Character Creation and You

[Lloth]

I would like to pose a question to the player base. What do you guys and gals like about the current process and intro area? What do you not like about it? What do you wish you could do, that you can't do now?

[Fool_Hardy]

• I would like to see align/ethos selection prior to class selection to eliminate poor RP choices.
• I would like to see religion selection made last if not added vis quest in the mud school.
• Add a room to the mud school that instructs, illustrates, and demonstrates the effects of timing in the game. An instructor and some tutors battling endlessly exclaiming "perfect timing", or "poor timing" at their opponent after dirt is kicked, bashes attempted ect.

Will keep considering and see what I come up with.

[Pieman]

Just now, Fool_Hardy said:

• I would like to see align/ethos selection prior to class selection to eliminate poor RP choices.

I ask as a long time D&D DM, why do you feel this affects anything? FL does not have any hard coded alignment locks (like older edition paladin), only cabal choices. When making a character sheet your class is always the second thing chosen after your race (the sheets have always been set up that way) and alignment comes after. RP is separate and the argument could be made that it doesn't matter which choice is first, class selection often guides alignment selection. 

This being said the help files for the alignments and ethos could all do with a major overhaul.

[Tantangel]

For starters, I don't care for detailed creation. It's essentially pointless with the exception of the perks at the tail end of it all. If we keep it in, I kind of liked @Celerity's idea of just auto generating a description based on it. I would honestly say we can leave both in the game so that you can choose to create your own (giving you a chance to gain a dragon or other items and still have to go through the description process), or have it automatically generated and you'll not have to go through the process of a description check. This helps out in two ways. Newer players who aren't sure what to write down will have a leg up already and not be impeded by needing to get a check, older players can choose to do the same, and people who want to go that extra step still can so it doesn't feel like it's forced unless they want it to be.

Histories should be a requirement after level 40. Why? It's easy to roll a character and get them to 50. If we want deeper and more meaningful characters, histories would be a good start to them. That means that players will have one approved more quickly than before as well. I have created a few in the past at level 1, submitted and then by the time I hit 50 it still hadn't been approved which slightly deterred me from wanting or needing to write them for anything other than if I were going for a qclass/race. Though at the very least a room entailing it would be beneficial as well.

Basic PK instruction via MOB. It can give a more simulated feel and not be required until level 9 or so just prior to actually getting out of the Newbie era safe zone. You gain the chance to learn PK that from a newer player perspective will give them added ideas to win. Sure you have the quest from Tamara to get the vial and quaff it when Ohram comes stumbling in, but that's not enough. It doesn't give an accurate depiction of what they could be facing. Perhaps something similar to having to fight yourself like in a couple of specific circumstances.

There's a ton of reading already. I would honestly like it to be spaced out rather than just being bombarded by everything immediately. Make it capable of being traversed through level 10 or 15. Why? This gives people more time to adapt to their class than just level 5, and extending it out could give newer players a better idea as to the 'consider' command. Add in a Merchant MOB that can outfit your character. I got my first set a week or so ago, and they're all ridiculously good giving you a very large upper hand on those who didn't already know about them. This puts everyone on equal grounds as far as that goes, and it also means you can free up some room in the game by eliminating probably 30% of items in the game that are inferior to them.

BRIEF help files for the races at creation highlighting the perks and weaknesses of those races. Why bother with the extended version when it states to continue read 'help human2'? You can't read the help file during creation. If I wanted to know more, offer the help file after the character is created and not at the beginning if the information isn't going to be complete immediately. Due to its size, I have skipped pretty much every race help file after they were fleshed out. I'm not reading that. Ironic coming from me I suppose.

STAT help files instantly right before you begin adding in your points and the perks of each stat after you've added a point to each one. This means for newer players it gives them a better idea as to what they're looking at when they complete the creation process.

Instead of receiving 3 trains automatically upon creation, offer them through the varying stages of the area. You get your diploma so you get a train. You have learned how to flee, you get another train. You found your guild hall in Maelbrim? Another train. After that it's up to us to see what we can do. All three of these can be done easily prior to level 2, and if it's somehow mentioned for newer players either via quests or room description, it encourages exploration.

First weapon choice should be bumped to 75% instead of 40% while the cap to 80% should be bumped to 85%. It doesn't hurt the game at all by doing so, and in my case I never practice it to get it to 75% unless I accidentally do so (which I have maybe four or five times in 16 years).

Automated RP. You can skip it if you already had done it before with other characters, but by doing it you gain 1RP point. It gives newer players incentive to want to RP and introduces them to both the help file for RP and gives them an idea of what to look forward to. It could be programmed to various words, or even offer varying ideas for Evil RP or Good RP and such based off your selection of character.

[Fool_Hardy]

@MasterOfPie As long as a player can create a broken character, i.e. neutral dark knight/neutral cleric, we should care.

It does not make the new player feel ignorant if they make an improper choice that the game allows. It makes the new player consider the game to be ignorant.

Perspective is everything, and a new players first perspective will come from character creation.

Just my opinion, but not every potential new player will have played D&D.

Edit: Come to think of it. Religion should come before class selection too, no more atheist paladin selections possible.

[Pieman]

Thanks @Fool_Hardy! Would the better solution be to just remove those options based on class decision?

[Fool_Hardy]

Either way. We step toward progress. 

 

[Magick]

The first thing that comes to mind with the order are hardcores not lumped in with moderates and ruthless.  If this is because of the adventurer class, then IMO, anyone who picks adventurer should be an auto-smurf and possibly get auto-journeyman.  Applying out of their smurf status TBD.
Instead of:
Race -> Mod/Ruthless -> Adventurer ->  Hardcore -> Class
Make it:
Race -> Adventurer -> H/R/M -> Class
This will make the 3 or 5 selections take 2 or 4.

 

There's also the inability to select perks if one were to choose to skip detailed selection.  This has been mentioned before, I know.  For most, perks are the only reason details are done.  Everything else in that section, while nice, is entirely optional and has little to no impact in game.
Body type, face, hair color.  Descriptions cover this.
Age, while at one point served a purpose, it doesn't any longer since we got rid of age related stat changes.  It's made even more redundant after the notice that RP trumps the age anyway and the bio age should be more or less ignored.  With hours in a character, aging from 15% of my age (120 years) to 457 years after 915 hours is fine, for a dwarf.  Not so much for a human.  Still a nice option in the beginning, though.
Left or right handedness?
The only one that makes a slight impact is favored weapon in that you start with that particular practice weapon instead of the default.
So yeah, detailed creation is fine, but make perks independent from it.
Another way to look at it is detailed creation is all external.  Perks are more internal.  People can see you're old or stout at a glance, but they can't always see that you're heroic or pious.

 

That turned out longer than expected.  To think that the next was my main gripe.

I have a problem with the lack of help file access during certain sections.  People selecting a class might wish more information given to them other than the general help file for that class.  Warriors for example:  "See also: WARRIOR LORE, WEAPON MASTERY, WEAPON EXPERTISE, MERCY, FLEE", but only after you finish making your character or restart entirely.

 

I had the opportunity to walk someone through their first character on FL some weeks ago.  Sadly, I didn't log that.  But I don't think there was anything inherently wrong with the MUD school, except the name.  MUD school or academy: one reads OOC, hypocritical for an RP enforced MUD, while the other can get confused with the clan.  For example, and while it doesn't roll off the tongue as easily, the Adventurer Staging Grounds fits better atmosphere wise.

Though thinking about it, doesn't AR/CF or some others have basically the same school?  Take the particular elements we have here and let us have a bit of a redesign.  Or something.  That one feels a bit straw-graspy.

[f0xx]

The only thing that bugs me about character creation is the physical detailed description choices. Those just need to go.

The other one is the constant confirmations needed.

What race do you want to be?

Are you sure?

What class?

Are you sure?

What sex?

Are you sure?

YES I AM SURE!

[Tantangel]

Those questions are just leading up to the game asking you if you want the "D" or not. Can't leave a game hanging like that.

[Aidon]

10 minutes ago, f0xx said:

The only thing that bugs me about character creation is the physical detailed description choices. Those just need to go.

The other one is the constant confirmations needed.

What race do you want to be?

Are you sure?

What class?

Are you sure?

What sex?

Are you sure?

YES I AM SURE!

How funny would it be if those confirmations were only there for you, and everyone else it just went straight through creation? Like some IMP years ago decided your IP couldn't be trusted.

[f0xx]

1 hour ago, Aidon said:

How funny would it be if those confirmations were only there for you, and everyone else it just went straight through creation? Like some IMP years ago decided your IP couldn't be trusted.

That would be pure evil...

[Fool_Hardy]

So you are all saying you have NEVER pressed (n)?

Somehow I find it hard to believe that the confirmation only benefits an old fool.

 

Edit: Yeah, and deleted it too. Not constructive.

[Fool_Hardy]

On topic.

The "entrance" you speak of, The Mud School.

Here is what I cam up with.

We revamp the layout of the school. While keeping with the traditional mud lessons it provides, we add rooms to inform players of some of more adept things they may need to know. A room as I stated that demonstrated timing. A room that demonstrates guild quests of each caliber, all targets within the area. A room where the benefits of drugs and alcohol are being discussed. Add a class ring on top of the diploma for those who complete all the quests within. Restyle the arena with a flag in each corner, an savant guards one, a war master another, a knight the third, and a nexian the last. Based on alignment or ethos one of them will ask you to capture his enemies flag.

1. Did an easy chore.                                 (did your homework)
2. Did a medium chore.                            (delivered your homework)
3. Did a hard chore.                                   (took back your lunch money)
4. Salvaged the War Master's Honor.     (gave a nerd a swirly)
5. Graduated.                                              (didn't drop out)
6. Earned a class ring                                 (worked all summer)

[Grim_Reefer]

I would like to see a main story line quest that will take you to level 30. 

The path along this quest will introduce the major areas, point out where more consumables are, point out where more gear is, etc.

The point of this is to have a total noob follow the quest line and by 30 know where to get armor, sanc, flight, bless, recall, detect invis, etc.

The quest now ends at killing the kids in the sewers and is too low level to really introduce anything. When its over, its like, "ok, now wtf?"

[Dale]

Have it ask if you want to go for a qrace.

[Lloth]

22 minutes ago, Dale said:

Have it ask if you want to go for a qrace.

And do what with that information?

[Dale]

Okay, you asked;

1. ask if you want to go for a qrace

2. alert said immortals of applicant

3. ?

4. profit

[Lloth]

We are alerted of the applicant when we get the application. Religion is noted by us when descriptions come in, and logs/notes are awarded by the imm responsible for apps of that variety of qthing (as much as possible within reason of time elapsed and other duties) to ensure that the imm in charge of that app is deciding on the relevancy and rewards are in line with what they are looking for.

 

For example, if I see a human DK with the Discord religion, I take charge of the notes, journals, and logs, and do personalized RP along the way. 

 

All this suggestion would do is tell us what we already know.

[Dale]

I was just trying to contribute to the conversation.  I was defeated.

[Lloth]

Contributions are always welcome!

[mya]

Just that we could have the adventurer practice list already practiced at 2% or 45% when not chosing an adventurer.
Chosing adventurer and going to L30 gives you ~10 free pracs which are equals to 10 HP. Since I escape many times sub 10 hp, I'm compeled to make an adventurer everytime I create a new character. But I hate it.

We should not be rewarding things that do not contribute to the game. A veteran player playing an adventurer during 5-10h is a veteran player that spends less 5-10h at L50 interacting with other players. On a 100 hours character, that is a sizable portion of play time.

[Dale]

Basic skills everyone should already have a basic grasp on?

[Magick]

23 minutes ago, mya said:

A veteran player playing an adventurer during 5-10h is a veteran player that spends less 5-10h at L50 interacting with other players. On a 100 hours character, that is a sizable portion of play time.

Just because that person isn't interacting at 50 with other 50s doesn't mean that person isn't interacting with 50s.  Or other people in general.  There's more to do than PK, you know.

[Fool_Hardy]

I am a bit confused by @mya's post.

Does she speak of the practices she retains via adventurer skills already learned? Because I count far more than tem practices there.

Personally, if I go adventurer, its for one of two reasons, and neither has anything to do with added HP.

1. I want to play a c/c, my playtimes do not often allow for groups, so adventurer gives me access to fast ranking with high level pets.
2. I want to harvest some RP for my character, and make a name for myself, prior to committing to this guild/cause or that.

Some will go for the HP. But I do not believe that spending 5-10 hrs as an adventurer will cause me to stop playing as "whatever class" 5-10 hrs sooner.

Unless, those hours were spent uselessly mastering skills as an adventurer, that I could have been burning time at level 50 mastering.

End of the day, no one makes you stop playing at 100 hrs, set a goal for 110 hrs for your adventurer.