Abusing Poison should lead to toxic

My suggestion has nothing to do with magic-resist races.  It's specifically around abusing self-poisoning.  As I've thought a little more about it, I had this idea:

Consuming a poison does two new things:  Starts a 24-hour toxicity timer (which is reset each time new poison is consumed), increases a toxicity variable

So random character A, let's just call her Cinera, drinks an herbal brew.  His affects now show Poison 2hrs and Toxicity 24hrs.  3 ticks later he shows only Toxicity 21hrs (since poison has expired).  The toxicity variable is equal to the initial value of timer = 24.  Every tick, toxicity variable goes down.  So after 3 ticks (in above scenario) both the timer and variable = 21.  Now, if Cinera consumes another poison at this moment, the timer resets to 24, but the variable gets +24 ( for total = 45 ).

Everyone with me so far?

As this trend continues, basically a threshold needs to be established above which, Cinera goes toxic.  So let's say that threshold is 60.  If Cinera consumes another poison (+24 toxicity) within the next 8 hours, their toxicity > 60 and thus become toxic (or has an increasingly high chance to).  Otherwise, once the timer hits 0, so does the toxicity variable regardless of how high it was.  So in other words, if you're using poison every once in a while - you're fine.  But if you're puttin' 'em back like a dwarf at a desert bar...it comes with a risk.

The penalty for becoming toxic can be up for discussion but this is what my OP was about.  Now the key word here is "consumed" - cast/communed poison should not count toward this IMO.

I'm still confused how it's a problem, I've played a good many ninja a couple thieves and I never had a problem I'll throw some advice out there for anyone who can't see the tactics to get around the poison brew.

Needler stalk, smoke that bad boy and watch for the drop on the poison. Feel free to dirt, blind before that tick when it drops, flee blackjack strangle.

Or steal for thieves, set an anti magic or eye duster. Can't drink when you're not able to see it, and I believe there is a slight lag on hitting a trap still to assist with the anti magic dispel poison blackjack combo.

Creating an affect for smart counterplay isn't an answer here IMHO. Trust me I understand the frustration for the Rouge,  however I learned that it's worth it in the end. Because you have to outplay your opponent for the kill and that feeling is better than anything in the game. 

M2c

FYI. This suggestion regarding poison had nothing to do with rogues in the first place.

You're right Morl, I just hoped to suggest a few things as counter discussion. However I'm sure the thieves will have to get a buff since picking things off people's inventory is such a taxing process. Heh :P

@Mmm Beer  Ok, how about instead of telling us how your idea is going to work, you explain why the game needs such a mechanism at first place?

The use of herbaw brews is not an abuse. Its how they are supposed to be used. Using something the way it is supposed to be used is not an abuse. That is its intended use. Now, if the people who head this game want to buff classes with knockout abilities, that's a completely different subject. But honestly, I don't think thieves, vampires, PSIs and necromancers need buffing though. You yourself played a very capable necromancer recently, did he need to put foes to sleep in order to be successful? Ninjas are a completely different subject too, since they need a rework akin to bards.

That being said, once again, being poisoned has a HUGE downside. It's a self inflicted drain effect. Keep yourself poisoned for the duration equivalent of 2 brews while in active PK and you will very fast find yourself without moves. "Oh you can sleep two hours and regain your movement". Well then, if you are sleeping and recovering this means you aren't poisoned, and if you aren't poisoned, this means you are vulnerable, and if the other guy is not after you when you are vulnerable, then that's the other's guy problem.

I also always figured it the downside of playing a magic resist race to not be able to poison yourself.

How else could you weaken that dwarf sigil cleric who never dies if a thief couldn't blackjack and pry his top items?

Every class combo needs a nemesis...

It is very likely that the poison working for magic resistance races solely for this one container is a bug.

Reason: poison level is calculated by volume of contend of the container apparently. If a ninja would envenom any other container it still would not work for the magic resistance race (unless lotus scourge, once we get that path fixed)

Morl fixed this bug and got tarred and feathered for it.

We could alternatively just adjust this one container to be like any other barrel, which would stop this bug as well, but I guess it would result in the same amount of whining.

To Foxx's point - why do we need drug-addiction?  Why do we have recall lag?  Why does milk bypass dysentery when any time I drink it in RL, it practically gives me dysentery?  I made a recommendation based on a pattern I've observed playing one of those "knock out" classes.  A pattern that does not hold up to what you're saying about the down-sides to self-poisoning.  Two opponents over the past week spent the better part of an entire hour+ (real time) poisoned and I couldn't do anything about it due to saves and other cabal-related things. 

Move regen can be very easily accounted for with items/scrolls.  HP loss, if you have cure abilities, also accounted for.  Mana regen - unless you're spending huge amounts of it, it's not really an issue.  Yes, sure, eventually someone has to actually sleep for a couple hours.  That's when they disappear, then reappear a few ticks later.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about it.  I think it's a cool idea that actually makes sense.

5 hours ago, H&R said:

I also always figured it the downside of playing a magic resist race to not be able to poison yourself.

How else could you weaken that dwarf sigil cleric who never dies if a thief couldn't blackjack and pry his top items?

Every class combo needs a nemesis...

Just a thought on this:

An evil thief won't be too effective against a sigil cleric for cabal skill reasons. 

A neutral thief shouldn't be aggressing a good without having been aggressed first due to neutral restrictions. Since a sigil shouldn't be aggressing a neutral, they will never fight. Outside of a Syndicate collecting a bounty, that is. Unless neutral/sigil rules have changed...

A sigil cleric is weak to neutral rogues and blms, but in reality, those are extremely rare fights.

20 hours ago, Mmm Beer said:

To Foxx's point - why do we need drug-addiction?  Why do we have recall lag?  Why does milk bypass dysentery when any time I drink it in RL, it practically gives me dysentery?

The answer here is simple - because balance. For that same reason we have herbal brews. And they already have a downside, no matter how much you try to make it look like it's a very small one. Drain is not an insignificant downside.

Also, your comparison to herbs is not a fair one - herbs provide a buff. On top of that, their downside is very easy to negate. Brew on the other hand provides a counter to a skill that gives HUGE advantage if it lands. As I said, if you want a fair comparison then compare the brew to flight or protective shield. Asking for players to be punished (even further) because they use brews to avoid knocking skills is like asking players to be punished because they use flight to avoid being tripped and protective shield to avoid being bashed.

I will just mention this - every single class that has knocking abilities has some counterplay to the poison brews and the ones that do not, do not even need those knocking abilities at all in the first place (again, I exclude ninjas). Thieves out of them all have the most tactics available too.

In the end, the counterplay (brews) to the knocking ability simply creates a wider range of tactics to be used and decisions to be made - do you go for a counterplay (steal, pilfer, dispel) to their counterplay (brews), or you do go straight for the damage while having in mind they can't regenerate well?

I get it, you want to make it easier for thieves, PSIs, vamps, necros and so on to get kills. Do WE need that?

I don't want to make anything particularly easier.  My suggestion still allows for the use of brews...just limits the rate at the risk of going toxic (taking extra damage - which is just as easy to run somewhere and wait off like anything else).  A rate that would need to be determined fair.  I'd even be for cutting an hour off any knockout skill to adjust.