1.5 points
Affects con by -2, level 54. = -1 point
Affects hitroll by 2, level 54. = +1 point
Affects damroll by 5, level 54. = +2.5 points
Extra bits: noremove burnproof nouncurse socketable = +4.5 points
Weight: 330/330/330 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Unique item. = -5 points

= 10 total points (balanced for a rank 50 unique)

Wophat Cane:

Level: 25 = 5 points

Weapon type is staff = +2 points
Damage is 4d10 (average 22) = +2.5 points
Damage noun is digestion. = +2 points
Weapons flags: twohands = -1.5 points
Affects damroll by 3, level 25. = +1.5 points
Affects hitroll by 3, level 25. = +1.5 points
Extra bits: glow hum magic antigood nonmetal socketable = +1.5 points
Rare item. = -3 points

= 6.5 points (a good rank 30-35 weapon; remember: pugil multiplies this by about 1.5 (a staff is like a weapon and a half) to make 9.75 for those classes, a good rank 50 weapon then)

Spider Blade:

Level: 40 = 8 total points

Weapon type is dagger = -1 points
Damage is 5d8 (average 22) = +2.5 points
Damage noun is sting. = +0 points
Weight: 50/50/50 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Rare item. = -3 points
Can be dual parried. = +2 points

= 1.5 total points (very crap weapon, should be rank 15, needs a boost)

Wicked Trident:

Level 35: = 7 points

Weapon type is polearm = +2 points
Damage is 5d9 (average 25) = +4 points
Damage noun is slash. = +0 points
Weapons flags: vorpal twohands = -0.5 points
Affects hitroll by 3, level 45. = +1.5 points
Affects damroll by 5, level 45. = +2.5 points
Weight: 350/350/350 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Extra bits: glow hum antigood antineutral = -2 points
Rare item. = -3 points

=5.5 total points (another bad weapon)

Fiery Dagger:

Level 29 = 4.8 total points

Weapon type is dagger = -1 point
Material: fire = +0 point (doesn't stack with fire damage)
Damage is 8d3 (average 16) = +0 points
Damage noun is flaming bite. = +3 points
Affects damroll by 4, level 29. = +2 points
 Weight: 20/20/20 (10th pounds) = +1 points

=5 points (balanced for rank 30 non-rare)

Tempest Trident:

Level: 47 = 9.4 total points

Weapon type is spear
Damage is 11d4 (average 27) = +5 points
Damage noun is torrent. = +3 points
Affects wis by 2, level 47.
Material: iron = +0 points (+1 vuln, -1 racial)
Unique item. = -5 points

= 3 total points (very bad for a rank 50 unique item)

Giant Ladle:

Level 45: = 9 total points

Weapon type is mace/club
Damage is 9d4 (average 22) = +2.5 points
Damage noun is thwack. = +0 points
Weapons flags: twohands = -1.5 points
Affects shield block by -5, level 45. = -1.5 points
Affects damroll by 5, level 45. = +2.5 points
Affects hp by 50, level 45. = +5 points
Material: Silver = +0 points
Weight: 450/450/450 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Extra bits: glow hum magic burnproof = +1 point
Rare item. = -3 points

=6 total points (weak for a rank 50 two-handed rare mace)

Segmented Stakes:

Level: 50 = 10 total points

Weapon type is flail
Damage is 13d3 (average 26) = +4.5 points
Damage noun is thorns. = +0 points
Affects damroll by 4, level 50. = +2 points
Affects hp by 15, level 50. = +1.5 points
Extra bits: glow hum nonmetal socketable = +2.5 points
Weight: 14/14/14 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Material: wood = +0 points
Rare item. = -3 points

= 8.5 total points (could use a small boost as a rank 50 rare flail)

Discordant Fiber:

Level: 50 = 10 total points

Weapon type is whip = +2 points
Damage is 6d7 (average 24) = +3.5 points
Damage noun is acidic bite. = +2 points
Weapons flags: vorpal = +1 point
Affects str by -1, level 50. = -0.5 points
Affects dex by 1, level 50. = +0.5 points
Affects damroll by -1, level 50. = -0.5 points
Affects hitroll by 6, level 50. = +3 points
Extra bits: glow magic nodrop antigood nonmetal nouncurse socketable = +1.5 points
Weight: 50/50/50 (10th pounds) = +1 point
Rare item. = -3 point

=  10.5 total points (tad strong for a rare 50 whip)

A deadly whip of bluish fire:

Level:  48 = 9.6 total points

Weapon type is whip = +2 points
Damage is 7d6 (average 24) = +3.5 points
Damage noun is whip. = +0 points
Affects flame arrow by 25, level 48. = +0 points (cosmetic)
Affects damroll by -1, level 48. = -0.5 points
Affects hitroll by 4, level 48. = +2 points
Weight: 30/30/30 (10th pounds) = +1 points
Material: fire = +1 point
Rare item. = -3 points

= 6 total points (far inferior to the discordant fiber)


Power hammer

Level: 50 = 10 total points

Extra bits: hum nodrop burnproof nouncurse socketable = +3.5 POINTS
Weapon type is mace/club
Damage is 10d5 (average 30) = +6.5 points
Damage noun is pound. = +0 points
Affects damroll by 3, level 50. = +1.5 points
Affects hitroll by 2, level 50. = +1 point
Can be used. = +1 point
Rare item. = -3 points

= 10.5 total points 

 

...and I've run out of time and need to go back to work! Sorry I didn't get to all of your points!

 

[Magick]

I'm not entirely sure which you mean, @Fool_Hardy.  This one?

 

[Mmm Coffee]

I've often thought getting rid of Savant and WM would be good for the mud.  I've never felt they offered any depth or political role to FL.  I get it that they're kind of the "training grounds" for melee and mage but aside from that, they're kind of dull and don't contribute much to the realm (just my opinion).  I'd rather see these players absorbed into the cabals that more or less shape FL.  Tribs, Knights, Nexus, Syndi and occasionally Watcher when they're active.

[f0xx]

I am bleeding from my eyes right now.

[Pali]

Savant and Warmasters also no longer have the hard ideological conflict that defined them when they were first created.  Neither has a true goal for the world - Savants aren't trying to force everyone to be a mage or accept the domination of mages, and Warmasters aren't ideologically opposed to magic anymore, leaving both effectively playing the role of opposing martial schools; rivals, perhaps, but blood enemies with a never-ending war?  Back when the cabals were created Warmasters were anti-magic fanatics dedicated to destroying all mages, and Savant was a group of mages allying together to defend themselves - Savant was the more passive cabal here, but it had well-defined purpose nonetheless, and Warmasters had a clear ideology behind it.

 

Now, neither cabal has a clear ideology: both largely boil down to being clubs for their respective classes to perfect their skills.

[Kyzarius]

Actually from a lore standpoint, if my memory serves me, Warmaster was formed to protect the general populace from the mages of the tower who had been abusing them.  Experimenting on them and overall endangering the populace through their wild use of time magic. They rose to show that self reliance is superior to magic.  

In truth these things still happen.  Savants often times do things like..blow up cities.  While wm does things like free mind controlled halflings.

[Pali]

Either way, the current purpose remains a fairly vague one, and Savant's purpose remains being Heralds who focus on magical knowledge rather than world history.  Neither makes sense as a world-conquering organization, at least not to anywhere near the degree that the other cabals do.

[Mmm Coffee]

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

I am bleeding from my eyes right now.

I know you like WM, but my thought process basically comes down to what Pali is saying.  They don't have a goal that includes the rest of the world.  Every other cabal does in some way.  You could say the WM challenge system includes the rest of the world but challenges aren't real PK's.  Watcher has war with Tribs but also with certain qthings.  Tribs have war with Watcher/Syndi but also criminals.  Nexus vs. Knight but also anyone they want.  Knight vs. Nexus but also evils in general.  Syndi has the bounty system.

Eliminate the two cabals who don't really "matter" and suddenly the 5 cabals we focus on blossom with more activity.  I think you'd end up with less empty cabals and less 3-on-1 warfare situations.  I don't know how the army system would be rectified but collectively that could be figured out.

[myrek]

So I'm going to sum up most of @Celerity 's post as "You're right for the most part, Myrek. You're a wise and handsome man" so that I can address the disagreements.

The biggest simple difference between my recommendations and your recommendations are that mine are more about repurposing existing systems w/o inventing new things. If we can fix most issues with existing systems, it would let the coder do less things better.

I like you gear level system. (Although it makes me sad to see rare gear stats on the forum.  )

About you thinking my balance comment is a bad idea. You made my case for me. We're all imperfect humans. Since perfect balance is impossible, err on the side of helping the underdogs. Also there is a built in system for this. I forget what it's called. But Imms have the ability to secretly give a player "bad luck". I forget the details. It's been 10 years. 

"There is a point of tension here. On one hand..." referring to just moving the game to 50. That supports my idea for the imms to release their goals for FL. If we all knew what the goal was, we could support it. Do we want an awesome game at 50? Do we want a mud that is an enjoyable romp from 1 to 49? Even if both are possible in the long term, both can't be fixed at the same time.

On a side note, the Academy never had a chance. How long was it up before the pwipe? Hard to have a clan for semi-retired characters when everyone is starting over at 0. Add the fact that it's a clan and it's a recipe for nonparticipation. 

For the folks who are saddened by the cabal comments. It isn't a matter of like or dislike or this group has better RP or that group has better cookies. It's a matter of numbers. It seems silly to have cabals if they don't all have 3 - 5 active players. You can't balance things that way. This is paper, scissors, rock, lizard, spock. It only works when all 5 are there. In fact the only group to suffer in my (hastily made) idea is Justice. As soon as Nobles were added, they became redundant. The simplest way to create balance is to divide things down the middle and make both sides the same. Make sense?

[Grim_Reefer]

I thought academy was the herald feeder. Furthermore, why is herald a mail service? The help file says theyre relic hunters and knowledge keepers to the highest degree. Super secret society of elitists type thing. 

[Kyzarius]

17 hours ago, Pali said:

Either way, the current purpose remains a fairly vague one, and Savant's purpose remains being Heralds who focus on magical knowledge rather than world history.  Neither makes sense as a world-conquering organization, at least not to anywhere near the degree that the other cabals do.

Well no that's not it at ALL.  Savant is very open to interpretation of course.  But NONE of my savant's rp'ed the tower as having the purpose of being heralds of magical knowledge.  And I have a laundry list of E, and L Savants.  

Rathanous and Sepahoona both actually RP'ed that is hogwash taught to lesser beings who cant even begin to comprehend what the Tower REALLY is. 

[myrek]

I hope you didn't think this was in any way about RP viability. It's about numbers. If you have 5 people you play basketball, not football.

[Lloth]

17 hours ago, myrek said:

About you thinking my balance comment is a bad idea. You made my case for me. We're all imperfect humans. Since perfect balance is impossible, err on the side of helping the underdogs. Also there is a built in system for this. I forget what it's called. But Imms have the ability to secretly give a player "bad luck". I forget the details. It's been 10 years. 

Please don't perpetuate this notion. Even IF that possibility exists (been an imm for years and have never seen or heard of such a thing), it is certainly not anything our current staff would do. We simply do not gimp or buff any characters except when they get outcast in cases where they broke rules or their class is affected by being outcast (ie DKs,  paladins, clerics, etc.). We get enough accusations without this notion being put in anyone's head.

[Pali]

3 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

Well no that's not it at ALL.  Savant is very open to interpretation of course.  But NONE of my savant's rp'ed the tower as having the purpose of being heralds of magical knowledge.  And I have a laundry list of E, and L Savants.  

Rathanous and Sepahoona both actually RP'ed that is hogwash taught to lesser beings who cant even begin to comprehend what the Tower REALLY is. 

What individuals have done with Savant is different from how Savant is described in help files and generally portrayed.  Yes, calling them magical Heralds was an exaggeration, granted - but Savant as a cabal has limited purpose beyond the idea of acquiring mystical knowledge.  Why does Savant try to conquer the world?  What is the long-term goal of the Savants?  Knight, Nexus, Tribunal, Watcher, Syndicate, all have very clear answers to both those questions.  Savant and Warmaster do not.

[Kyzarius]

I am preetty sure 

"Tower on a quest to drive ignorance from the lands, and educate the world in the ways of magic - eradicating all those who would oppose their indoctrination. "

means to conquer the world. When you eradicate any who would stop you from indoctrinating the entire world...

 

while this @Pali is from the WM help file. 

" It is also said that those who dare heckle their ministries and reject their indoctrination, often find themselves hanging from a pike"

So we have two ideological forces that offer no quarter and will destroy anyone who opposes or denies their lessons. 

[Pali]

Both of which are very vague goals, IMO, with nowhere close to the clear-cut purpose of the other cabals - and few members of either cabal act in accordance with them in my experience.

 

Fun fact: that line in the Savant help file is specifically there because long ago I pointed this lack of direction out - it didn't even exist originally.

[mya]

Everyone know Savants exist so that we can lord our caster supremecy over meele players.
And that meele players only join Warmasters because they have this folish notion that meeles are better than casters, so they need to join the most bonused, broken cabal to compete.

Warmaster vs Savant RP is normaly OOC fueled by players, in my opinion.
If there wasn't a Warmaster and there wasn't a Savant we would be doing the same in the other Mages vs meelee cabals.

[Mmm Coffee]

^^ She pretty much nailed it.

[Erelei]

On 9/26/2017 at 6:48 PM, myrek said:

About you thinking my balance comment is a bad idea. You made my case for me. We're all imperfect humans. Since perfect balance is impossible, err on the side of helping the underdogs. Also there is a built in system for this. I forget what it's called. But Imms have the ability to secretly give a player "bad luck". I forget the details. It's been 10 years. 

This is called 'GIMP', and the player will know when it affects them.

That said, I don't think it's been used in a very long, long time. When it was used, however, the player was aware, and it was usually due to an in game violation or RP session, depending.

[Fool_Hardy]

Wish I had a log for this.

"You have been GIMPED!"

lol, I stood in @Malchaeius way too many times not to feel the full blown wrath of the heavens, on several occasions.