Lich V Savant vs Monk V Warmaster

[f0xx]

3 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

I think the Lich should not have seen.

This is not a challenge, the lich is not kneeling before the warmaster, he is unconscious.

Its a fight to the death, and unconscious people can't see what is going on.

Dude, where do you pull this crap out of?

You are not unconscious, you are stunned. You can fully see what is going on.

That being said, one should not be able to wimpy flee from a guaranteed 1 round of lag from the stunning blow.

[Lloth]

So... State changes don't actually go in immediately. So incapacitated ends combat abruptly, but also triggers "death effects". As far as the game is concerned, incapacitating blow and the deathly chill happened at the same time. Now, as to why the monk didn't see it... I'm going to take a guess that the ability doesn't trigger an echoat for the lich, because it happens when they "die" (incapacitated counts..sort of). Because everything in a pulse resolves at the same time, you'd be sending that echo to a lich that wound up at his pit, barring these challenge situations. But the only way to do that would be to put the lich back in a combat state, which would either crash the game or strip the lich of ghost. 

I may be wrong about quite a bit of that, I don't know the code for it. But I have noticed a similar thing with standing/sitting/resting/sleeping states and progs. If you put a trigger on "sit" that fires a prog that tries to, for instance, make you stand back up... it won't work. Your state doesn't actually change to "sitting" until the prog finishes. 

I think the same thing is in play here. And again, there's no way (that I know of) to have a character damage another character from beyond the grave without having it resolve as an appended part of the combat pulse.

[Fool_Hardy]

20 hours ago, Anonymous said:

My perspective.

A phantasmal dragon rears its head and breaths.
Your phantom dragon MUTILATES Malkael!
The power of Dragon in your veins you bury your fingers in Malkael's torso!
Your dragon claw MASSACRES Malkael!
Malkael is mortally wounded, and will die soon, if not aided.
Malkael's deathly chill LACERATES you!
You have been KILLED!!

Anonymous poster hash: 7d986...e2a

So if he mercies the lich, where is the text that he stayed his hand? Non existent. He did not mercy as far as I can see. Death mark maybe. Unconscious like a bleeding berserker it appears to me. But I will not argue with any of you. Call it whatever you want.

[Trick]

That’s a good point..

[Lloth]

Because the deathly chill is a triggered affect. Triggered interrupts the normal flow. I tried to illustrate that with the sit/stand prog.

The combat pulse won't actually continue until the triggered affect finishes. So, to break it down...

last hit from monk would kill the lich > Challenge affect prevents the kill and stuns the lich > would normally end the combat pulse, but... 
lich ability triggers on loss > Warmaster is low enough HP to be killed.
combat pulse finishes, and lich is placed in the stunned state.

When a condition triggers a response, that response happens immediately, before anything else can be resolved. So that last hit triggers deathly chill, which kills the WM, and THEN the lich is changed to be stunned. 

[f0xx]

11 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

So if he mercies the lich, where is the text that he stayed his hand? Non existent. He did not mercy as far as I can see. Death mark maybe. Unconscious like a bleeding berserker it appears to me. But I will not argue with any of you. Call it whatever you want.

Mercy did no trigger.

First you get stunned, then another round goes, and THEN mercy happens.

[mya]

You tap into staff of control weather's mana pool and reinforce your spell.
Vogthiir yells 'diiE! Invoker, yoOou soOoRCerous dOg!'
You bow your head as you call forth the full power of the arcane.
The ground erupts as Vogthiir is caught in a searing beam of arcane light.
A bloodwolf's eye crumbles in your hellstream.
You draw your weapon.
You wield a Dagger of Shadows.
Your hellstream === DISINTEGRATES === Vogthiir!
Vogthiir is stunned, but will probably recover.
Vogthiir is in awful condition. 

Invoker: [===|=--|---|---]
<265hp 1362m 362mv> 
You shake your head and regain your footing.
You gather your wits and recollect your thoughts.
You can concentrate on spells better.
The ring of flames die at your feet.
Vogthiir steps out of his combat stance.
Vogthiir is in awful condition. 

Invoker: [===|==-|---|---]
<271hp 1383m 412mv> cast hellstream vogt

Vogthiir has retreated!
Vogthiir rides west.
  
..................... Latter.
  
Invoker: [===|===|---|---]
<370hp 1330m 410mv> cast 'HELLSTREAM'
You tap into something's mana pool and reinforce your spell. '
You bow your head as you call forth the full power of the arcane.
The ground erupts as someone is caught in a searing beam of arcane light.
Your hellstream >>> ANNIHILATES <<< someone!
Someone is mortally wounded!!
You have won your challenge.
FINISH THEM!
You have become better at hellstream!
Someone yells 'dIie! Invoker, you soRzjerous doG!'

<370hp 1316m 410mv> cast fireball
You tap into something's mana pool and reinforce your spell.     '
Someone yells 'die! Invoker, yoOou sSsOorcjeroous DOog!'
Your fireball MASSACRES someone!
Someone is DEAD!!
You receive 240 experience points.

---

Zerk: [===|---|---|---]
<238hp 187m 452mv> ber
Your pulse races as you are consumed by rage!
Warrior is in awful condition. 

Zerk: [===|---|---|---]
<338hp 137m 402mv> 
You dodge Warrior's attack.
Warrior's digestion decimates you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Warrior's poison scratches you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Your tainted slash maims Warrior!
Your tainted slash decimates Warrior!
Warrior is stunned, but will probably recover.
Your tainted slash DISMEMBERS Warrior!
Warrior is mortally wounded!!
A challenge has ended.
You have won your challenge.
FINISH THEM!
You snap out of your madness at the death of your opponent.
Your body suddenly awakens to the wounds you've sustained and you lose consciousness.
You are stunned, but will probably recover.

<-2hp 137m 402mv> 
You are incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.

<-4hp 137m 402mv> 
You are mortally wounded, and will die soon, if not aided.

<-6hp 137m 402mv> 
You are mortally wounded, and will die soon, if not aided.

<-8hp 137m 402mv> 
You are mortally wounded, and will die soon, if not aided.

<-10hp 137m 402mv> 
You have been KILLED!!

1) When you win a challenge/mercy/death mark your oponent becomes mercied and cant move. It ends the challange with a victor.

2) When you go into negative hitpoint you don't die. You become incapacitated. Combat doesn't end. Challenge doesn't end.

3) When you are incapacitated due to negative hitpoint you don't see/notice stuff.

You can confirm all these from the logs. First log shows oponent negative hitpoints not having any impact in challenge. Second one goes into more detail, detailing that you need another meele blow to win the challenge even if they are in negative hit points but above -10 HP.
You can also see, that the Zerk is poisoned but cannot even see the poison.
You can also see that the zerk only dies at -10 HP. And that the HP drops (due to poison) without message.

The monk put the lich into negative hitpoints, but the ice shield effect or what ever it's called, returned damage that was enough to kill the monk. As the Lich was bellow 0 HP he was inconscient and could not see the damage he delt to the monk.
The monk hadn't challenged the Lich, so he wasn't mercied but dead. BUT THE MONK WAS USING MERCY and lichs don't have mercy.
The lich failed his recovery roll on negative HP. No idea how that works for undead, but L50 players with high CON have a very high chance to recovering. Tested every tic.

Also, Zerk thing when rage runs out and they are like 300 HP into the negative is not the same as getting negative HP as other classes, since Zerks have a thing that covers for them due to stuff. But I think the recover mechanism is the same with them obviously having some bonus stuff...

[Anonymous]

It wasn't a challenge but I had mercy turned on. Just so we know the facts.

Dhirret

Anonymous poster hash: 7d986...e2a

[Unknown Criminal]

Offensive 'triggered' affects should be affstripped upon mortal wounding or mercy, a mortally wounded / mercied player should not be doing damage. Since mercy or mortal wounding has already fired off any damage after the fact will restart combat, this is a bug masked as (thats how its meant to work).

[mya]

It's not a bug. The Lich wasn't dead. The lich wasn't mercied. When you go into negative HP's combat continues and although you can't do anything your spells still hold.
You can still be killed by plague or steel wall or Ice/Fire shield, because he isn't dead.

It has been like this of years.

I even think such relatiatory effects should (not including plague/poison) should not be removed uppon death/mercy. But I think they are, and I understand why.

[Fool_Hardy]

43 minutes ago, mya said:

 

3) When you are incapacitated due to negative hitpoint you don't see/notice stuff.

HP < 0 =Unsconscious

I swear I have heard this somewhere before. Might have been written by a fellow named Gary Gygax around 1973?

[Magick]

7 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

I swear I have heard this somewhere before. Might have been written by a fellow named Gary Gygax around 1973?

I'm glad this is a direct port of D&D then, huh?

Guess we need to go back and revisit other mechanical things as they're obviously different than many editions of it since then.  Like sleep and fly and magic missile.  I mean, who does want to have their level 50 character fire off 11 magic missiles?

Speaking of magic users, shall we even go into spell slots for every class?

#ExactlyLikeD&D

[Anonymous]

Does that mean I can deflect arrows now?

Dhirret

Anonymous poster hash: 7d986...e2a

[Kyzarius]

Should of cast extinguish life when he was pretty hurt for a bit.  

[Anonymous]

Been waiting to use this spell for so long now. Still haven't tested it yet. 

Not even sure it's aoe or a target spell. 

Malkael

Anonymous poster hash: 74da0...210