Thyrius and the Vision of Merchant

[Tantangel]

/----------------\/----------------------------------------------\
| Thyrius        || Merchant Prince of MERCHANT                  |
\----------------/\----------------------------------------------/
| Str: 21(21)^1  || Level: 50 Sex: M      Age  : 158(1193h)      |
| Int: 19(19)    || Class: druid          Ethos: neutral         |
| Wis: 19(19)    || Race : werebeast      Align: neutral         |
| Dex: 21(21)    || Hp   : 1223/1223      Exp  : 37800/480200    |
| Con: 20(19)    || Mana :  954/954       Enemy: lich            |
\ Lck: [||||--]  \/ Move :  482/482       +Hit: 29   +Dam: 35    /
/----------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\
|     ARMOR      ||      SAVES       || Deity : Isadora          |
| Slash :  -381  || Spell      : -16 || Faith : Neutrality       |
| Pierce:  -369  || Afflictive : -15 || Weight: 392/425          |
| Blunt :  -361  || Maledictive: -5  || Items : 35/43            |
| Magic :  -484  || Mental     :  0  || Prac  : 0     Train: 0   |
|                || Breath     :  0  || RP    : 760              |
|                ||                  || Gold  : 36.6M CP: 28.7k  |
\----------------\/------------------\/--------------------------/
/ Condition: You are a bit worn out from your wounds.            \
| 7 more hours must pass before a cabal promotion.               |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/

I thought about only posting in Prayer because I didn't want to say that Thyrius is who I play. By merely stating it in a thread to have the Cabal change would already give it away, thus I am posting it here. I've gone on and spent hundreds of hours playing a character that lives and breaths but in such a subtle way it didn't ever feel like Roleplay. I'm not posting to say Goodbye or to delete. I'm posting because I feel that my vision of Merchant overall should be shared and I want to kind of hear what other players think of what my thoughts on the matter would be like. Overall it may sound like an Idea of sorts, which it is, but it's also so much more than that because being a Merchant for so long, the character developed and grew into what the very Cabal itself was in a way that wasn't greedy, but tried to help other players learn things they may not have known before. I truly want this game to keep going forward and see it grow to become Newbie friendly and reflect on what this community has become in all the years it has been running. We've had our ups and downs, sometimes we don't get along with each other, and yes, I write long posts. But I write them to try and get you to think, not just to try and throw out rubbish if it's something I feel is credible. Conversation helps us overall to learn how others think and gives you an idea as to possible angles you may have never thought of before which not just benefits the game, but also benefits you as the Players you are. Yes, this will be long, but I assure you, it's for a reason, and one I feel is very much needed to change how this game can be played if not for anything else. The reason why I don't post in Ideas thread, is mainly because I feel that the General Discussions thread will have more people reading it than anything else. So I hope it isn't transferred to that section because it's where most ideas go to die. Do not mistake this as a flame, I'm fine with the circumstances, but I also want to elaborate and discuss history in parts.

For a very long time now I've wondered what the point of Syndicate and Merchant being in the "same" Cabal really was. There's many things that separates the two entirely to such a degree that the only thing they really have in common is that they both use gold and some characters in the past played it much like a criminal organization, but there's a few things I'll point out that make 0 sense as to why it should even be with the Syndicate for what it has become today.

- I have often been told these are the first friendly faces a Newbie may meet in the game. Hence the armors they can give to be beneficial. Syndicate is not a friendly face even if it were full of Neutrals Syndicates. They're often there to kill you and not help you unless the character themselves chooses to help a person after being killed by them.

- Pacts do not affect Merchants in any capacity. At all. My CP gain has always been 1.3 hours per CP and never changed whether we had an Enemy Standard or lost the Standard. We also can't gain the Standard at all if it's taken, nor can we really participate in Cabal warfare. Oddly enough though if we get near the Knight Cabal, their Seers consider Merchants Enemies despite the fact they don't even pose a threat.

- Merchants can be Leaders of a Cabal that also involves cut throat individuals who can coup other Syndicate members for promotions, but a Syndicate cannot coup a Merchant to gain those same positions. They also have to share the numbers so as we have seen, there have been All Syndicates, and we have seen All Merchants who were the only ones in the Cabal all in the last year. This doesn't make sense to continue on this way.

- Most Merchants tend to be docile or non aggressive. Since a majority tend to be Neutral in nature, this model does not reflect that model of the Syndicate. If anything, their newbie friendliness and lack of hostility falls directly in line with the other Newbie friendly Cabal known as Herald. It hasn't been RPed as a cut throat business since I've been playing these last two years, it's always been impartial, to which I brought in a very different angle to the idea of Merchant further.

- Merchants typically aren't blood thirsty. So when I read a note stating that the bounty boards were empty and the Alliance with the Empire failed thus resulting in my demotion, I wasn't annoyed really about the demotion. I was annoyed at the fact that every point made doesn't directly affect Merchant in any way. At all. Ever. It affects the Syndicate only, thus why I don't think they should even be joined.

Thyrius is now over a year old. And was the Leader from about May up until yesterday at some point between logging off on 11/6 and logging back on on 11/7. When I first started playing the character I had only one real goal in mind, and that was to try and get both Herald and Merchant to join together. The reason for this is that they're both focused on Newbies, and with Herald allowing all walks of life to join them, and Merchants typically tend to not discriminate against who they sell to or buy from, it makes sense to combine the two together for specifically that reason. This would allow Goods to actually become Merchants and this would help the game push itself in another good direction by doing so. As time went on, I realized that the Newbie Arena was becoming severely outdated. Hence why I originally posted my thoughts and EQ tweaks to allow players to gain a Merchant like EQ, albeit weakened as it's not directly from Merchant, and give the Arena a much needed facelift.

I was happy to see after I bitched about it for so long that bounties and their prices increased. It's still not much, but it definitely went in the right direction. I am more at ease with it than I was before, but maybe in time, the prices will raise again to become on par with the true value of a characters life, and not just a tossed away price that completely disregards the well being of the characters. I would delve into it further, but I know specific players would freak out by my stating such.

What I'd like to be seen is to try and keep certain things intact that would allow a split of sorts and it is something I shared with someone last December to which they agreed that it would make sense to have Syndicate still joined with Merchants with the following:

- Split Merchant into two different factions. By this I mean to have members of Merchant who are still a part of Syndicate with a few twists.

* They would no longer be safe from a Coup. Why should Syndicate suffer from not being able to coup a Merchant if they're an Elder and the Merchant is a Leader? It's not fair as the game stands right now.

* Integrate Merchants into being able to actually participate in the warfare. They should be able to take and retrieve standards and have the same risks those of the Syndicate are forced to make each time they log in. That's the price you pay for joining the Family, thus you shouldn't be excluded from anything.

* They keep their immunity from being bountied. Why should they be stripped of it if they themselves deal with the Syndicate?

Now this next part you must keep an open mind into the matters.

* Allow Herald to also have a Merchant sect. These Merchants would be different and because they no longer would be a part of the Family, they would be allowed to be Bountied. It's only fair that they can have some kind of threat in place as well for no longer being part of the Family, and they benefit in other ways, like having Goods able to apply and join them.

* They wouldn't be able to be couped in this case because this sect would be far more Newbie friendly since both Herald and Merchant are considered as such. Since they're accepting of most people, it reflects more greatly on the purpose of both Cabals being one and the same.

* Do the same thing here as with Syndicate. Allow them to also participate in Cabal Warfare if it were to happen. They should benefit and fail equally as much as any Herald.

Both can still be newbie friendly based on whatever the character themselves are fine with, but this gives Syndicate Merchants the ability to also choose to be more underhanded and have it make RP sense to do so as they can be more corrupt. I'm not saying they can't now, but it definitely makes more sense to have it that way than to see half of an entire Cabal seem to be completely different than those of any characters who are within Syndicate. Shouldn't they both be similar to some degree and share more than just a common goal of wealth whether that's through gold or deals? That may seem narrow minded, but ultimately that's what it comes down to.

When all is said and done, I want to have made an impact that has made the game better overall and excel at what we claim to be when we say we are Newbie Friendly. We owe it to ourselves to gain new players and retain old ones alike, and over the years we have been getting better and better at this. We have more openness about the freedom of information that we didn't have even 8 years ago. We have been making strides towards it more and more. I feel that using my RP points to not just rebuild a new Newbie Arena would make one leap forward in such a sense, and if you want to read those ideas, I will gladly copy them from Prayer to add here, but I also want to do one last thing once I've met at least one other goal to which I'm close to doing so. By doing both, I feel we can add further flavor to the game, as well as make the impact to cause both sects not just a split, but a RP logical step to have the two separated and mainly stay the same. It would also breath new life into Herald. A Cabal that at times can be empty far longer than even Merchant. So I'm curious, what are your thoughts?

I will do a Shoutout type post possibly once I've finally decided to retire him, but for now I'll keep those to myself. You may find some of the things entertaining once you discover what will be said.

[aaa]

Is there any reason why merchant can't be a purely herald sub-cabal and some new interesting sub-cabal can be made for syndicate? 

[Venom]

The only thing I don't like for Merchant at all is that they are keeping all the rares/uniques. They should not be attacked, they should not attack and participate in any warfare and basically just keeping the items for them preventing the others, which participate in the warfare, to get them. Guess what happens if you have 6 merchants in the lands and all of them are decked? 

[Rygothran]

4 hours ago, Venom said:

The only thing I don't like for Merchant at all is that they are keeping all the rares/uniques. They should not be attacked, they should not attack and participate in any warfare and basically just keeping the items for them preventing the others, which participate in the warfare, to get them. Guess what happens if you have 6 merchants in the lands and all of them are decked? 

The problem here is that Merchants need armor. So do heralds. They need to go out and fight some of the baddest mobs to get items to sell to consumers. 

That being said, one thing that could be done is giving them a cabal suit that would rival having those great rares so they wouldn't have to hoard. Which I think should happen for both Merchant and Herald.

[Venom]

I was definately thinking that OR if the armors they hold to not affect the world number of unique/rare items, but this might be more complicated. 

[Archbishop Monk]

3 hours ago, Rygothran said:

The problem here is that Merchants need armor. So do heralds. They need to go out and fight some of the baddest mobs to get items to sell to consumers. 

That being said, one thing that could be done is giving them a cabal suit that would rival having those great rares so they wouldn't have to hoard. Which I think should happen for both Merchant and Herald.

The trouble I have faced with every merchant I have had is that you wear what you sell for the reason of saving rare slots in your inventory.  I've seen some merchant walking around in what I would equate close to god-suits, but understand that they need to wear them to be able to keep their sale list count high.

Another suggestion could be to have Merchant actually 'make' armor that copies the stats of rare/unique pieces.  This still leaves them able to forge a specific suit designed for their own play-style.  But, a container would have to be created in some way for them to have a sales list at all.  Otherwise, any merchant is only ever going to have 6 rares to sell on their list.

Another idea is to makes it so that Merchant offers CPS for whoever sells to them based upon the rarity of the items.  This encourages more people to bring actual items of value for sale to the merchant rather than the merchant going out and having to fight for it themselves always.

7 hours ago, Venom said:

The only thing I don't like for Merchant at all is that they are keeping all the rares/uniques. They should not be attacked, they should not attack and participate in any warfare and basically just keeping the items for them preventing the others, which participate in the warfare, to get them. Guess what happens if you have 6 merchants in the lands and all of them are decked? 

That idea works in theory only.  I can't count the number of times Eallyrl (A Herald no less) was jumped and that was BEFORE I started gearing up.  As a matter of fact, I specifically designed a suit to prevent people from just jumping me because they thought me an easy kill.   Secondly, bullying exists.  Many characters disrespect you if you are not a threat.  By disrespect, I mean my last Merchant had someone tell them if I didn't give them a discount they were just simply going to come and beat me senseless for the items for free.

You might say Merchant aren't involved in warfare, but they are involved in PK.  If you want them to not hoard rares give them a diplomacy flag that applies even outside the city and I am sure they would be more than willing not to hoard.  Besides, most merchant are willing to sell their items.  It is what they do.  You just have to meet their price or offer something.  I don't expect them to spend an hour going through Gear to sell me the monorod for what I can get in under 5 mins in the elemental canyon.

[Aeva]

7 hours ago, Venom said:

The only thing I don't like for Merchant at all is that they are keeping all the rares/uniques. They should not be attacked, they should not attack and participate in any warfare and basically just keeping the items for them preventing the others, which participate in the warfare, to get them. Guess what happens if you have 6 merchants in the lands and all of them are decked? 

 

3 hours ago, Rygothran said:

The problem here is that Merchants need armor. So do heralds. They need to go out and fight some of the baddest mobs to get items to sell to consumers. 

That being said, one thing that could be done is giving them a cabal suit that would rival having those great rares so they wouldn't have to hoard. Which I think should happen for both Merchant and Herald.

Exactly this. 

[Fool_Hardy]

Very Interesting.

+1 to upgrading Herald Cabal outfits. Start with the instruments, they are inferior to anything a top level bard can build. Make them into weapons for non bard Heralds. Add socket spaces to some existing equipment to put it on par with high end rare items.

As for Merchant being part of Herald or Syndicate again it sounds like a win/win situation.

Personally, I wonder if the Herald and Merchant cabals would not better serve the world by being more active if they were not cabals at all. I have often considered that if Merchant and Herald were instead merely vested interests of characters, titles applied for with added benefits in the way that nobles are now, that they would possibly have greater impact on the world at large.

Then we would see things like;

[Nexus] {Herald} This Guy the Herald of Pandemonium

[Knight] {Merchant} That Guy the Merciful Merchant of the Castle

[Tribunal] (Noble) {Herald} {Merchant} Some Chap the Royal Troubadour of the Imperial Emporium 

All of the above would not be restricted by PK rules or protected from PK. Meaning more of the PK oriented players would be interested in the titles and not merely the RP oriented players.

 

[Rygothran]

I don't agree with splitting merchant or herald into sub catagories of other cabals. That completely defeats one purpose of them both which is for players to learn the game in a less hostile atmosphere. That is not the only reason for their existence mind you but it is a byproduct.

Yes, Merchants and Heralds still get attacked but it is far less than a normal cabal by far.

We can't neuter these because new players need things like this to learn and survive in an environment that in no way, shape, or form lends itself to new players.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

What I see is how it must suck to lose the Syndicate standard as a Merchant member. Retrieve? Don't retrieve? Alienate customers?

[Anume]

Merchants can't retrieve or take standards, so that's not a dilemma. They are exemt from cabal wf.

[Fool_Hardy]

2 hours ago, Rygothran said:

I don't agree with splitting merchant or herald into sub catagories of other cabals. That completely defeats one purpose of them both which is for players to learn the game in a less hostile atmosphere. That is not the only reason for their existence mind you but it is a byproduct.

Yes, Merchants and Heralds still get attacked but it is far less than a normal cabal by far.

We can't neuter these because new players need things like this to learn and survive in an environment that in no way, shape, or form lends itself to new players.

In my suggestion I left out an example it appears. One would not need to be affiliated with a standing Cabal to apply for either Herald or Merchant. Herald and Merchant abilities would no longer be Standard controlled. Which means a new player could effectively still utilize one or both applicable titles to make alliances and learn the realms.

{Herald} Willy Write the Herald of Aabahran

{Merchant} Willy Profit the Sublime Salesman

{Herald} {Merchant} Justin Case the Prophet of Profits

Edit: Amendment, if a character were affiliated with a cabal, obviously the Herald or Merchant skills would become Standard dependant.

[mya]

I think that making the Merchant a non cabal is the best idea ever. Then we could have Herald Merchants who would have the PK protection for newbies. And the Syndicate/Nexus Merchants who would be the cut-throat traders without protection. Tribunal Merchants the friendly RP trade barons (Nobles) like the Trade Princess Shwarzenase.
Lock it to 1 persons per non herald cabal to prevent abuses and we have a good RP tool.

Merchant would be some sort of faction/Conclave like the Shepards stuff????
They would gain the basic Merchant powers, but only for example Heralds would have the kickass mob.

Frankly I even think Herald should change. It doesn't make sense to have Heralds since the RP points thing. You don't need Heralds to support RP as Thulgan and other great RPers have shown. Look at the Val Miran siege, and how little Heralds had an impact. The last Herald with a huge impact in the world that i recall was Dillory .
Heralds have changed a bit into a mob killing and exploration cabal lately. Perhaps they should travel longer into that path welcoming Merchants.

 

[Tantangel]

One of the things I was bouncing off the wall at one point in time was a sect of Herald that would also allow the subCabal aspect of their version of Merchant to allow them to create armors and wares that you could not find in the game and could be built with materials the game already has. It could be built off of Bard Materials and anything fancy they wished to add would require slabs of starstone to create items. Some of the items could also be considered on par with other items in the game and be made to be rare/unique so that they can't just continually be made without a limit. You'd be able to tell if you could based on the color of t similar to how you select your lores and such with a dark grey showing it cannot be created, but other combinations could.

I don't see why a Merchant couldn't just create armor for themselves in order to leave other wares for other characters. You have to remember though, I was the only Merchant for several months and I typically only played Thyrius during those times because I felt obligated to try and help other players find easier times leveling and getting EQ without feeling like they're stuck at low levels only being able to do Guild Quests to rank since there's times where no EQ is just laying on the ground to pick up. Nothing prevents a Merchant from selling his armor, but if they say no, it's typically a firm no unless you can coax out a deal with them. There was a point in time when I had really shitty EQ, and the very few things I did have people tried to bully their way into being able to get it. ESPECIALLY at the beginning. Considering how easy it is to get gold, players in general are extremely lazy when it comes to getting it. I had about 1.9 million gold at lvl 30. It wasn't hard. At 50 I can get that quickly on most combinations. Maybe one day I'll write a comprehensive guide for people.

@WadeThere's nothing really stopping that from happening, and Merchant as a whole can be an interesting Cabal in and of itself. The only real downside to them is how other people seem to treat them. Some are very stand up, others you learn who plays who based on certain mannerisms they may accidentally bring from one character to another. This was another reason why I played Thyrius because I had certain mannerisms that I was afraid I'd screw up with and use on another character. If you think of a good and interesting sub Cabal though, please feel free to post those ideas. Merchant as a SubCabal to Syndicate doesn't make sense to me due to the fact they don't participate in the Cabal in any capacity. Literally anything that affects a Syndicate does not affect Merchant in any way positive or negative.

@AevaIn my case I did so with very specific EQ for a reason. When someone wants the Orb of Fear, I don't want to sell it. For one there are two of them. The second can be broken down into a lot of other categories though which would equate roughly to 1000 words so I'll try to be succinct. It needs to be changed because it's absolutely ridiculous what it can do. It will guarantee that a close fight that would normally take place could easily be made to force it to be over far sooner than it normally would've. The use on it alone makes it more than worthwhile for any class and it boosts the effectiveness of every combination that can be played. No other +spell level mask does that. Plus if someone actually were to have offered a good deal on it, it would be something considered at least. However most players seem to think that 500,000 gold is a high price and should suffice. A Merchant can get that fairly easily through either sales or pawning if they wanted to grind for it. I've sold one for 1,000,000, but I also had a second one. If I were to come across it again that would be the sale price. Since it helps me get some EQ for people more easily, I would sell that one for at least 10 times that amount. You have to be willing to work for it if you truly want something they have. Or kill them. Nothing is preventing you from doing that either. Just don't be surprised if you have other repercussions though.

@IusedtobesomebodyAlthough they can't participate in Cabal Warfare, they can be Leaders, and without the ability to coup a Merchant, this is the drawback for anyone sitting at Elder of Syndicate. Though in most cases the Cabal Leader skill/spell tends to be pointless overall for many combinations, to log on and see the Leader next to your name is satisfying. Nothing prevents a Merchant from alienating Customers though. I have had to do so a few times because the characters gave me a reason to do it. It usually results in a loss of Merchant friendly skills that would benefit the player, so I find it entertaining.

As far as EQ to be purchased in the Cabal, it would be nice to have such items be able to rival the EQ out there. One piece actually is very nice to have, and it's actually the first thing I bought when I could afford it. We have to use both CPs AND gold though. So if I want flight scrolls, I pay more for those in the Cabal than if I were to just purchase them in Miruvhor. I try to keep both the Orbs and Scrolls though so I can use the scroll while transformed since I can't hold the orbs while transformed. Not a huge issue, but that's why I do it that way too.

I wouldn't want to see Herald or Merchant be removed as Cabals though. They're both pretty staple anymore and to remove them just to allow them to join other Cabals with extra flags makes my already crowded who list become even more crowded because we've added another flag to them. Not only that, but it would defeat the newbie friendly premise overall which is something I don't want to see. I have been trying to think of a way to cause a split to RP it out as an amicable split so my vision could be seen, but the RP plot thing doesn't elaborate on what I can/can't do and if I post in Prayer I don't get any feedback really on it even if I try to elaborate. Imms are busy and they aren't paid, so it's not a huge issue to me, but had I posted in Prayer I think this would've been glossed over which is another reason why I posted here to gain more opinion on it.

@Venom Merchants can carry 6 rares in their inventory. Often times I've been over and had to remove my non rare items and wear them in their place. You don't have to not attack them, just expect not to be able to purchase from them later if you do. I found out what worked for me around the 200 hour mark and I was harassed by several characters to sell some of them. I always tried to keep a Ring of Accuracy for sale and kept one for myself. The reason was because it balanced out my other armor well. Panek made me sell a lot of those items which really hurt how I performed in trying to get other EQ. Sometimes there's a reason they have what they do. I try to sell anything that is a non issue though because they don't help me at all. Panek on the other hand was extremely decked. At one point in time he gave me his two broken terminators in trade of my own bracelets and I hated it. Yeah, my hitroll was sitting at 60+, but it tanked my damroll in the process. I was glad when he asked to trade them back. I try to wear certain things that aren't all completely top of the line stuff because I don't want to be completely decked out and seen as hording. I only take some things to keep them for a time and often times I'll put them on the sales list, but again, people are cheap and apparently don't know how to get gold. It's very easy, and I often give discounts even. When they ask or demand one though I'll either not give them one at all, or I'll give them one, but at a slight discount and not a deep discount like I'd give them had they kept their traps shut.

[Lloth]

So what you guys are saying is...

Make it so that sales are more like contracts. There is a mob through which sales are posted that holds the items themselves, persisting through reboots and crashes. That mob remembers what Merchant puts what item, at what price, in its wares. That mob is also noncombat. Players can buy from that mob so that the Merchant does not need to be online. Shop with buy <item number> enforced in order to avoid buying the wrong one of duplicate items listed, and done as a prog so that the player can use either gold or cabal points. Make the Merchant and Herald cabal equipment much stronger than normal cabal equipment, or else give them ways of manufacturing equipment that is owner only and comparable to high-end equipment. That this would eliminate both the necessity of decked out Merchants, allow for more accessibility to merchant wares, and give the merchants more time to do stuff besides hunt sales and farm items.

Is that correct? Because most of that I could build, although Erelei would need to code some.

[Tantangel]

@Lloth That would solve almost every single issue most other players have with them including some of my own gripes that I never posted. This would be a huge step forward for that process, and the only thing left for me in making sense is the joining of Merchant and Herald into one or splitting the Merchant into two different sects as I had detailed in another post. I also want to redo the Newbie Arena to update it. It would essentially cut down on the time to level to 5 or 10 depending on if the levels to go in were wanted to be changed to give true Newbies a little longer of a chance to adjust to the game overall.

[Magick]

11 hours ago, Lloth said:

So what you guys are saying is...

Get it to pick lockboxes too, and we have a deal.

 

11 hours ago, Lloth said:

Give [the Merchant and Herald cabal] ways of manufacturing equipment that is owner only and comparable to high-end equipment.

We do have the component groundwork for this in place, at least.

[f0xx]

But....

my eyes bleed Tant.

[Tantangel]

That's why I didn't tag you in it. 😜

[Lloth]

So... is that a "yes" you guys want us to talk about trying the approach above?

[aaa]

I'd prefer that other things get looked at first instead of this issue which to be honest will only affect a very small percentage of people. 

Reworking items and lowering stat lines will affect everyone for example. 

[Fool_Hardy]

27 minutes ago, Lloth said:

So... is that a "yes" you guys want us to talk about trying the approach above?

Yes.

14 minutes ago, Wade said:

I'd prefer that other things get looked at first instead of this issue which to be honest will only affect a very small percentage of people. 

Reworking items and lowering stat lines will affect everyone for example. 

Z seems to be working on equipment. Heralds and Merchants not needing to wear said equipment to be effective will mean more suits for everyone. Affecting non Merchants and non Heralds.

[Archbishop Monk]

1 hour ago, Lloth said:

So... is that a "yes" you guys want us to talk about trying the approach above?

I would say yes to the above.  If it is done easily enough, it will mean a lot more items out there for people to play around with and mean that more data can be out there for balancing items.

[Tantangel]

16 hours ago, Lloth said:

So... is that a "yes" you guys want us to talk about trying the approach above?

I would say yes as well. It addresses the EQ issue directly that many people seem to be upset about. Merchant needs EQ to get EQ, and by having better EQ to be purchased in their Cabal to replace the Rares they already need to wear to be viable helps more than just a niche of the player base.

@Wade By going forward with it, it addresses EQ issues for shortages, and it also addresses the ability to have players who are PK focused and less RP focused more of a chance to test EQ balance against other players because those items are no longer going to be worn by those characters. So it directly addresses your issue of EQ for balance by doing it. It may actually even help speed up the process of toning things down in the process.

[aaa]

Directly addresses the issue? Come on man.. 

Look, I actually think your idea has merit but spinning it as a fix to a completely different issue is misleading. 
 

21 hours ago, Tantangel said:

By going forward with it, it addresses EQ issues for shortages

Sure, it might free up a few embers or the odd demon tongue but would it free up a darkstone carcass or orb of fear? I don't think so. Lets say it somehow does though, we've got more people running around in godsuits because of it. I don't see what that achieves? A higher barrier to entry for fresh 50's is all that comes to mind.
 

22 hours ago, Tantangel said:

it also addresses the ability to have players who are PK focused and less RP focused more of a chance to test EQ balance against other players because those items are no longer going to be worn by those characters. 

I don't really understand your point here so it's difficult to retort, those who RP less will gain new opportunities to test equipment by this change? I don't get this point sorry.
 

22 hours ago, Tantangel said:

So it directly addresses your issue of EQ for balance by doing it. 

I don't see how more available godsuits addresses the issue of inflated stats. You might have to clue me in on this one because to me I can only imagine it making the issue worse.

 

22 hours ago, Tantangel said:

It may actually even help speed up the process of toning things down in the process.

Is more data or evidence what the staff needs? Halloween madness was a missed opportunity if thats the case but I don't think thats the issue. There are things that are almost unanimously agreed upon that need tweaking but it doesn't happen and I don't think more data will change that.