Tribunal

[Izlimak]

I would just like the say that, in my opinion, the conduct of the current Tribunals more than exceeds any expectations of conduct that I would have imagined. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of non-Tribunals will always hate Tribunals, people most people would just prefer to run rampant across the lands and attacking anyone and anything with a pulse.

I read every complaint that is sent to me, and in the occasion that I believe a complaint to be justified, I deal with it, and I make sure that my Tribunals know that they are at fault. I find these occasions, however, to be extremely few and far between. Most complaints simply stem from people who are just pissed off about being caught commiting a crime, captured, and executed.

To the Tribunals: keep up the good work guys.

[Acerbity]

I'm personally disturbed about the complaints towards the Tribunal. The one that really urks me is. "They're evil, they're gonna attack you, they MUST be corrupted."

Let's sort this out. Evil does not mean Chaotic. It never has, and it never will be. Seeing these notes to HOPE/MILITIA talking about how Evil can never be Justice is really getting on my nerves. Your post, Dale, "And the tribunals will leave town to attack you since well they are evil" isn't valid at all. Because they're evil they'll do that? Don't you remember the old Justices? Didn't Chrinchton do that all the time, as long as with that Leader Cleric? (Can't remember his name..) They were both goodies, but they were never complained about on the forum.

Secondly, why would you not consider yourself breaking any laws if you openly threaten a Tribunal, openly SPIT on one, and run out of town without sheathing when they ask you? What's wrong with SHEATHING? I've personally seen this done several times, and the Tribunal have been lenient, but personally, I'd mark your *** as soon as you left the room without sheating.

Thirdly, why should good justice be different then evil justice? As I've been told by several friends, out of game, and in game, what's the difference? Personally, I think a good justice is more apt to mark an evil criminal then a good one, simply because they'll take the word of the good one, or completely forget whoever made whatever crime. As for evil, you DO see more evils marked, don't you? At least, I do, and I haven't seen many goodies marked, except for a few paladins/clerics/healers who enjoy turning some zombies . Watcher? Yes, I'd outlaw them personally as well. After seeing about 5 of them jump on two Tribunals the other day, breaking everyone out of jail, etc, I'd make sure nothing protected them in the cities. Obstruction, it's hideous, and with the current Tribunal members, NOT tolerated.

There's nothing wrong with Tribunal.

[Boy Kid Wonder]

Well I don't think that obstruction is obstruction unless its in a place that has laws. Which any place outside of towns and not at the cabal is lawless. Thusly you should be able to do whatever the hell you want.

If you spit on an American cop in Mexico can they take you in? No. They have no juiristiction to do and cannot. American laws are not in place there, so they are, basically, powerless to stop you.

[Chayesh]

HELP LAWFUL EVIL:

Deceptive and manipulative, lawful evils augment their own power through their use of laws and circumstances. Direct confrontation is seldom necessary when their are most efficient and clandestine ways to solve one's problems. When pressed, however, lawful evils are prone to violently shedding their guise of unwillingness, in sudden and unexpected displays of force. They will not break laws even when it appears safe to do so, both out of possibility of the abrupt arrival of Justices and to avoid the appearance of being blasphemous to the gods of Order.

Being Evil has nothing to do with Order or Law. It has to do with being motivated by self rather than motivated by the common good. One can accomplish these goals either by lawful or unlawful means.

[Chayesh]

Well I don't think that obstruction is obstruction unless its in a place that has laws. Which any place outside of towns and not at the cabal is lawless. Thusly you should be able to do whatever the hell you want.

If you spit on an American cop in Mexico can they take you in? No. They have no juiristiction to do and cannot. American laws are not in place there, so they are, basically, powerless to stop you.

That's also not obstruction. Obstruction is hindering a law enforcement officer in any way from doing their duties.

[Iyorvin]

Acerbity: If that is the persons rp to not believe in evil law then that is their RP. They are not coming to the forum and saying it shouldn't be, they are doing it in game, leaving it at RP.

I know Virigoth isn't here anymore, but he once said FL is to be a lawful state. I've talked to alot of people in game and many people, even of chaotic align, are finding ways to rp around it, staying chaotic without being wanted.

At any rate, I do think Tribunal have some of the most mature players in it right now, and I havn't seen any form of abuse yet.

[Thelsyome]

If you spit on an American cop in Mexico can they take you in? No. They have no juiristiction to do and cannot. American laws are not in place there' date=' so they are, basically, powerless to stop you.[/quote']

Is there any place in FL where a wanted is safe? In other words, does the Tribunal's reach stay within certain boundaries (Like the quoted Mexico example)? If a wanted criminal stepped into Shasarazade, would the Tribunal stop hunting them because it is beyond their "reach"? NOPE. They'll chase you however far they wish in FL. This in turn means that if someone comes between a Tribunal and a criminal, no matter where they are in FL (as they have the right to chase a wanted down to the ends of Aabahran), that person is obstructing said Tribune's duties.

[Celerity]

So..start thinking of it as enforced international law then..problem solved.

[Mister E]

Thelysome is soooo right. If tribunal is american cops, then FL is america, you wanna run to mexico to be safe? then run out your timer and quit, thats mexico.

[Chayesh]

Heh...Mister E with the new FL lingo...

Logging off = Going to Mexico

Sweet.

[Teralis]

Heh...Mister E with the new FL lingo...

Logging off = Going to Mexico

Sweet.

LOL:)

[Raargant]

ROFLMAO!!!!!

If I could, I would give Mister E a dragon for making me laugh so hard.

[p3zd1sp3nx0r]

Ok but instead of being given extra powers to kill for protection they have been given extra power for bullying?

Okay,just wanted to ask because I am really upset now.I go out of the town and Tribunal attacks me and I am not wanted.I flee strike him back then he marks me as a wanted.

seems like very bad RP to me (if that is the whole story)

[Nomak]

He was attacking me out of town and when I countered attacked him I was not in town either.I have been in any cabal but warmaster and I can tell you that for now Tribunal have the strongest Pk skills I have ever seen.I don't say remove their skills just lower them a bit.Actually it doesn't mean a thing to me after I am no going to play the mud soon again.Something more...Outlaw really sux.When you get catched all yer gear is gone,no rares no thing taken ...just everything.Some outlaws are hunted others are not only because they have talked gently with one of the law enforcers.I don't know what you think but to be a outlaw at 50 is 50% screwed character.

[Sneak]

"It never has, and it never will be. Seeing these notes to HOPE/MILITIA talking about how Evil can never be Justice is really getting on my nerves."

Clearly you dont understand whats going on then, and I would suggest not commenting it out of game.

[Raargant]

Honestly, I want to laugh.

"He was attacking me out of town and when I countered attacked him I was not in town either."

That's definitely not the whole story.

"I have been in any cabal but warmaster and I can tell you that for now Tribunal have the strongest Pk skills I have ever seen."

I have been in every cabal including Warmaster, and Tribunal does NOT have the strongest set of PK skills. From what I've seen up to now, Council has only one skill, the cabal charmy, that helps out directly in PK. Adjudicator is a bit stronger, but even then, hardly what it's made out to be. And truthfully, I would take old school Justice hound over the new charmies any day.

"Actually it doesn't mean a thing to me after I am no going to play the mud soon again."

Good way to be taken seriously. Even more so because I see you in the game, this VERY MOMENT.

"Outlaw really sux.When you get catched all yer gear is gone,no rares no thing taken"

Are you kidding me? What happens when you NORMALLY get PK'd? Yeah, that's right, you lose all your equipment.

I've seen multiple cases where a random person attacks the Tribunal outside of town, lands the kill, full loots. Later, by luck, miracle, or skill, the Tribunal captures them...and what do they get back?

That's right, dependant on how many crimes the criminal has committed, usually 1-2 pieces.

"Some outlaws are hunted others are not only because they have talked gently with one of the law enforcers."

So why don't you try doing the same? If your answer is, "I don't want to," then who's to blame?

"I don't know what you think but to be a outlaw at 50 is 50% screwed character."

Okay, then you have two choices.

1) Don't piss off the Council: As of now, there are only two Council members, and only one is really active. Is that so hard?

2) Learn how to beat them. I will repeat: I will match virtually ANY cabal and compare their powers in direct battle to Tribunal, INCLUDING old school Justice, and they definitely are not inferior. Temporum, Gladiator/Barbarian, Reaver, Praetorian, etc. etc. Every single one has more skills that help directly in battle, and I will stack any of them, in battle, against a Tribunal Adjudicator. Tribunal does have several skills that makes it hard to get away...but if you are running away, that means you were losing to begin with.

Basically, virtually every single person here who is complaining, would not be complaining if the same happened from any other cabal. If you spat on a Nexus, or on a Knight as an evil, you would expect to get killed, full looted, and wouldn't complain.

"Ok but instead of being given extra powers to kill for protection they have been given extra power for bullying?"

If by bullying it means killing/executing you for spitting on them, then yes. If by bullying it means capturing someone who is studying you, then yes. If by bullying it means you can throw death threats at a Tribunal and expect no repercussions, then yes. If by bullying it means deciding to exile people who repeatedly attack you, or attack lawful mobs/jail guards/etc., then yes. In other words, if by bullying it means doing what ANY member of ANY other cabal would do, then yes. Absolutely, Tribunals have more powers for 'bullying' people. These are all actual complaints that I, as just a 'standard' IMM, have read, from notes or the prayer forum. I'm sure Izlimak could provide more examples if he wanted to.

Having played a Justice, as well as Justice IMM, I know exactly what the problems with old school Justice was. People showed them NO respect at all, especially compared to other cabals, because they could get away with it.

Because they could attack and gangbang the Justice out of town 3-1 when he was chasing a criminal, and nothing would happen.

Sorry. Those days are over. Show Tribunals the respect you would show any caballed person, or face the consequences you would face in acting that way against any cabal.

That means no more emoting pissing on Justice (which I've seen happen). No more defecating, and handing them poo (which I've seen happen). No more attacking them out of town, getting your *** beat, running back into the city, then spamming 'laugh Justice' at them (which I've seen happen). No more nice, fat gangbangs outside town while the Justice is chasing a criminal, without repercussion (which we've ALL seen happen). No more verbally abusing them, calling them "idiots," "dumbasses," "bastards", without expecting something to happen.

The Tribunal, unlike the Justices, are no longer the leg of a chair for the dog to piss on.

And, to be honest, that makes Tribunal a much, much better cabal. Gentlemen, learn to deal with it.

[Nomak]

Yes I will deal with it,next time I log in I will group with two or three others and gangbang all of them.Because when I am going to kill one Tribunal he calls another immediately and that's lame.

"Council has only one skill, the cabal charmy, that helps out directly in PK"

I don't feel fair for just a member to get a charmie that can disarm,bash,bodyslam,has three or four attacks(lacerates or dismembers) a round,jumps automatically in front of his master,can track others and is level 55.With my pinnacled decked warrior the charmy is outdamaging me.

I know that even with thousand posts like this nothing will change because the Imm's never hear the pbase.It is the pbase that keeps the mud alive and ask those who have fought Tribunals what do they think.Every change,every new thing must fit the avarage player and allow him to deal with it.I am an avarage player and I can tell you that I cannot deal with two of those Tribunals I tried anything but I cannot.So then I guess I must stop playing because of this cabal.

[Raargant]

Riiiight. Go do that, you big, tough, man, you. Organize a gangbang to defend your right to spit on caballed chars in peace.

[Sneak]

Tribunals got by far the most powerful cabal skills - and Ive been in all cabals.

Also theyre a lot more powerful than the old justice too.

[Raargant]

Absolutely, positively, not, from a perspective of being able to see all Tribunal skills, having tested them on test, and having viewed them on main. If they were, then the cabal wouldn't have been all but dead for months, and the horde of Tribunals when the cabal first opened would've dominated. And that's not even mentioning the fact that the vast majority of their skills don't work on non-criminals, whereas most cabal skills work on anybody.

[Nomak]

You may have tested them,but I play every day agains them and I will tell you once again I play for four years and I cannot beat one cabal charmie.

"the vast majority of their skills don't work on non-criminals, whereas most cabal skills work on anybody."

Then they won't have any problem using their skills when they made six people outlaw for five minutes.

[Nomak]

If you want the mud more enjoying just low a bit their skills.I don't think that's it's enjoyable for anyone to get jailed because he got killed in a round.

[Raargant]

"I don't feel fair for just a member to get a charmie that can disarm,bash,bodyslam,has three or four attacks(lacerates or dismembers) a round,jumps automatically in front of his master,can track others and is level 55."

I would edit this for being cabal information, except for the fact that it is COMPLETELY wrong and exagerrated. The fact of the matter is, the Blood Guard, for the most part, is WEAKER than the Guard Captain which Justice used to have.

"With my pinnacled decked warrior the charmy is outdamaging me."

Complete, absolute BS. I'll make you a deal. Give me your so-called decked warrior, and I'll give you a blood guard. If I don't beat the blood guard, I'll delete my IMM acount.

"I know that even with thousand posts like this nothing will change because the Imm's never hear the pbase."

Oh, no. We hear you. You just happen to be wrong, as this recent edit of yours shows very clearly. Wrong about situations, and wrong about cabal powers. If we never heard the pbase, I wouldn't be wasting my time completely disproving your post point by point.

"Every change,every new thing must fit the avarage player and allow him to deal with it."

Agreed. And so far, the average player has not been having trouble with Tribunals. In fact, if you don't attack them, it's all but IMPOSSIBLE to have trouble with Tribunals.

"and I can tell you that I cannot deal with two of those Tribunals I tried anything but I cannot."

And I've seen your battles. Assuming you are referring to the vampire and the necromancer, it's not the Tribunal powers that beat you, it was the character who beat you.

Tribunal powers have not been changed at all since the cabal was implemented MONTHS ago. Suddenly, however, you begin complaining about how unbeatable the current Tribunals are.

That, to me, and to most reasonable people, says that it's not the powers. It's the specific Tribunes.

"So then I guess I must stop playing because of this cabal."

Refer to previous post about seeing you connected to the MUD while you were posting.

"You may have tested them,but I play every day agains them and I will tell you once again I play for four years and I cannot beat one cabal charmie."

Refer to previous statement, and I stand by that absolutely. The cabal charmy has been COMPLETELY unchanged from original Justice. Completely, 100% unchanged, except that for Council, it's even WEAKER than it was before. Give me your char, and I'll give you the Blood Guard, and we'll see who beats who.

"Then they won't have any problem using their skills when they made six people outlaw for five minutes."

I'm sorry, if you refer to the situation with the Watchers and the Hopefuls, which several IMM's saw, that was a massive anti-Tribunal gangbang of five to six chars (not all at the same time) against two, involving, amongst other things, a crusade against GNOMES. What'd you expect, hugs and kisses?

"If you want the mud more enjoying just low a bit their skills.I don't think that's it's enjoyable for anyone to get jailed because he got killed in a round."

Again. It's not the Tribunal powers that are you killing, it's the Tribunes. If you are getting killed in a round because of three strong zombies and two golems, don't say that it's the cabal charmies that is beating you up. Because it's not. The cabal charmy has only been WEAKENED, since Justice. NOT buffed.

[Nomak]

You are right for yourself,as I told you this post will change nothing so I will no longer answer.Thanks

[Sneak]

"With my pinnacled decked warrior the charmy is outdamaging me."

Complete, absolute BS. I'll make you a deal. Give me your so-called decked warrior, and I'll give you a blood guard. If I don't beat the blood guard easily, you can have my IMM account.

I can confirm Raargant here - it does no where near the amount of damage compared to the old justice hound.