Iran lied.

[f0xx]

So recently Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu made a presentation, trying to persuade Mr. Trump that Iran is preparing weapons of mass destruction.

That seemed a bit of a deja-vu moment.

Either way, here is the official statement of the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency), the organization which monitors Iran's nuclear program, the one whose reports Mr. Netanyahu can be seen quoting in the video (at 5:21), a few years ago.

[Anume]

f0xx, we do not censor stuff that contains a political opinion, unless it is highly offensive to others (e.g. racist). Any post with links will be hidden until approved.

[f0xx]

Well this was posted 4 days ago and was viewed by IMMs 5 times, yet it was not approved. Had I not posted in prayer our of curiousity it wouldn't have made it most likely.

[Ali_gmud]

I glimpsed at the title of this thread and thought it read, Irant Died.

[Pali]

This thread would be better titled "Netanyahu lied about Iran", wouldn't it?  Or perhaps have the title in quotes?

[f0xx]

I am just curious to hear what the American people think about Bibi's presentation.

[Magick]

Most of us either haven't heard about it or don't care.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Collectively, as Magick said, do not care or are completely oblivious.  Summer is here and in 'Merica, that's baseball and apple pie.  Do they let you have apple pie over there, f0xx?  🤪

[Pali]

9 hours ago, f0xx said:

I am just curious to hear what the American people think about Bibi's presentation.

Sorry, we can only swallow bullshit from one president at a time, and our own keeps us well fed.

[f0xx]

Your president though, is going to use this as an excuse to pull out from the Nuclear Deal with Iran, and perhaps even use it as an excuse for "Regime Change".

[Imoutgoodbye]

Trust me, he won't call it pulling out.  The Donald never pulls out.  Ask his kids.  Or Stormy Daniels.  

[Manual Labour]

Can we really trust Iran with nukes? I dunno.

It's one of these dangerous scenarios where you kind of need to take preventative measures, at least in my opinion.

The last thing we want is a nuclear war in the middle east. At least that's the last thing I want, there may be some extremists who do want it...

[Pali]

3 hours ago, Manual Labour said:

Can we really trust Iran with nukes? I dunno.

Which is why the Iran deal existed - to at bare minimum delay Iran's acquisition of nukes and create time in which to engage the country diplomatically, which would make it easier for moderate and liberal elements of the country to gain in influence.  A lot of younger Iranians actually really like (liked?) the west in general and the USA in particular, and the deal helped empower them within Iran.

 

If the deal falls apart completely in the wake of us pulling out, however, the hard-liners in Iran have no incentive to delay their nuclear program and will likely start it up again ASAP.  As North Korea has helped make abundantly clear, the US isn't going to invade you if you have nukes, so having them is a self-protective measure for any govt. or country the US doesn't like.  You may feel you can't trust Iran with nukes, but now Iran knows it can't trust the US to even hold to treaties it signs, as does the rest of the world.  Trump is completely destroying our credibility on the international level with this move - who the hell would ever trust us to keep our word when they know the next president might break it?  Would you trust us at this point?

10 hours ago, f0xx said:

Your president though, is going to use this as an excuse to pull out from the Nuclear Deal with Iran, and perhaps even use it as an excuse for "Regime Change".

He already pulled out.  As for regime change... possibly, but doubtful.  Iran's a Russian ally, and if there's one country Trump does everything he can to avoid antagonizing, it's Russia.

 

Because they're such humanitarians and good friends of ours, of course, not because there's anything between Trump and Russia.  That's fake news.  Naturally.

[f0xx]

Well said @Pali.

The Iranian hard-liners are already chanting "death to America" after Trump pulled out.

As for trusting Iran with nukes..... Iran hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years. I trust them more than the US to be honest.

When it comes to credibility, the US told Saddam give us your weapons we won't attack you, then they attacked him. They told Gadaffi give us your weapons and we won't attack you, then they attacked him. A few years ago Putin asked your defense secretary if there is anything Syria can do to prevent getting attacked by the US, and he said "give us your chemical weapons". Assad agreed. Now he is getting attacked for using chemical weapons against "rebels" he has already defeated.

Why do you think Kim's nukes are so important to him.... he just doesn't trust the US. As any sane person should.

[Pali]

A fair point - rather than saying Trump is “completely destroying” our credibility here, perhaps the more accurate would be that he’s destroying what little credibility we have left.  At least with the others we didn’t have formalized multi-lateral treaties in place, but Trump doesn’t seem to care about such little things; TPP, Paris, Iran... what treaty will he decide to break next?  I’m guessing NAFTA, though he doesn’t care much for NATO or the UN either.

[Fool_Hardy]

Opinions vary.

[f0xx]

1 hour ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Opinions vary.

What is yours?

[Fool_Hardy]

My opinion is that those countries have been haters of the US, since we took a stand next to Israel. 1941 maybe?

They did not like Carter, Clinton, or Obama any more than Reagan, Trump or the Bush's.

To blame the current President for the environment over there, is short sighted mud slinging, in place of rational investigation.

Religion is always a touchy subject, politics too. When we mix religion and politics we have a very volatile conversation most of the time.

Politicians lie, not just the half with opposing views to your own. Look at @Valek's post. Says Trump never pulls out, but does not recognize that Clinton did and made a mess.

My opinion is that all leaders keep secrets from their people, in some cases its for the common well being of their people, in other cases its for personal gain.

That said, its important for you to realize that the American President is a puppet. He has a voice, he can be animated, he can make people "feel" a certain way.

What he can not do, is declare a regime change for another country. He can ask congress to vote on it. But he lacks the power to do so all on his own.

Now, for something I think worth watching.

 

 

 

[Pali]

14 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

My opinion is that those countries have been haters of the US, since we took a stand next to Israel. 1941 maybe?

Israel didn’t exist in 1941 - it was created in 47.  And while you are right that many in the ME resent US support for Israel, and some extremists simply hate anyone who isn’t their approved brand of Muslim, in Iran in particular it is more complicated.  The US and UK overthrew Mosaddegh in 53, who was enormously popular in Iran for having nationalized the country’s oil reserves, in favor of the Shah, who ruled over a corrupt and autocratic administration that had close ties to the US (and opened access to Iran’s oil and strategic location).  When the Shah was overthrown the US protected him, which prompted the seizure of the US embassy and 50ish hostages, which in turn helped create a permanently sour relationship when combined with what seems like unconditional support for Israel from the US.  We have a long history of messing with Iran internally that has created some very justifiable grievances against us there.

 

Despite this, Iran has long had a strong pro-western streak among the general populace, many of which supported the Shah’s overthrow with the expectation that Khomeini would function only as a figurehead of a more secular govt. rather than that he’d create the theocracy Iran ended up under.  The election of a moderate in Rouhani in 2013 was a rebuke to hardliners in Iran and was helping improve relations between it and other countries.  Many Iranians were very happy with the JCPOA and looked forward to a more moderate future with better relations with the west in general and the US in particular, and that future has just been thrown into jeopardy - and the blame for that can absolutely be laid entirely at Trump’s feet, just as overthrowing Mosaddegh can be laid at Churchill’s and Eisenhower’s or refusing to hand over the Shah can be placed at Carter’s.  Trump destroyed decades’ worth of progress with this move, and he did it in spite of every other signatory to the treaty, as well as the IAEA tasked with enforcing it and Trump’s own Secretary of State, agreeing that Iran was holding up its side of the deal.

[Gaunticles]

American here and I think pulling out of Iran deal is a mistake, all our allies disagree with us except Saudi Arabia and Israel. With the deal they reporting we had at least 10 years before we needed to worry about them building a Nuclear Weapon. Without it that could start now, and with the sanctions, it can't possibly help westernization and spread our culture and ideals since theocracy part of Iran leadership can use our backing out "not keeping our word" against moderates as a springboard.

[Pali]

It is worth noting the deal is not 100% dead yet - Iran and the other signatories are attempting to find a way to maintain it without the US, but I’m not optimistic they’ll succeed.  A lot will depend on what kind of sanctions the US now imposes, and how restrictive they will be on third parties seeking to trade with both the US and Iran.  If the sanctions are limited to, say, only direct trade between US and Iranian businesses, then it could possibly survive... but such sanctions would have no teeth and would be borderline pointless.  Far more likely is that sanctions will prevent anyone who wants to do business with the US from doing business with Iran, and that would kill the deal completely as few European or Asian businesses are going to want to lose access to the US market.

 

And Iran knows this, which is why they have already ordered preparation for “industrial-scale” nuke production.  I can’t say I blame them, especially in the wake of Israel going all out on Iranian forces in Syria pretty much the moment Trump made his announcement Tuesday.

[Imoutgoodbye]

On 5/11/2018 at 5:09 AM, Fool_Hardy said:

 

Politicians lie, not just the half with opposing views to your own. Look at @Valek's post. Says Trump never pulls out, but does not recognize that Clinton did and made a mess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're wondering why, it's not about halves.  I might participate in tribalism, but it doesn't belong to a simple binary, sir.  

[Fool_Hardy]

Best to keep an open mind, difficult in the college environment though. Many educators push a liberal agenda. Many, not all.

[Imoutgoodbye]

19 hours ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Best to keep an open mind, difficult in the college environment though. Many educators push a liberal agenda. Many, not all.

Here's the thing:  There's a difference between a professor and a teacher.  You make it sound like I live on campus.  I'm there six, seven hours a week tops.  The rest of the time I'm struggling to give the last drop of sweat and blood at work while feeling like I'm overtaxed by Uncle Sam.  Mowing my lawn.  Upkeep on my house.  What's difficult is to keep an open mind in an environment that screams conservatism when it doesn't understand the lie of the free man.  No, there's no liberal agenda.  Just the facts, sir, just the facts.  

[Pali]

Or we could keep this impersonal and on the topic of Iran...