Implementor Erelei Posted November 19, 2018 Implementor Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Hot Change Date: 11/18/2018 AC diminishing returns have been reworked and are much less noticeable and require a much higher AC to begin diminishing returns. The returns are also less abrasive, resulting in roughly 25% diminishing returns after reaching -450ac or above. The formula: At -450AC, this applies: --- ((AC + 450) / 2) - 450 --- Previous formula diminished AC at -300 AC and did it by 47%, for comparison. Berserker's are capped with Hitroll and Damroll again, but at slightly higher than other classes. View full hot change 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) Thank you for sharing the actual formula. I think that's the first officially posted formula of a mechanic in the 18 years of existence of the game. [edit] Btw, the formula you posted seems to contradict what you said, unless I am misunderstanding something. Once you go above 450 AC, you get exactly half of the surplus armor, Lets say I have 850 AC (total armor). The "surplus" AC above 450 is 400. We run the formula and get the result of 200. So if we have armor above 450, everything above that number will be cut exactly in half and then added to 450. So the reduction is actually 50%. Correct me if I am wrong? Edited November 19, 2018 by f0xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted November 19, 2018 Author Implementor Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 -850 + 450 = -400 -400 / 2 = -200 -200 - 450 = -650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted November 19, 2018 Implementor Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Depends if you put the % on the addition or the total value, @f0xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Anume said: Depends if you put the % on the addition or the total value, @f0xx You only apply the formula to the surplus, so it's only fair to consider that, not the total. Once above 450, every added AC is twice less affective compared to those before 450. So it's a 50% reduction of effectiveness. Now I am curious about how it was before, and I am also curious how the other "diminishing returns" formulas works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 50% reduction for added values over 450 ~25% reduction total for the example of 850 AC You guys remind me and Magick .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, mya said: 50% reduction for added values over 450 ~25% reduction total for the example of 850 AC You guys remind me and Magick .... That's not how math works though. Imagine you got 400 bucks. You put them in the bank for 1 year and next year you get 600 bucks total. How much was the interest rate for the past year? 50% or 33%? Or we can even use a simpler example. Imagine you got $400. $400 buy you 400 candies. Once you buy 400 candies though, the next $400 you spend will only get you 200 candies. Is that a 50% reduction or is it 25%? And EVEN if you go with total value, it is still not correct to say it's ~25% reduction, because that just doesn't describe correctly what the formula does, because it has nothing to do with the total value. In only works in Elereli's exacple simply because he uses those exact numbers. For example: You have -1.000.450 (1mln and 450) AC (Total AC). -1.000.450 + 450 = -1.000.000 -1.000.000/2 = -500.000 -500.000 - 450 = -500.450 -500.450 is almost 50% of 1.000.000 and not 25%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Who cares, you just lost 5 min of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted November 19, 2018 Implementor Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 million is a bad / unrealistic example however as you can't get those ac values. So yes, the addition 50% which makes it about 25% of the total of something you can acutally get. You just won a wowipop on top. 😋 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Anume said: 1 million is a bad / unrealistic example however as you can't get those ac values. So yes, the addition 50% which makes it about 25% of the total of something you can acutally get. You just won a wowipop on top. 😋 My point is simply this - saying "roughly 25% diminishing returns after reaching -450ac" is a bad way to describe what the formula does, because it is misleading. If we didn't have the actual formula, most people would take that as "you get 75 AC for every 100 AC after -450". Which is not the case. Again, thanks for the formula, Erelei. Please do not take this bickering as an excuse to say "this is not why I don't provide actual data of how things work", but more like, "this is why I should provide actaul data". Math is a universal language that doesn't need translation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted November 20, 2018 Author Implementor Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Well this actually is why past staff doesn’t provide formulas, really. Diminishing returns get more daunting as you get more and more AC. Once you hit -450AC you start at ~5% diminishing AC values of the total stat. Of course most people will be using much more than that, like in my example of 850ac. I actually used 900 as a base when creating the formula because that’s around the total average of everyone’s AC who actually work on that value. If you, god forbid, get a million AC, the return is going to slowly approach 50% reduction to the total value for sure. Starting at 450AC though gives you 0% returns, then moves slowly up: 0% => 450 => 450 5% => 500 => 475 ~9% => 550 => 500 12.5% => 600 => 525 ~15.5% => 650 => 550 ~18% => 700 => 575 20% => 750 => 600 22% => 800 => 625 ~23.5% => 850 => 650 25% => 900 => 675 So my wording was off in regards to how harsh diminishing returns get and at which point the fact remains though most characters will unlikely get more than 900ac, and the base AC value really begins to cause issues once it surpasses 750ac - so if you really do want to do that, you can but at the cost of some much better equipment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Has anyone done any testing with this new ac? My small sample size doesn't seem any different from before but maybe someone who has done more testing can chime in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Wade said: Has anyone done any testing with this new ac? My small sample size doesn't seem any different from before but maybe someone who has done more testing can chime in? Just check cabal numbers and ask around to see which characters are on top. Should be enough to get some decent data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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