Monk vs Berserker

[Anonymous]

1201/1201hp
Karga throws a mighty haymaker at your jaws.
Karga's punch decimates you!
You no longer possess the spirit of the dragon.
Karga is in excellent condition. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|===]
1175/1101hp
di
Karga is blinded by the dirt in his eyes!
Your kicked dirt scratches Karga.
Karga has a few scratches. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|===]
1175/1101hp 
You dodge Karga's attack.
You dodge Karga's attack.
You parry a green dragon's attack with your first hand.
You parry a green dragon's attack with your first hand.
You have gained knowledge about beast!
Your elbow slash mauls Karga.
Your elbow slash mauls Karga.
Karga parries your attack.
Your dragon claw decimates Karga!
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.
Karga has a few scratches. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|===]
1101/1101hp
flee

You dodge Karga's attack.
You dodge Karga's attack.
You dodge Karga's attack.
The Master Forgeman's Great Hammer adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Karga's flaming bite scratches you.
"Ssluthril" the Axe of the Leviathain's Passing adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Karga's flaming bite hits you.
You are burned by the corrosive acid on "Ssluthril" the Axe of the Leviathain's Passing adorned with a glowing ember.
Karga's acidic bite scratches you.
You dodge a green dragon's attack.
A green dragon sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!
A green dragon's bash wounds you.
Your throat kick LACERATES a green dragon!
Your back fist wounds Karga.
Your elbow slash mauls Karga.
Karga parries your attack.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.
Karga has a few scratches. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|===]
1073/1101hp
Karga's eyes begin to blaze as his madness engulfs him!
Karga has a few scratches. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|===]
1073/1101hp 
You dodge Karga's attack.
You dodge Karga's attack.
Karga's fury DISMEMBERS you!
Karga's acidic bite LACERATES you!
"Ssluthril" the Axe of the Leviathain's Passing adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Karga's flaming bite hits you.
You are burned by the corrosive acid on "Ssluthril" the Axe of the Leviathain's Passing adorned with a glowing ember.
Karga's acidic bite scratches you.
You parry a green dragon's attack with your first hand.
Your back fist mauls Karga.
Your back fist mauls Karga.
Karga parries your attack.
Your palm strike misses Karga.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.
Karga has a few scratches. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|==-]
958/1101hp 
Karga knocks you senseless with a full on bodyslam!
Karga's bodyslam maims you!
Your throat kick decimates Karga!
Karga has some small wounds and bruises. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|==-]
925/1101hp
Karga's fury LACERATES you!
You dodge Karga's attack.
Karga's assault devastates you!
You parry Karga's attack with your first hand.
You dodge Karga's attack.
You parry a green dragon's attack with your second hand.
Your wrist blow misses a green dragon.
Your jab injures Karga.
You have gained knowledge about beast!
Your jab injures Karga.
Your knee thrust hits Karga.
Karga parries your attack.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.
Karga has some small wounds and bruises. 

Dhirret: [===|===|===|=--]
854/1101hp
flee
where

Karga's fury LACERATES you!
You dodge Karga's attack.
Karga's acidic bite LACERATES you!
"Ssluthril" the Axe of the Leviathain's Passing adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Your eyes tear up from smoke...you can't see a thing!
Someone's flaming bite misses you.
You are burned by the corrosive acid on something.
Someone's acidic bite scratches you.
Someone's eyes dart madly as he panics.
You parry someone's attack with your second hand.
Your wrist blow misses someone.
Someone parries your attack.
Someone parries your attack.
Your knee thrust injures someone.
Your palm strike mauls someone.
Your whirlwind kick decimates someone!
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.

Dhirret: [===|===|===|---]
762/1101hp
Someone knocks you senseless with a full on bodyslam!
Someone's bodyslam MUTILATES you!
Your throat kick MUTILATES someone!

Dhirret: [===|===|==-|---]
721/1101hp
Someone's assault mauls you.
You parry someone's attack with your second hand.
Your wrist blow misses someone.
Someone's fury DISMEMBERS you!
You dodge someone's attack.
Someone's assault MUTILATES you!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
Someone's acidic bite LACERATES you!
Something sears your flesh with flames.
Someone's flaming bite scratches you.
Something sears your flesh with flames.
Someone's flaming bite scratches you.
You are burned by the corrosive acid on something.
Someone's acidic bite scratches you.
You dodge someone's attack.
Your elbow slash decimates someone!
Your jab injures someone.
Your jump kick decimates someone!
Someone parries your attack.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.

Dhirret: [===|===|---|---]
552/1101hp
Someone's assault maims you!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
You dodge someone's attack.
Someone's assault maims you!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
You dodge someone's attack.
Someone's assault MUTILATES you!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
You dodge someone's attack.
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
Your elbow slash misses someone.
Your back fist wounds someone.
Your spin kick mauls someone.
You strike a chakera point, stunning someone.
Your tiger claw *** OBLITERATES *** someone!
Your roundhouse kick decimates someone!

Dhirret: [===|==-|---|---]
442/1101hp
The clouds disappear.
Someone seems to come to his senses and calms down.
Someone rubs the dirt out of his eyes.
You quickly gaze through the Eye of Manticore!
You aren't blind.

Dhirret: [===|==-|---|---]
449/1101hp
Someone's fury LACERATES you!
You dodge someone's attack.
You dodge someone's attack.
Someone's assault devastates you!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
You dodge someone's attack.
Your back fist wounds someone.
Your jab injures someone.
Your jump kick mauls someone.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.

Dhirret: [===|==-|---|---]
375/1101hp
Someone's fury misses you.
You dodge someone's attack.
Someone's assault decimates you!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
Someone's fury DISMEMBERS you!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
Your elbow slash mauls someone.
Your back fist mauls someone.
Your knee thrust injures someone.
Someone parries your attack.
Your whirlwind kick mauls someone.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.

Dhirret: [===|=--|---|---]
296/1101hp

You retreat from combat!
You can't see a thing!

296/1101hp You aren't fighting anyone.

296/1101hp 
dragon
Someone rides in.
Someone flies in.
You can't see a thing!
You've decided not to yell.
Someone's fury DISMEMBERS you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Someone's assault MUTILATES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You parry someone's attack with your first hand.
Someone's fury DISMEMBERS you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Something sears your flesh with flames.
Someone's flaming bite scratches you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Something sears your flesh with flames.
Someone's flaming bite grazes you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
You are burned by the corrosive acid on something.
Someone's acidic bite scratches you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Someone's fury DISMEMBERS you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Someone's acidic bite LACERATES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You dodge someone's attack.
Someone's acidic bite LACERATES you!
You have been mortally wounded!!
You've gained some worth in eyes of [GLADIATOR]!
You have gained 50 blades in service of GLADIATOR.
A challenge has ended.
You have lost the challenge.
[GLADIATOR]: 'Dhirret has been defeated by Karga.'
Someone gasps for air as he snaps out of his insanity.
You are too hurt to do anything for a while.

Anyone got any advice besides reroll?

Anonymous poster hash: dcd2e...a78

[Tantangel]

In that specific case you were pretty screwed due to being dispelled of your stance. I'd suggest putting a color trigger on that alone if you have not already just in case. Add in being bodyslammed/bashed and it didn't really leave you much room for error. I wouldn't say reroll though for one bad instance. Can you get something to help boost your size at all being Gladiator? I know spells wont work, but I'm not sure if venom sacks work for you or not, but if not that puts you at a slight disadvantage. Versus a Berserker you may want to go defensive anyways and go with Horse to try and return his own damage to him. I know Dragon means you're more offensive and can trip, but Horse means you can avoid some of those bodyslams/bashes from larger races. It's been a while since I played a Monk at 50 that actively PK'd despite playing at least 2 for over 400 hours combined in the last year and a half. Preying mantis could help you as well with reverting some of those lagging skills so reverse those on him.

I only ever used Dragon on Warriors and varying other melee classes and it does make fighting melee's easier, but you have to take into account a Berserkers ability to dispel you. Sure that wont happen every time, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Horse works well against opponents who are more decked than you too, and since Monks can't really wear the high end items that most others can due to encumbrance, you'll wish to stay semi-defensive versus them. Offensive goes really well if you're the better dressed of the two, and every c/c so you can dispel them. Chii bolt may have even helped you if you are intent to stay offensive though, but in this situation I'd still say Horse Stance is better.

[Anonymous]

I've tried horse semi-recently vs Danpher. 

In an entire battle it returned one attack which I believe didn't even hit from memory.

I imagine vs a berserker with even more hitroll it would work even less.

Dhirret

Anonymous poster hash: dcd2e...a78

[Lloth]

27 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

I imagine vs a berserker with even more hitroll it would work even less.

Not true

[Lloth]

Your mistake there was fighting after he knocked you out of your stance, even though dragon is a poor choice against a well equipped berserker. 

Every monk that has ever beat any of my berserkers in the last 5 years was in horse stance. Horse stance is bad against thieves, but don't let that fool you into thinking it's bad against berserkers.

If you're not tripping, and in this fight you weren't, offensive stances are meaningless against melee. 

Your dirt kick ended this fight. Have to break that reflex. If you had fled, and restanced,  you may have been able to steal the initiation and been able to outpace his setup, or at the very least force another haymaker attempt. If he is throwing a haymaker while you're not lagged, he is making a very hefty gamble. Diligent, defensive mechanics will give you the upper hand.

[Tantangel]

Danpher is the exception to most rules I have found. He literally ate through -700 AC and 58/70 hit/dam. You'd be surprised at how well horse stance actually works against a Berserker. At lower levels it can prove to be deadly and at high levels it may have them re-thinking their tactics. The few times I ever used dragon stance against them I was eaten alive except for one off chance that I actually managed to disarm their weapon, but they were also not exactly well dressed. That Berserker you'll need to at least think about using Horse Stance against because you wont have an easy time going forward with it.

As @Lloth put it, that stance dispel pretty much ended you ultimately. You have to play a bit more defensive at times even if you think you can win. Usually if you're going to win it's because they don't have much armor on them anyways. Horse is what you test with. Dragon stance is once you know you can handle it or not.

[Manual Labour]

I would also recommend horse vs a berserker. I also think Barbarian is a far better choice for a monk but that's just my humble opinion.

[English lad]

While the Loss of stance screwed you - thats not unique to Monk - the Same thing would have happened to any other class that dirt kicked after having been hit with the Haymaker and losing key spells.

Never stack skills in advance - and when fighting something that can dispel - don't lag yourself for 2 rounds when they aren't also lagged.  While Horse could work in this situation, I'd say that Dragon was still your best option - you just needed to not dirt kick after losing stance.

Monks aren't in a great place right now - but Dragon Stance is the best of a bad bunch.  I'd love to see some attention paid to the other stances, especially defensive stances - as there is very rarely a situation where Dragon isn't the right option atm.

[Unknown Criminal]

When I last played I fought a few challenges Agmeel  vs Hornecka, I used both a noremove pole arm that was power gripped as well as dual wielded the best axes but his dragon stance would blast my weapon first / second round and it was all running from there.

The problem with using defensive stances is that it leaves it up to your enemy to decide if he wants to kill himself on you or not, horse stance is great BUT if the berserker doesn't rage you can't keep him in combat. 

Like even my fights against blademasters, I won every battle that they were in a defensive stance but lost 99% of the battles where they were offensive. 

Anyhow, if you don't want to fight horse is a great stance BUT if you are looking for a kill you have to go dragon. 

[Rygothran]

Off topic, but how is your bro doing, @Unknown Criminal

[Tantangel]

That's not exactly true either. You can kill a berserker in horse pretty easy where as in Dragon stance you are running the risk of having the battle turn on you instantly and then the above happens. If they don't rage, they're probably testing the waters for damage. If they rage, they know they will most likely win. Going Horse means you get to lure them into that sense of security, and if you reverse their attacks on them, you can potentially outdamage them. Add in the fact that you go preying mantis as well, that bodyslam is reversed. Trip is reversed. Kick is reversed. Bash is reversed. Sure  you need to flee and put it up again, but you're playing a game you're going to almost always survive with rare cases excluded. The other way your favor of winning is swung more towards the person you're fighting.

Agmeel was also Undead, along with having some really good wares which helped a lot. If you're not decked out as a Monk and you choose Dragon over Horse, you may as well just wave goodbye. If you go offensive and your stance falls like that, you're more screwed. If you go defensive and your stance is dropped, you still have balance to rely on for people who like to go for the lag skills. Poor dressed Monk vs well dressed Berserker I'll go Horse and live every time. I've chased off many when I have reversed their attacks. Try horse next time and see what the outcome is. If you don't have at least 45/50 hit/dam, Dragon stance is probably not the way to go.

[Fool_Hardy]

6 hours ago, Lloth said:

Your dirt kick ended this fight. Have to break that reflex.

This is the paramount lesson from this log.

You were knocked out of stance, your answer was to lag yourself for two rounds.

Which would have taken just over one round to flee and stance.

Meaning you would most likely not have entered round three with your opponent raged.

As to horse vs Dragon, I would go horse here. Dragon means you need to land the dirt kick, no use disarming if they can see to wield it again. Meaning you need more time for your stances true power to work for you. If you believe dragon will win it in the end, then use it in the End. Not the beginning. Just an old fools way of thinking.

Edit: Monk has always been one of my favorite classes, because they have alternative avenues, if you loose a couple of rounds in a row, run like hell! Drop into a different stance, buff up and try again. Chances are you will surprise most enemies. 

 

[f0xx]

9 hours ago, Anonymous said:

Anyone got any advice besides reroll?

 

Don't lag yourself after haymaker knocks key spells.

But if you were not able to come to this conclusion on your own, then I guess there are other problems too, like I am certain your itemization is MUCH worse than his and he is probably higher cabal rank, in a cabal that offers advantages against fighting goods/evils, while you are in a cabal that gimps you for being good/evil.

Basically, you will have a hard fight even if you do everything by the book and are better dressed than him.

[Magick]

9 hours ago, Anonymous said:

You have gained knowledge about beast!

Get those mastered.

 

[mya]

Try monkey. Chakeras lag. Laged mino can't haymaker.

Kiling the Pet first is always a good idea. That thing is max sized, so you be lagged for a long time.

Monks can change defencive/offensive fast.

I would sneak, blits the pet with a murder round. Flee, sneak, open again vs the pet. Once the pet is dead, sneak, open with dirt kick and see. He haymakers you flee.  If he misses one of his skill, lose the bolt and do monk stuff.

Also, try drunken stance. Horse improves your parry, drunken your dodge. Since you don't know axes, dodge might be more interesting.

It's a challenge, don't be afraid of experimenting crazy stuff.

[Unknown Criminal]

6 hours ago, Rygothran said:

Off topic, but how is your bro doing, @Unknown Criminal

He is good, still begging me to play again so he can play again though  

[Zhurong]

10 hours ago, Manual Labour said:

I would also recommend horse vs a berserker. I also think Barbarian is a far better choice for a monk but that's just my humble opinion.

In my opinion, barbarian is an awful choice for monk besides 1 thing, trample.

[Zhurong]

9 hours ago, English lad said:

While the Loss of stance screwed you - thats not unique to Monk - the Same thing would have happened to any other class that dirt kicked after having been hit with the Haymaker and losing key spells.

Never stack skills in advance - and when fighting something that can dispel - don't lag yourself for 2 rounds when they aren't also lagged.  While Horse could work in this situation, I'd say that Dragon was still your best option - you just needed to not dirt kick after losing stance.

Monks aren't in a great place right now - but Dragon Stance is the best of a bad bunch.  I'd love to see some attention paid to the other stances, especially defensive stances - as there is very rarely a situation where Dragon isn't the right option atm.

Ever had fun chasing someone down with buddha kicks? Awesome fun.

[Manual Labour]

9 minutes ago, Zhurong said:

In my opinion, barbarian is an awful choice for monk besides 1 thing, trample.

Monks benefit greatly from consumables. The hallmark gladiator skill is also not that great on a monk because of their lack of weapon variety.

I don't think Warmaster is the best cabal for monks but I think Barbarian is the superior sub cabal for more than just trample.

But this is just my opinion.

[Zhurong]

Monk trip is already a staple skill without trample. Having the auto-dirt and auto-disarm and the automatic launching of forms gives you ample time to thrash and trip or kick, thus making fights much more simpler.

[Manual Labour]

I must admit it is pure speculation on my part. I have never had a WM monk and have no clue what the beads form even does.

I still think I'd rather have access to protection, enlarge, and haste rather than Gladiator skills. Barbs also get a lot of damage potential through their unique moves too. I don't know enough about trophy to know how much a monk can benefit from that though.

Again I am not an experienced monk player. I only had 1 at 50 and it was a drow monk in syndicate that I rage deleted before I got to know the class at all well.

[Anonymous]

I can run you through the theory behind my decision if you'd like. 

Firstly, I still get protection and bless due to certain items so some of the cons are negated. Secondly, I assumed that monks did a kick when they tripped like every other gladiator which I've since found out isn't the case. 

Auto dirt will be huge, saving me lag from having to do it manually which means I can more easily time disarms etc. 

I'm not sure if the auto disarm works with dragon disarm but that was also a reason. 

Lastly, trample only works with one stance. 

Dhirret

Anonymous poster hash: dcd2e...a78

[Zhurong]

Deathblow from a monk against anyone will never break caps dmg. I do not know what the newer monk form does, but I am sure it is better. Access to consumables aside, Gladiator has had changes which make up for quite a bit.

Also, I do not think auto-disarm works with any of that anymore (i.e. dragon stance, iron arm, exotic mastery).

[Tantangel]

I'm almost 100% positive it doesn't work as I thought I read it in one of the change logs. I've never seen a Monk kick after a trip. Unless you're talking about being in drunken stance and double kick which causes you to stumble into them which I've read somewhere that it acts like a trip, but in a PK I typically never used drunken stance as Horse was usually better. Barbarian may ultimately be for more seasoned Monks. I remember fighting one as a super decked out Drow Cleric  way back when thinking I'd have trouble with him. I literally went running at him near the Savant Cabal, managed to overshoot him by a few rooms and because of that I was lagged to death because my movement commands went through during the ONLY opening I had to survive the assault. He managed to completely immobilize me and in the process beat me down quickly. Dispelled my protections with chii bolt, Air thrashed me, trip locked and trampled to death. It didn't happen just once either, he successfully did that or variation of it a few more times. And some of those were just because I failed a flee a few times when I could.

I'm more curious as to why Monks aren't neutral, and why can't you choose half-drow but you can half-elf. I'd like to see them opened up to at least 3 other races including the half-drow, but maybe it was done so in order to prevent power swing issues.

[Tantangel]

@Unknown Criminal, you could've cracked a joke like, "this game has as many people as my dick does inches. Three." And I'm sure that would still probably go over @f0xx's head.