I want to roll again, but haven't, and here's why

[Aidon]

So not really a newbie but been gone so long basically fit the criteria again. I really want to get back into playing the game again, but here are a few reasons I haven't. Part of me is thinking the only solution is to roll a herald and just avoid PK, but I know that's an incomplete way to experience the game. Any suggestions on ways to feel better about any of the things below? I really want to roll, but these are the things holding me back. 

1. Its very hard to be competitive as a moderate, and I don't want to spend most my time suiting. I want to spend my time fighting and roleplaying. Very few classes can get by skimping on rares and it usually relies on stacking some should-be-rare-but-aren't items with crazy stats and using swap suits. These things all take alot of time to get right. Everyone was so decked on my last character that it was nearly impossible to be competitive. Not saying that's the only reason I sucked (wasn't, I just sucked, as well), but its a contributing factor. 

2. My last 2 characters I feel like my time investment was wasted by forced beyond my control. I had an avian invoker (Rokinak). I was using mana shield to block air damage if people chose to use air weapons against me. I viewed this as a legit tactic because it meant I couldn't do damage via fire/ice and also my low mana meant they would burn it fast and I often had t flee often. However, this was decided to be not legit and a change went in over night that made my character unplayable after hundreds of hours of work. People I steamrolled now steamrolled me with burnproof easily obtained air weapons. An invoker's hp can't bear a vuln. Next char I roll (some time later) I am trying to RP a knight royal honor bound to defend Val Miran. I get royal tag, have some great RP going, and then some other RP I'm not a part of results in Knight vs Tribunal war, which means I'm basically perma-criminal and have very little time to actually RP because I spend alot of time just running from Tribunal I either am not allowed (good) or don't want (neutral) to fight. I'm basically the only Knight active in my timezone, vs like 4 nexus, 3 tribunals, all war, and I end up dying dozens of times to one character and despite my best efforts can't spin up any real RP between Tribunal and Knight because I can't catch other Knights logged in. Anume takes pity on me and gives me the newbie boost (forget the name) which helps alot but its just not fun to die over and over alone on an island. 

3. Which brings to me my next point. I was either always outnumbered, or always outnumbering someone else. Cabals seemed to stack around strong chars and create massive imbalance. If its cabal A vs B usually one side is way up on top for forever waiting to be knocked down. I would like to see something where the number of members a cabal can have is limited by the number of its enemy cabal. Same for E/L spots. 

4. There are too few players to support this many cabals which means that you are very likely to be the only person in your timezone in your cabal. 

5. I so so hate capture the flag. Seriously I hate the way standard capture has become. I remember back forever ago people used to actually fight each other, chase each other, hunt each other down. Now the key seems to be to flee-kill and try to take the standard and then catch them at a disadvantage, no open fighting. I would spend 50% of my time online playing this back and forth game, and some classes are far better at it than others. 

6. Everyone but me is a q-something elder something with god gear and every consumable imaginable. How do I compete with 5 hours a week against that?

7. I have never been rewarded for long hours of play the way it feels like others have. None of my characters had a stellar PK record, but being in a cabal at trusted 300-1500 hours with no explanation feels shitty when you have been at Trusted before other cabal's elders were even rolled and you are trying really hard. 

8. Moderate protection doesn't really help when they can take your standard and force you to re-engage, so you can't really avoid being multi-killed by the same person. 

9. I don't want to farm consumables. Full stop, and I don't want it to hurt my chances of being successful. Farming is a waste of time and poor game design that makes sense to big game companies that want to sell you a way to avoid farming or promote addiction.

10. I know if I roll, 1-9 will still be true, and I will end up pissed, but too addicted to the game I've played off and on for the last 15 years to quit. 

 

[Twinblades713]

EQ balancing is coming through and it looks great. Check out the thread for it. Hopefully this reinvigorates some combos, brings back a few more vets and makes it possible to play this game as a newbie again. I’m very optimistic about it. 

[Aidon]

5 minutes ago, Twinblades713 said:

EQ balancing is coming through and it looks great. Check out the thread for it. Hopefully this reinvigorates some combos, brings back a few more vets and makes it possible to play this game as a newbie again. I’m very optimistic about it. 

Can you point me at this thread? Search didn't find anything but probably not searching the right words.

[Twinblades713]

Stickied in general. 

 

[Manual Labour]

36 minutes ago, Aidon said:

So not really a newbie but been gone so long basically fit the criteria again. I really want to get back into playing the game again, but here are a few reasons I haven't. Part of me is thinking the only solution is to roll a herald and just avoid PK, but I know that's an incomplete way to experience the game. Any suggestions on ways to feel better about any of the things below? I really want to roll, but these are the things holding me back. 

1. Its very hard to be competitive as a moderate, and I don't want to spend most my time suiting. I want to spend my time fighting and roleplaying. Very few classes can get by skimping on rares and it usually relies on stacking some should-be-rare-but-aren't items with crazy stats and using swap suits. These things all take alot of time to get right. Everyone was so decked on my last character that it was nearly impossible to be competitive. Not saying that's the only reason I sucked (wasn't, I just sucked, as well), but its a contributing factor. 

2. My last 2 characters I feel like my time investment was wasted by forced beyond my control. I had an avian invoker (Rokinak). I was using mana shield to block air damage if people chose to use air weapons against me. I viewed this as a legit tactic because it meant I couldn't do damage via fire/ice and also my low mana meant they would burn it fast and I often had t flee often. However, this was decided to be not legit and a change went in over night that made my character unplayable after hundreds of hours of work. People I steamrolled now steamrolled me with burnproof easily obtained air weapons. An invoker's hp can't bear a vuln. Next char I roll (some time later) I am trying to RP a knight royal honor bound to defend Val Miran. I get royal tag, have some great RP going, and then some other RP I'm not a part of results in Knight vs Tribunal war, which means I'm basically perma-criminal and have very little time to actually RP because I spend alot of time just running from Tribunal I either am not allowed (good) or don't want (neutral) to fight. I'm basically the only Knight active in my timezone, vs like 4 nexus, 3 tribunals, all war, and I end up dying dozens of times to one character and despite my best efforts can't spin up any real RP between Tribunal and Knight because I can't catch other Knights logged in. Anume takes pity on me and gives me the newbie boost (forget the name) which helps alot but its just not fun to die over and over alone on an island. 

3. Which brings to me my next point. I was either always outnumbered, or always outnumbering someone else. Cabals seemed to stack around strong chars and create massive imbalance. If its cabal A vs B usually one side is way up on top for forever waiting to be knocked down. I would like to see something where the number of members a cabal can have is limited by the number of its enemy cabal. Same for E/L spots. 

4. There are too few players to support this many cabals which means that you are very likely to be the only person in your timezone in your cabal. 

5. I so so hate capture the flag. Seriously I hate the way standard capture has become. I remember back forever ago people used to actually fight each other, chase each other, hunt each other down. Now the key seems to be to flee-kill and try to take the standard and then catch them at a disadvantage, no open fighting. I would spend 50% of my time online playing this back and forth game, and some classes are far better at it than others. 

6. Everyone but me is a q-something elder something with god gear and every consumable imaginable. How do I compete with 5 hours a week against that?

7. I have never been rewarded for long hours of play the way it feels like others have. None of my characters had a stellar PK record, but being in a cabal at trusted 300-1500 hours with no explanation feels shitty when you have been at Trusted before other cabal's elders were even rolled and you are trying really hard. 

8. Moderate protection doesn't really help when they can take your standard and force you to re-engage, so you can't really avoid being multi-killed by the same person. 

9. I don't want to farm consumables. Full stop, and I don't want it to hurt my chances of being successful. Farming is a waste of time and poor game design that makes sense to big game companies that want to sell you a way to avoid farming or promote addiction.

10. I know if I roll, 1-9 will still be true, and I will end up pissed, but too addicted to the game I've played off and on for the last 15 years to quit. 

 

 1. I would stop playing moderate. Players these days are classier when it comes to looting, most only take something if they need it and odds are they won't need what you have. Especially if you get beat easily there is a very good chance they won't loot you at all (maybe your gold)

2. Negating a vuln with mana shield was deemed OP and probably is, sucks though when your current char gets nerfed, this has happened to a lot of people. Sounds like you really stick to your RP which is great for the game environment, don't take RP that doesn't go as you originally planned as bad, roll with it for better or worse, and if you die so be it. 61 lives is a lot! Nobody is meant to live forever.

3.+4. We definitely don't have the PB to support all cabals, but there is no real solution to this problem, it tends to balance out over time though because it gets boring if everyone online is allies. If you stick it out you should see things shift naturally from cabal to cabal. Also, if you find yourself alone in a cabal and put in a solid effort the promotions come fast these days. People log in from ANY timezone and could be totally alone in game, part of the problem of the dwindling PB, but every once in a while you see 10 people on!

5. Capture the flag can definitely be annoying, and it does not appear to be changing anytime soon. Luckily almost every class can very quickly reclaim their standard so keep your chin up. If your only choice is to get it back and run away until it crumbles back to your altar don't be ashamed. You would be shocked at how many TOP TIER players do this when they face an enemy that gives them even the slightest trouble. Nobody is going to force you into a situation that is going to get you killed right away. If you find yourself getting beat up out in the open and then losing your standard, as annoying as it may be, play around your own cabal. If you are halfway decent you should be able to fight more effectively at your cabal, saving your own life and protecting your standard.

6. If you can't beat em, join em. Unfortunately there are many combos that are just not viable. Try your best to think of something fun that is also strong. It doesn't have to be a q thing necessarily because there are still some very viable stock combos. You are not the only one who hates consumables and gathering them, again try and find a combo that needs the minimal amount of them.

7. These days the cabal promotions are faster than ever, all you have to do is RP and PK, win or lose if you put in the effort you WILL get rewarded. This is especially true if you are in a cabal with fewer numbers.

8. Skip moderate, like I said in 1. you don't really need it anymore, you are not going to get full looted or multi-killed for no reason anyway.

9. Have you played a Gladiator? They can't use any consumables except the ones sold in the camp. No more farming needed!

10. Play something that will bring you enjoyment, have no expectations, maybe you will be pleasantly surprised!

[aaa]

40 minutes ago, Aidon said:

1. Its very hard to be competitive as a moderate, and I don't want to spend most my time suiting. I want to spend my time fighting and roleplaying. Very few classes can get by skimping on rares and it usually relies on stacking some should-be-rare-but-aren't items with crazy stats and using swap suits. These things all take alot of time to get right. Everyone was so decked on my last character that it was nearly impossible to be competitive. Not saying that's the only reason I sucked (wasn't, I just sucked, as well), but its a contributing factor. 

Moderates aren't really competitive, thats probably a fundamental problem with what you're trying to achieve. Moderates are a low risk, low reward playstyle where as ruthless character are high risk, high reward. If you make moderates able to stand toe to toe with those that have to put everything on the line, then no one will play ruthless characters. I also agree that moderates shouldn't be punching bags either but I don't know the solution either.

44 minutes ago, Aidon said:

2. My last 2 characters I feel like my time investment was wasted by forced beyond my control. I had an avian invoker (Rokinak). I was using mana shield to block air damage if people chose to use air weapons against me. I viewed this as a legit tactic because it meant I couldn't do damage via fire/ice and also my low mana meant they would burn it fast and I often had t flee often. However, this was decided to be not legit and a change went in over night that made my character unplayable after hundreds of hours of work. People I steamrolled now steamrolled me with burnproof easily obtained air weapons. An invoker's hp can't bear a vuln.

Its important that things get balanced without the staff having to worry about players or characters feelings otherwise you get unstoppable titans who don't want to give up their characters. If the staff waited for characters to be done before balancing things then it would potentially drive away multiple players for the sake of one players happiness. I'm sorry your efforts felt wasted but it is for the greater good that those things happen.

47 minutes ago, Aidon said:

 Next char I roll (some time later) I am trying to RP a knight royal honor bound to defend Val Miran. I get royal tag, have some great RP going, and then some other RP I'm not a part of results in Knight vs Tribunal war, which means I'm basically perma-criminal and have very little time to actually RP because I spend alot of time just running from Tribunal I either am not allowed (good) or don't want (neutral) to fight. I'm basically the only Knight active in my timezone, vs like 4 nexus, 3 tribunals, all war, and I end up dying dozens of times to one character and despite my best efforts can't spin up any real RP between Tribunal and Knight because I can't catch other Knights logged in. Anume takes pity on me and gives me the newbie boost (forget the name) which helps alot but its just not fun to die over and over alone on an island. 

Can you provide your thoughts on what you would of preferred to happen? I personally like a dynamic and shifting world as opposed to a static and stagnant one, you might not of known but around the same time warmaster was at war with nexus too so it wasn't quite as overwhelming as it appears as nexus also had two enemies. 

53 minutes ago, Aidon said:

3. Which brings to me my next point. I was either always outnumbered, or always outnumbering someone else. Cabals seemed to stack around strong chars and create massive imbalance. If its cabal A vs B usually one side is way up on top for forever waiting to be knocked down. I would like to see something where the number of members a cabal can have is limited by the number of its enemy cabal. Same for E/L spots. 

I've always supported underdog bonuses as a solution to attempting to balance these things out a bit but it would be a fine balance and probably quite difficult to pull off.

55 minutes ago, Aidon said:

4. There are too few players to support this many cabals which means that you are very likely to be the only person in your timezone in your cabal. 

This is true. In my timezone I am often the only person on at all, period. 

56 minutes ago, Aidon said:

5. I so so hate capture the flag. Seriously I hate the way standard capture has become. I remember back forever ago people used to actually fight each other, chase each other, hunt each other down. Now the key seems to be to flee-kill and try to take the standard and then catch them at a disadvantage, no open fighting. I would spend 50% of my time online playing this back and forth game, and some classes are far better at it than others. 

Whats your solution to this? Maybe a king of the hill type of scenario that all cabals want to grab? That way it doesn't really matter who else is on as everyone will be trying to be king of the hill. If you dont want to participate then thats fine, you won't lose any powers or anything but won't get the rewards either.

58 minutes ago, Aidon said:

6. Everyone but me is a q-something elder something with god gear and every consumable imaginable. 

When the focus is on longevity, this is the result. 

1 hour ago, Aidon said:

How do I compete with 5 hours a week against that?

You can't really but do you really think 5 hours a week should trump 20? I'm not arguing either side but there has to be some incentive for people to play and be logged in right?

1 hour ago, Aidon said:

7. I have never been rewarded for long hours of play the way it feels like others have. None of my characters had a stellar PK record, but being in a cabal at trusted 300-1500 hours with no explanation feels shitty when you have been at Trusted before other cabal's elders were even rolled and you are trying really hard. 

I can agree with that. If you play in an obscure timezone then you can get overlooked for sure. I do think there is a gap in imm coverage that needs filling which would help with this.

1 hour ago, Aidon said:

8. Moderate protection doesn't really help when they can take your standard and force you to re-engage, so you can't really avoid being multi-killed by the same person. 

There is always the option to be uncabaled I guess, perhaps the king of the hill thing would fix this issue too?

1 hour ago, Aidon said:

9. I don't want to farm consumables. Full stop, and I don't want it to hurt my chances of being successful. Farming is a waste of time and poor game design that makes sense to big game companies that want to sell you a way to avoid farming or promote addiction.

There are options for those who don't want to use consumables, namely gladiator and some classes. I also don't like farming consumables, whats your solution to them?

1 hour ago, Aidon said:

10. I know if I roll, 1-9 will still be true, and I will end up pissed, but too addicted to the game I've played off and on for the last 15 years to quit. 

I don't know if any of us have solved this one sorry! 

[Mmm Coffee]

The hard work put into a character is not a linear curve.  Typically, early on you will be doing a lot of gear hunting, RP'ing, fighting, taking deaths, learning the class but eventually (hopefully) you settle into the driver's seat confidently and then you can slow down your game.  If it's RP you want to focus on, do that.  Have a cabal enemy on?  You should be able to fight them and, if not win, at least know what you need to do so you don't die (in most cases).

The only advice I can give you if you want to learn PK is log everything, small skirmish to hours long fight, log it all and study it.  Even fights that seem completely one-sided usually have a reason why (like you picked the wrong race at creation hah!).  I joke but that can be a grim reality as it just was for me.

[f0xx]

This sums up your whole post:

 

8 hours ago, Aidon said:

9. I don't want to farm consumables put in effort. Full stop, and I don't want it to hurt my chances of being successful.

 

There are 4 types of games I've played in my life: 1) Skill based; 2) Money based; 3) Time based and 4) Luck based. Most games will have a different degree of these 4 elements ingrained in them. There are some gems (like FL) though, where it's 90% skill. It will be hard to do well in such games without putting in some serious amount of effort.

[Djriacen]

It sounds to me like you'd do very well with an RP-based PK-optional character to learn the fast routes for gear, consumables, and match-ups. A Merchant, played for the full duration of the character's life, will teach you many things about the game (more than a Herald, I'd argue). You'll be able to take challenges to learn how to fight, collect armor to learn how to gear, and collect (and grow) consumables to learn how to gather them more quickly. Stellar RP can easily be applied for your storyline fix and your PK will be limited to your own choice, allowing you the freedom of exploration without CTF or one-sided warfare.  As with anything that requires mastery, there is no substitution for time spent. We've all spent A LOT of time here! One thing that is quite unique to these kinds of games (relative to many modern archetypes) is that there is no ELO gate so you're put up against literally the best in the world right when you get into the thick of warfare. That is an amazing opportunity when you consider it!

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Agree with Merchant over Herald.

['tarako]

Honestly you can play the less aggressive sub cabals without needing to constantly pk. If you play around not dying, pvp magically gets way easier. The eq rebalance is gonna be great for gamestate as well. The melee vulns aren't going to be as painful unless they really skimp on saves. That's also going to pretty handily shorten the gap for moderates as well. 

[Fool_Hardy]

Not everyone will be a competitor in PK. I am not saying you should not try, I am not saying you will not get better. But some of us will never be great at it. The man who taught me to weld told me, if you want to be a great welder, you first need to become a great grinder. What that means is, if you want to create something beautiful you may be required to knock all of the ugly off first, during, and after. So;

1. Knock the rust off of your game, play a PK heavy character like a WM and get your timing down. Do not worry about PK record, your just prepping the steel.

2. Inspect yourself, read all of the logs, make note of your mistakes, make note of how enemies capitalized on them; Did you get hit a lot? Did you take a lot of spell damage? Perhaps the material for the weld is wrong. Wrong material strength (AC) or wrong hardness (Saves).

3. Make your first tack (tactic) welds. Lock down the materials that were useful, lock down the things that worked out during PK. Remember those materials and mistakes so that you do not make them a permanent part of your project. Remove them from your field of vision so you are not tempted to use them in a pinch.

4. You have built a strong framework in which to continue to build. You will come across greater materials, you will come across greater tactics. You have only tacked the previous materials, you can remove them and improve. When you believe you can no longer find a greater material for a certain slot on the frame, or a greater tactic for the fight, its time to permanently weld it in place. AKA bind it to you. There are many ways to do this. RP renaming, LI, ect.

Will you ever be as great as the best? I will not lie to you. Not everyone can beat Jordan in one on one. But FL is not always about winning every fight, sometimes its about winning this fight. A very great PKer once told me, not every character in the book is the Hero. Some of us are just here for support. 

[mya]

Don't play a moderate.
If you just want to RP join Merchant. Bu I think that you would be better off learning how to PK.

You can roll an elven blademaster warmaster gladiator and learn PK. As said zero consumables.
You just need to get the chaste maiden hair for protection and bound it to yourself with cabal points. You can literally support this 100% of time.
 

Or roll a faith H-elf Paladin in Knight.

IF you weren't being rewarded with 1500 hours, it's because of you. Perhaps you were seen as avoiding PK and thus not getting PK rewards.
I have never failed to be rewarded when I bring something to the community with my chars.

[FatMike]

The consumable thing is as out of control as the item stats which are getting fixed, but that's another topic for another day. And yes, I loathe needing them all.

[Ulmusdorn]

Play something you really want to play. Dont be focus'd on PK - let it be an aspect of your life but not the sole purpose. That way if you fail with it a bit, you'll still be succeeding somewhere else.

Dont be scared of dying. Dying just happens and it happens to all of us. If you're learning you'll die more, so die more. Whatever really.

 

I for one don't bother with consumables. Maybe thats why I haven't been PK dominant in the last 4 years. Screw that effort lol.

[Lawless]

Why roll again? Just have them restore an old pfile?  Its all the rage.

[mya]

Its better to rank up, as you get the feel of the class.

Sometimes when i pick old chars im extremely rusty with them.

['tarako]

On 3/18/2019 at 10:01 PM, Lawless said:

Why roll again? Just have them restore an old pfile?  Its all the rage.

Or play four chars and rotate through them 

 

 

Seriously though, the biggest mistake I make in pk is being overzealous. Patience is key for anything. Just focus on living til the stars align. 

[Lawless]

1 minute ago, 'tarako said:

Or play four chars and rotate through them 

How could he, he doesn’t have any?

['tarako]

Honestly leveling is incredibly easy. Pinns beg for the rp points lolol