Weapon selection

[khaede]

Long time lurker first time poster (in ages).

Is there a resource to understand the order of magnitude of impact on your defense, your opponent’s defense and your opponent’s ability to disarm you based on your weapon selection?  I know there is a chart on the wiki, but what is the combat difference between +4 and +5?  What is the base stat?  Is an incremental 1 point another 5%?  How much of a difference does wielding a weapon your opponent doesn’t know actually make?  Hard to know what you are actually better off doing if you don’t know the code.  Tough for a newbie out here!

 

[egreir]

Weapon selection is a MUST against many classes in Aabahran. Having the right weapon in the right situation, against the right class will keep you alive, will win you that PK, or make your opponent run. Below is a table of what weapons you should use against which classes as well as their defensive, offensive, disarm, to be disarmed, and shield disarm values.
 

Weapon values versus offense (vOff), defense (vDef), disarm (vDis), shield disarm (vShi), and to be disarmed (vUna), red meaning bad, and blue meaning good:

 

	vOff	vDef	vDis	vShi	vUna
Exotic	2	-2	3	4	-4
Sword	0	0	1	-3	3
Dagger	-2	0	0	-5	0
Spear	-1	2	-4	-4	2
Mace	2	-1	-3	0	-3
Axe	4	-4	-2	2	1
Flail	3	-3	2	5	-2
Whip	5	-5	5	3	-5
Polearm	1	3	-1	1	-4
Staff	-4	5	-2	-2	4

Weapons that Classes don't know:

 

	Exotic	Sword	Dagger	Spear	Mace	Axe	Flail	Whip	Polearm	Staff
Bard				x		x	x	x	x
Berserker								x
Healer		x	x	x		x			x
Thief						x	x	x	x	x
Monk					x	x	x
Druid						x	x	x	x
Ninja					x	x	x	x	x
Paladin			x	x		x	x	x
Dark-Knight										x
Warrior
Cleric		x	x	x		x			x
Necromancer		x		x	x	x	x		x
Ranger					x				x
Battlemage				x		x	x		x
Invoker		x		x		x	x	x	x
Shaman		x	x	x		x			x
Blademaster					x	x	x	x		x

[Magick]

He know's about the chart, Egreir.  Read that in his post.

 

To answer your question Khaede, I don't know.  Not without going into the code specifically.  Perhaps @Erelei could shed some light on this specific subject?

[egreir]

I just wanted to be captain obvious 

[f0xx]

Khaede

Nice to see you posting again.

Are you playing as well?

Why are you asking about weapons, monks don't need 'em

 

[English lad]

Khaede = Auzzie right? Welcome back, still have nightmares about Azun.

[Mmm Coffee]

When you could have 3 zombies of that boss mob in sea-elf cave....*drool*

[khaede]

I was playing briefly but just deleted.  I'm sure I'll continue to lurk, you guys are great.

[egreir]

Care to give your reasoning for deletion or an overall impression of the state of the game currently? @khaede

[khaede]

I had a negative experience with an Imm. It’s a hard job so I sympathize, but at the same time life is too short to play something unpleasant.  This game is a testament to the passion of those who run it though and it makes me happy to believe it will be here in 5 years for that very reason. 

[Tantangel]

One bad instance really isn't enough to really call it quits. I've had my plans foiled multiple times and characters RP diluted to the point of being bland making me want to quit. Instead of quitting though, I took a break to try other things out to see if there was something out there that fit me as a whole. Imms have to have two sides to them after all. The business side of having to deal with investigating and policing players, and the RP side that forces them to play from a completely different angle. If you end up getting reprimanded it can be done in either direction, though typically the setting you find yourself in will be the indicator of which this will be.

Get transferred usually means it's for a rule breaking reason which results in questions being asked and answered and the outcome can be just about anything. Didn't get a ban? Well you're all good at least. If they come to you, it's RP and we just roll with it however it comes. I've had interesting encounters through this method that have left me questioning a characters future, but at the same time intrigued at what an outcome can bring. If you don't fit a mold perfectly you usually don't get into any issues, but the second you step outside the boundaries of it will usually result in other actions taken against you. I've been Outcast as a Healer before for being too aggressive, but that was back in 2004/2005. Sometimes trying something new helps you get over such instances or you can choose to brood on it overall. In almost every situation I've been in involving Imms though I typically don't have any issues. Sometimes something they say pisses me off though and results in the only way I know how to calm down which is to turn away from the Forum usually.

If you need a break, take the break. Don't take one negative instance though and make it ruin your fun to play. I'd say take a few days to collect yourself and think about which of the two situations it fell under. If it was an RP reward in the form of discipline then you  shouldn't get discouraged at all. Ivesianna has had many in the last year and her road and trials are full of ups and downs that are known and unknown. That player is by far the most impressive for myself to see at least because I know most people would probably have deleted well before this point in time for her. If it's an instance of being disciplined in general though, learn from that instance and just go from there. I haven't seen any Imms really holding anything against the players down the road, and if Hotspring's meltdown is any indicator, there's plenty of room for forgiving in their eyes as well.

[khaede]

I just think alignment change/outcast for a first time offense of debatable (which is not to say without merit) severity is overkill. Absolutely within purview but it’s not going to motivate people to stick around.  

[Unknown Criminal]

Punishments are punishments, nothing about them is motivating for the player behind the character. Every time one of my chars getspunished I reach for the delete switch, it takes less time to start over than to recover from a punishment.

[Anume]

Re Khaede: according to my info your char was only talked to, there was neither an align change nor an outcast. The possibility of this happening in the future if you continued along that path was all that was brought up.

[Ulmusdorn]

4 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said:

Punishments are punishments, nothing about them is motivating for the player behind the character. Every time one of my chars getspunished I reach for the delete switch, it takes less time to start over than to recover from a punishment.

The greats deal with punishment and evolve.

Ivesianna ---> Case rested.

[Unknown Criminal]

Not everyone is that player or character, heh

[Tantangel]

@Unknown CriminalI find it easier to just keep rolling with the character. If you have less than 100 hours on a character, delete will almost always be the first thing you reach towards. If you don't have the RP established behind them, you're more likely to mess up and have a harder time trying to recover it. I had one character Outcast forever ago that I was already around 800 hours with and I made it to 1200 with them. I enjoyed the character, but a year of playing just one mainly made me want to try something else. Ivesianna I'm sure doesn't delete because of the hours invested and the RP behind them. You can delete after a punishment and lose hundreds of hours of a life you enjoyed to find yourself spinning just trying to find something else you like.

I find myself in that cycle continually after deleting a character I've had for over 200 hours and then I start training them and realize how painful it was to do it the last time around. I spend more time on training in most cases than actually playing a character if I don't spend over 200 hours on them. Punishments in most cases I have seen recover very quickly compared to that time. So deleting is usually not in my best interest. Also following the rules in general helps keep you from getting into trouble, and if your RP is breaking what you're wanting to play, chances are you will be getting slapped with punishments. It isn't too difficult to stay out of trouble despite that though. If you play and treat others how you'd like to be treated, you'll probably find that you'll be rewarded far more than punished.

I'm not saying your character shouldn't evolve overall and I know Ivesianna isn't the typical character compared to most, but sometimes longevity pays off far more than a quick turn and burn of your characters. I know you have the time to actually play to get over those punishments as you've done it before. As we age though we usually become better at decision making, and when it comes to a game I'd say that most of us do tend to make good decisions that don't push us to the point of being reprimanded for the most part. If you want to turn and burn though, I'm not going to try and stop you, but you should definitely look into trying to find something you actually love and focus on it. It's far more fulfilling doing that, and I used to play 5+ characters a month. I'm down to about two now just because I need a break from time to time from one or the other.

@khaede I can understand the discouragement of having that happen. I've been slapped around by both IG and RL decisions plenty of times to know how painful your punishments can make you reel in frustration. Due to listening and finally taking a more comprehensive approach to those situations has allowed me to learn that not only do we move on, but we also grow from them in both aspects. You shouldn't let a single instance push you away though, that's just stupid. You yourself stated it was within purview. That should tell you that if that's the direction you want your character to take, then by all means push for it. Look at UB with his Crusader gone Vampire. You could roll with the punishment and make a change you believe they'd take and see where that takes you ultimately. UB went from a possible outright denial of a character to a complete role reversal that made for some amazing RP. Loved the Crusader side, but I loathed the Vampire side of him and it was played so well that the few big named characters in recent years will be overshadowed by that single character because of the range he had. Don't get discouraged, keep pushing forward. You can't expect to know everything that will come at you as a player, and when it comes to situations with punishments, sure it sucks, but you can still change the outcome too depending on if you're willing to tough it out or not.

[Ulmusdorn]

On 5/17/2018 at 2:08 PM, Unknown Criminal said:

Not everyone is that player or character, heh

Perhaps, but I can list 10 players who I consider the Elites of this game not because they win, but because they play it like a lifetime. Life aint always swimming. You gotta take the bad with the good - that makes them exceptional.

[Unknown Criminal]

55 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

Perhaps, but I can list 10 players who I consider the Elites of this game not because they win, but because they play it like a lifetime. Life aint always swimming. You gotta take the bad with the good - that makes them exceptional.

I agree, however, out of those 10 how many of them get every qclass/qrace they ever apply for. How many of them have been approved for multiple elder and leader positions of cabals. 

Its not about just taking the good with the bad, it's about knowing you and your char will eventually achieve x goals. Normally when players take deaths they delete because of ego, not because their char sucks. A player like myself, I'm not a good writer but I can still send a note. I'm not a super role player but I can still follow a plot in order to back up super role players.

When I hit trusted in a cabal I consider myself peaked, I have nothing else to look forward to because I have no faith in the system.  Every time I've attempted to take a leading role with any char (since 1.0) I've been told I'm going OOC, breaching RP or breaking some rule and then have been penalized into deletion.

Now, someone might say well 'if you aren't the best role player then you don't deserve a Q anything, or E or L', this type of thinking stymies growth. You never know what someone can do until you actually give them the chance to grow their own characters and self confidence. Again like myself, I do not go above and beyond 'mostly' because I know my efforts will be unappreciated and fall on deaf ears, this is why I happily maintain support roles with no expectations. I do not PK as much as I can or should because I've been punished sooo many times just for killing someone, even known enemies. 

Elites aren't just elites IMO, they are regular players who know they can achieve their goals with any character because they are consistently approved for things. They also know where x equipment is as well as have x OOC connections that enable them to get x equipment at the drop of a hat which makes them strong out of the gate.

Anyhow again it's not about taking the good with the bad, it's knowing you are able to achieve things via past experiences of personal treatment. 

 

 

[Tantangel]

So I'll give you a bit of my own experience then as an example. I do not consider myself elite or really even average anymore. My last PK character that was actually decent and held their own was in 2007. Since then I have had a stream of very blah characters and some that I really enjoyed the RP of. I started thinking outside of the box though a long time ago and my imagination is vast. Lets just say that I have had to apologize to some people for their significant other severely lacking in areas of the imagination because they'd never get what they wanted out of it by remaining with that person. Aside from that though, you can toss random race/class combos at me and I can think of an RP reason why you could join pretty much any Cabal with the one restriction being it doesn't result in an Outcast to gain it (so no Gnome Thief in Nexus as an example).

Out of all my characters, in 1.0 I never got approved for anything but was denied 4 different times and only upon my fifth application I was granted acceptance into Chaos. In 2.0 I was denied on several occasions by specific players to join Savant, and this was back when HUGE OOC rings were around in many ways. I was denied on several other characters as well for other Cabals. The few that I did manage to get into before the whole promotion thing was changed to be time oriented and more IMM controlled, I managed to get into two Cabals. Rheydin (Royal) and a Warmaster. I applied for around 10 different Quest Classes and Races and managed to get one of them to become an Undead. And that was an Undead Thief who I really sucked ass playing and was stomped by Totenkopf's Crusader who could at the time see hidden characters. Since he targeted  people repeatedly though to level up his weapons, it was probably a contributing factor on making recent kills not count towards the level of both malforms and crusader weapons.

Then I decided that after talking to Messalantha for an extended time about Vampires that maybe I should try my hand at it sometime because they were interesting but I didn't know exactly what the RP should be. I as a player don't really much care for the religion of Cycle and since Vampires weren't limited to Cycle I looked at the other religions and based my own personal interests into the character making it crucial to put a piece of myself into them to make them more interesting. It was the first time that I have gotten a custom title from the very beginning because I sent out a few notes detailing the character and giving them life. By the time I finally hit 30, finished training, and sent in my app to become a Vamp I was given a quest quickly to kill someone waiting for Undead as a Cleric. I knew because of the things I mastered were only geared towards Vampires though that it would be a hard fight for me because I didn't bother training anything else except for one thing that played heavily in my favor. I really enjoyed that character and from the time of submitting my application and getting Vampire it was roughly 45 minutes. All because of RP and thinking outside of the box while at the same time implementing my own personal interests. You could always try this yourself, it could help.

Here's where I started to deviate though and it's why I don't go to things like Dischord server and I only talk to one other person who plays the game semi regularly. If it weren't for them though I'd probably only ever talk to very few people through PMs asking about PK tips and advice because my skills have severely dropped since I last was any good at it due to a few different breaks in the last 11 years that add up to roughly 50% of that time. My last Elder was in 2005 with Egui Aome my Elven Healer. Since then I had a couple of Trusted characters, though Chomba Charn was probably my most famous and since we had no Elders, myself and an Avatar Avian Ninja who I can't recall their name for the life of me was the Sigil Trusted who suggested people for induction. I never spoke to a single player of those characters either, at that point in time I was only speaking to two people regularly, and even then we often never played the same sides. Choosing to believe everyone is getting promoted or accepted for those things based on who they know though means you're choosing to completely blow off believing YOU can actually pull off the RP to gain those same things. You're screwing yourself by not growing in that way because you have this preconceived belief that you will be denied only because you do not fit into those molds yourself.

Facts: I came back in June 2016 after having not played since 2013, and then 2011 prior to that and again 2009 before even that. When I got back, I got Psi within the first few months of returning because I used what was available to me. My imagination and the fact that journals existed, as well as RP points that played into it further. I had nearly 200 before I dropped the character entirely and I only ever spent them as a Monk when I got locate object and identify prior to even realizing I wanted to see if I could do it as Soristipa and then again a year later as Legshey. Different RP perspectives, but both Monks gone Psi because I actually enjoy Monks, but the RP was more fun than the actual Psi Class to me. I was approved for a Vamp as well, and even a Demon DK which I utterly failed at before asking to be deleted. Then there was the Undead app I did get approved ultimately but asked to have sidelined so I could try for Crusader which I got after finally asking about what was going on since it was taking some time to hear back on it and I had to reapply because of it. It doesn't hurt to ask about things like that, you just have to take the initiative to do it. When I was accepted and finally passed the quest for it, I was thrilled and I spent a LOT of time trying to figure out the class. I had some people try to tell me the best path for them would be including Panek who turned out to not really know squat because his advice was completely wrong. Then I was getting bored after a few months and decided to play my old monk again to see if I'd gain favor once more. I didn't have a PK either mind you, but I was approved in the time span because there are sometimes periods of time where there is no one at 30 and everyone is playing their 50's. I started doing the quest, had a few hiccups along the way, and asked for advice where only one person was actually willing to help guide me through while another blatantly told me that they had to create several characters just to pass the quest so they wouldn't tell me to make it easier on me and this was AFTER I had already failed it. I asked the one person I talk to what they themselves had thought it would be and they said the exact same thing I had done. Shit happens though, I deleted and moved on. I deleted because I lost the RP of the character ultimately and I couldn't find an interesting view of them afterwards.

Since then though, I have played 0 quest class/race characters. I've even tried. The fact of the matter is though that it's painful how much RP goes into me wanting to play those classes/races. I would love to go for a Lich despite the fact that I know I hate the class overall after trying them out at Madness in 2016. But how bad ass would it be to play as a Human who's basically a restring Spirit seeking out their body to return to it so they can finally experience how death truly is? The belief being that the separation of spirit from the body prior to actual death is what left them in such a state to begin with and finally returning to it would give a sense of absolution so that they may pass on. Instead finding themselves trapped in a body that has been dead for some time and wishing to seek an end to such a life by either being slaughtered or by finding enough spirits to appease Anume to release their own from the coil presented to them and ultimately kept for all eternity and as punishment they don't really die, they just merely live as a tortured soul in her own personal collection for the rest of her own existence.

How about an Illithid Psi who is an actual space alien? In their own realm they were thrown to the Universe and that after several failed attempts and realms they were thrown to, each one presented an additional problem. Each place they were sent to trying to find their way home stripped them of different powers resulting in them becoming an Adventurer and finding themselves here in Aabahran. All the while trying to devise a plan to ensure they regain their strength and powers so they can continue on their path to finding home. What home may that be? Perhaps one of the moons of Aabahran? The possibilities are literally endless in this situation.

Perhaps Santa Claus is real and the myths were wrong about using Elves to help build toys. Instead he enslaves millions of Gnomes and Halflings to his own bidding resulting in their severe hatred to others and as such they have been traumatized and sometimes even believe someone else is Santa after all. This results in people dying for various reasons, but due to the hallucination not ever being 100% complete, their realization of just murdering someone crushes their worldly views making them quite distraught and remorseful. This can be played out in many ways even and can suit just about every Cabal combination they can join with the exception of maybe Herald and Merchant if they do so to kill people at least.

My point being though, is that it isn't going to be the OOC ring you seem to always state as being there that prevents specific people from being able to do what they want. It is literally your own limitations and beliefs of them that hold you back from achieving what others have and can do. You have to be willing to take a step out of that box of yours yourself though in order to achieve it. Do you truly want to play those things though, or are you using it as an excuse to point blame where it doesn't exist? How many times have you actually gone through with those things even to see if you could achieve them? I know the post is incredibly long, but I do hope you read through it entirely because I believe you have the tools available to you in order to achieve just as much, if not more than most people all without the need to try and say it's because of someone else you cannot. Watch some Sci Fi and think of a few things you believe is possible. Add a bit of yourself to your characters. Make them live, make them breathe, but more importantly, make everyone else believe that they're real as well and could easily be seen as their best friend they spent their childhood with, the ruler of a nation hell bent on destroying entire portions of civilization, or even just like their father who passed away  because a conversation they had with them while fishing as a kid related to a story you were telling them.

I don't want to hear how you sniffed the flowers in a glade in the Ford, or how you helped everyone on a step by step basis, I want to IMAGINE exactly how a memory of you happened in my own mind by giving me the free will to also add to it making it interesting to me. I don't need every detail, just the stepping stones for such. I want to feel the anger you had when someone wronged you. I want to feel the sense of pride you had when you ACTUALLY accomplished something you never thought possible. Most of all, I want to see YOU as a player grow beyond what you have managed to believe has become your corner. You can be more than that if you want to. But it is up to you whether or not you will get out of it and you can't say it's because of another player or an Imm or even OOC rings. Your brother has pulled off some amazing things in short periods of time. I wouldn't be surprised if you could do the same as long as you can change your mindset.

[Twinblades713]

Give me some of  what he’s having. You need to play out some of those RP concepts!

[Tantangel]

I have far more thought concepts on character RP than I have time in a day to pull it off. That's why I found myself continually playing 5 characters at a time because I quit my job, my schooling was  entirely online and it left me with literally 20 hours a day to play if I wanted to because I could do homework and play all at the same time and still pull off good grades. If I had to read something I'd find a YouTube video on the subject and listen to it, and about the only time I really needed to step away outside of sleeping was to write papers or take an exam.

If anything I'd enjoy seeing other people try to take those ideas and roll with them to see how they evolve though, my way of evolution is limited to what I already know and perceive, but watching someone else do something with an idea of RP brought on by myself or others is truly something of greatness. Some of my journals seem off the wall to others including Imms (which I have had comments placed when rewards had been given). The main problem for me at least is that once I've got a character down completely (adding in a taste of reality of a bit of myself and their history), I have a hard time trying to be different when playing other characters.

I'm a pretty big Fallout fan even and years ago I wanted to play out the concept of a Ghoul gone Feral eventually over time. The best way I had thought of this was by playing an irradiated Human whose health was steadily declining and ultimately resulting in going Undead (Ghoul). At that point in time I was told I should try not to go too deep into that aspect since FL is more geared towards fantasy D&D style rather than fantasy with modern realistic approaches to fantasy. I stopped playing in that aspect and kept going for a while, but ultimately ended up taking a break shortly after I deleted the character.

If you want to try and pound out a character to those already stated, I definitely encourage it. I would enjoy seeing how exactly well it could be pulled off  by someone who wants to. I'd even be willing to help with concepts of character creations if someone messaged me. My strong point has become far more RP oriented than PK in part because of my lengthy breaks and also the fact that I just don't find it as interesting anymore as I did forever ago. I could even see someone playing a Halfling who's pissed off because of how tall they are and tries to find ways of being superior to anyone taller than they are. In the case of a Good, they could go for Avatar to kill every Fire Giant just because they're sick of their bullying bullshit they suffered back in the days they attended the Academy, and since they weren't the brightest, they'd even target Drow for constant daily teasing. It can come from anywhere after all.

[Ulmusdorn]

19 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said:

I agree, however, out of those 10 how many of them get every qclass/qrace they ever apply for. How many of them have been approved for multiple elder and leader positions of cabals. 

Its not about just taking the good with the bad, it's about knowing you and your char will eventually achieve x goals. Normally when players take deaths they delete because of ego, not because their char sucks. A player like myself, I'm not a good writer but I can still send a note. I'm not a super role player but I can still follow a plot in order to back up super role players.

When I hit trusted in a cabal I consider myself peaked, I have nothing else to look forward to because I have no faith in the system.  Every time I've attempted to take a leading role with any char (since 1.0) I've been told I'm going OOC, breaching RP or breaking some rule and then have been penalized into deletion.

Now, someone might say well 'if you aren't the best role player then you don't deserve a Q anything, or E or L', this type of thinking stymies growth. You never know what someone can do until you actually give them the chance to grow their own characters and self confidence. Again like myself, I do not go above and beyond 'mostly' because I know my efforts will be unappreciated and fall on deaf ears, this is why I happily maintain support roles with no expectations. I do not PK as much as I can or should because I've been punished sooo many times just for killing someone, even known enemies. 

Elites aren't just elites IMO, they are regular players who know they can achieve their goals with any character because they are consistently approved for things. They also know where x equipment is as well as have x OOC connections that enable them to get x equipment at the drop of a hat which makes them strong out of the gate.

Anyhow again it's not about taking the good with the bad, it's knowing you are able to achieve things via past experiences of personal treatment. 

 

Ah. Does anyone else think there is a difference to breaking the rules and not being great at RP? 

I've made plenty of people who haven't been great at RP into Elder's of my cabal. I've also seen other Characters made into E or L of other cabals. 

Also I cannot think of a single Qclass/race in the past year we've rejected. I know I've approved every Psi app. Hell we've even let people fail the quests multiple times and still get another shot.

I think the attitude with which you approach things holds you back. You seem to think the world is against you and as soon as something doesn't go your way, you delete and blame the skills/foxx/cheating/eq etc. etc. When rather players who have longevity achieve more (which in my opinion is common sense). 

Personally, if I catch someone having OOC connections that are blatantly obvious - I'll crush you to the best of my ability before reporting you to Anume/Lloth who will crush you further. There is so much equipment out there.... 

[Unknown Criminal]

Ill just keep my reply because nothing good will come of it, hehe.