Avian Ninja vs Demon BMG - 4 rounds

[Celerity]

2 minutes ago, myrek said:

@KyzariusWow. I'd really like to see that. I never pulled that off even when Llyros was casting lvl 55 spells.

 

Just do the quick math. 2 rounds = 4 or 5 call lightnings = 150-200x5 damage. More if you throw a hellstream or something to cap it off for the last one. Plus your shields, charmies, whatever.

[Pali]

Hell, I've had an invoker accidentally two round someone when they stumbled into a fight of mine.  Four call lightnings or fireballs as well as a couple explosions from a firestorm?  Definitely possible.

[myrek]

2 minutes ago, Celerity said:

Just do the quick math. 2 rounds = 4 or 5 call lightnings = 150-200x5 damage. More if you throw a hellstream or something to cap it off for the last one. Plus your shields, charmies, whatever.

Not the best example since it can't always be used, but I see your point.

What are your thoughts on the other side of the fight, the ninja's offense? I agree that ninjas and thieves should have to rely on their other abilities. But (assuming that the weapons / hit roll / dam roll weren't garbage) the ninja did practically no damage. If he had been buffed, he could have survived but not won.

How long does study take? Doesn't it take days (in game time)? 

Not trying to stir the pot, I've not experienced a 1-sided loss like this except if I was naked/unequiped or as a caster with my spells down.

[Kyzarius]

I three spelled a demon with Lelleiala.  

Hypnosis.  Singularity, Disintegrate.  

ask @egreir i think it was his.

 

[Lloth]

2 hours ago, Fireman said:

The moment you loot a corpse you get a bloody timer, btw. But I️ guess one person could loot and the other sac

Which is what I was referring to

[aaa]

Vs an unsanced avian, using hurricane. Yeah 

[Celerity]

Is study around still? I've been kinda unclear about if ninja can still assassinate or not. If it follows the old mechanics, it takes about 5 minutes real time for a full study + memorize, assuming good rolls on the study. More often, it takes somewhat longer, maybe 10 or more minutes.

My thoughts on the ninja's offense? I think the ninja could have done a ton more damage if they had more time or better tactics. The battlemage landed stuff first shot and was fighting with every advantage. In a real fight with some length, fired weapons + autothrows will really stack up. Or even just poison alone.

I played a Syndicate drow ninja (Kaylia) that had a fairly mediocre melee output (horrible compared to modern ninja) and could run through anything that couldn't lag me (including elites, such as Zaulael (sp?), @jibber's battlemage --> lich). So, if I was playing a weaker race, with a weaker lore, with a weaker version of ninja against (probably?) a better player and win fairly easily in melee, I think this ninja can do it too. Kaylia probably wasn't as successful as Kotarg though. @f0xx You are setting the bar too high here

Completely annihilated by any giant lagger though, so that is where the careful part came into play.

Interestingly @H&R's Virarc (tribunal BATTLEMAGE) caused one of my only deaths, forcing me to mob death in whatever that palace (Gasteride's Fortress?) is called north and east of old Rheydin...getting forgetful here. He landed a faerie fire, blind + ensnare..and I couldn't cure the blind. Eventually ran out the ensnare doing loops blind (easy in Rheydin), but I was bouncing between mobs by the time blind + faerie fire wore off and died. So even a battlemage can kill a ninja, if they are aggressive enough.

Other deaths were to Jibber as Heurajc (sp), ogre berserker warmaster who surprised me and lag locked in a third cabal (he ambushed me at the Tribunal guardian) and Gruudik (Dale?), ogre ranger watcher who killed me in 4 rounds (I was fully prepped, he was fully surprised) -- failed strangle to assassinate, green dragon bash and I was dead before it wore off. That was a frustrating one. Plus a couple of "RP" deaths around the time of an RP plot (Mindflayer's Tribunal Grum and some Watcher later).

[myrek]

15 minutes ago, Celerity said:

Is study around still? I've been kinda unclear about if ninja can still assassinate or not. If it follows the old mechanics, it takes about 5 minutes real time for a full study + memorize, assuming good rolls on the study. More often, it takes somewhat longer, maybe 10 or more minutes.

Played a ninja on Halloween. There are 2 versions of study now. Wasn't Falcon Eye but it took forever to get 1 study done and the odds of assassination still weren't in my favor. But that system isn't 100% the same as the live version. Study being so slow plus no one ever sitting in town, I'd have guessed that ninjas were much more reliant on (and much more capable at) toe-to-toe melee now.

[f0xx]

8 hours ago, Celerity said:

I don't really see the point of disallowing sacrificing in combat. If you want to eat the lag for it, go for it if they give you the opportunity. Why eliminate the tactical option? If you spam, you'll be punished just like if you spam anywhere else.

If Erelei says it's a good change, then it's a good change Cel. No arguing about it.

[Erelei]

You can stop now.

This change hasn't been made. It was a suggestion, I commented it was a good idea. There have been other suggestions since, which make sense.

If you'd take time to offer suggestions rather than veiled disagreements, maybe you would have noticed.
 

[f0xx]

16 minutes ago, Erelei said:

You can stop now.

This change hasn't been made. It was a suggestion, I commented it was a good idea. There have been other suggestions since, which make sense.

If you'd take time to offer suggestions rather than veiled disagreements, maybe you would have noticed.

Suggestions about what exactly?

You wanted to make it so people can't sacrifice while in combat. Why? This is a valid tactic and its removal swings balance. I didn't make any suggestion because things are fine as they are now. I simply expressed my disagreement, which you ignored, so I expressed it again. You recently implemented a round of lag for sacrificing after all, which is more than enough of a penalty, and this very log is the result of that specific change.

So to the player of Lylye, if you want to blame someone for your death, blame Erelei, since he was the one to implement that change. But that would be silly, because you died due to your own and very obvious mistake, which was a result of carelessness. Blaming anything else but yourself in such a situation only speaks about one's level of skill.

In the end, if you want to improve, always blame yourself.

 

[Erelei]

I ignore half your posts since you have nothing constructive to say lately.

Not my fault for ignoring an otherwise negative response.

The comment about:

If Erelei says it's a good change, then it's a good change Cel. No arguing about it.

Was uncalled for, and still is. I'm not sure what crawled up your behind, but you let it go now. I have an idea what it is, but if you want to continue your charade of hate, you can take it to the prayer forum. 

Thanks,

[Manual Labour]

21 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

I three spelled a demon with Lelleiala.  

Hypnosis.  Singularity, Disintegrate.  

ask @egreir i think it was his.

 

Pretty sure my Watcher Psion killed Deykaris Demon DKN with one cast of Singularity. 100-0

He was not sanced and I was a stalker Leader (may not have been L at the time though)

[Kyzarius]

those modifiers could make that possible.  greenheart would add a lot of math. 

[Anume]

Why not put the lag on the get ... corpse instead of the sac. Same effect, a lot less annoying for cleaning up stuff.

[Celerity]

Or even a lag from getting or storing anything from any container...hmm...interesting! It would certainly affect consumable management.

[Magick]

All the sacrifice lag does is prevent you from cleaning up after yourself (whatever) and preventing someone from sacrificing all your stuff then and there.  Nothing stops them from preparing ahead of time to loot as much stuff as you can, running to a bolt hole and sacrificing there.  Possibly making multiple trips, depending on the journey to the bolt hole.  If someone wants to be an asshat, they're going to be an asshat.

 

34 minutes ago, Anume said:

Why not put the lag on the get ... corpse instead of the sac. Same effect, a lot less annoying for cleaning up stuff.

Same effect, but not really.  Also, would that then apply for every item grabbed or attempted to grab?

Currently the system is set up to where if you loot an item (or just get an item), you can drop it at your leisure.  It's only when it's sacrificed when the lag comes into play and doesn't matter who collected the item to begin with.
Example - current system:
A corpse is made, Killer does a "get all.corpse" and is zapped by 10 items GoodyCorpse's stuff.
Killer walks away, happy he took 7 items.
Killer in his evil lair drops and sacrifices all 7 items, paying a round of lag per each.
Asshat1 comes along and starts sacrificing all the zapped items.
-Asshat1 pays a round of lag per sacrifice before he can do it again.

Good.  Asshat1 is being an asshat, so he should get the lag.

 

New example using lag from corpse get - assuming you get lag per item, not per attempt (because what's the point if you can circumvent with get.all):
A corpse is made, Killer does a "get all.corpse" and is zapped by 10 items of GoodyCorpse's stuff.
Killer is now lagged for 17 rounds because he could touch 7 items, but the other 10 were still removed (and are now on the ground).
Asshat1 comes along and starts sacrificing all the zapped items.
Asshat1 finishes and runs away 0.5s later.
Asshat1 quaffs a vial and proceeds to wail on Killer, killing him.
a ) Asshat1 enters "order all get all corpse" --- what happens next?  Lag on get command when looting a PC corpse or ... nothing because the pets get the lag?
b ) Asshat picks high value items from Killer's corpse making sure he does one at a time, sacrificing them as he goes.

 

7 minutes ago, Celerity said:

Or even a lag from getting or storing anything from any container...hmm...interesting! It would certainly affect consumable management.

That's possibly the most evil thing I've seen in a while, Cel.

[Anume]

Pets can't loot corpses, either at all or just a limited number of items, I'd have to check.

You can't get the numbers you put in your example already anyway, unless you and the killed are both hardcore. Else you can't get more than 8 items. I don't think get all corpse works any more either, Erelei would have to confirm.

There also does not need to be one round of lag per looted item necessarily. It could be smaller as well.

I'm not sure this is even needed any more with the restrictions to looting. Maybe we should just give hardcore undead/vamps a short time corpse too to prevent the full saccing (if this is not also already the case).

@Erelei

[Tantangel]

Stone Golems can carry 3 items period, though I am unsure if they can get items specifically from someone's corpse. 'Get all corpse' was disabled when I last checked and went to punch it in out of habit and it sent an output message that said I couldn't do that basically. You can grab specific items out of the corpse via 'get <item> corpse' though.

The lag for sacrificing doesn't apply to sacrificing corpses thankfully, but it is definitely a pain if you're trying to clear up a room so you're not grabbing an item after being disarmed with a nodrop weapon so you pick up a keg or skin and begin using that instead. With the lag from sacrificing as it is now though, I'd rather just see 40 items in a room than get the extra gold from sacrificing things.

As for the ease of getting back common weapons if they're sacrificed that someone posted about, that's not always true. Some of the decent weapons that aren't rare you would need a group to get to in some cases. There's a sword for instance in Avalon that's decent between 30-40, but at 50 it's harder to get because that Black Knight takes steroids and spends 23.5 hours a day in the gym training for your ass. Some of the weapons from Blood aren't bad either for lower levels, but you can't even get them until you're almost at your peak, and by then they're not worth it. So I suppose it really depends on which weapon a person is using to be able to disarm and not be able to sacrifice. I'd rather my rare weapon be disarmed and sacrificed than my common weapon simply because most rare weapons are very easy to obtain and replace if that happens.

[Kyzarius]

19 minutes ago, Tantangel said:

 

The lag for sacrificing doesn't apply to sacrificing corpses thankfully, but it is definitely a pain if you're trying to clear up a room so you're not grabbing an item after being disarmed with a nodrop weapon so you pick up a keg or skin and begin using that instead. With the lag from sacrificing as it is now though, I'd rather just see 40 items in a room than get the extra gold from sacrificing things.

 

#alias {setweapon} {#var weapon %1;#var weapon}

#action {sends your weapon flying!} {get $weapon;wi $weapon}

[Erelei]

You can go a step further and check if it’s “someone”, set an action to “get weapon; wield weapon” when your dirt is rubbed out. And you haven’t moved. 

[Anonymous]

My offhand weapon was the monorod.

My damage output makes more sense seeing the Ivesianna vs Phobiant log.

Anonymous poster hash: 275eb...702

[Dale]

Yes Celerity that was me, thank you for the eq, at the time I didn't know where to get much on my own.  But I put that eq to good use and killed Masokant and Kurvikhel!  Those were good times.  I was actually talking about that to someone the other day lol.