The Game, the Cabal, and You

[Manual Labour]

Who says the game is balanced around T in cabals?

This game is wildly imbalanced when you factor potential race/class/cabal combos and player knowledge and skill.

[egreir]

I wanna know who gets T in 30 hours lol 

sad thing is the people spearheading the argument for change are successful players.  Look at @Kyzarius for example. The dude has had more Ls in the last 5 years than half the pbase combined.  I’d think his opinion would be taken with more than a grain of salt. 

[Wade]

@Manual Labour it's just an assumption.

There has to be a point at which things are balanced around or how do you even try? 

You can't balance it around leader with full rp edges and you can't balance it around being a fresh 50.

There has to be a benchmark somewhere. 

['tarako]

Just a set of hard T promo goals per cabal. Barring factors like the player has been an absolute shit. It gives players a set of goals to go after, instead of it changing every character they roll. 

[Manual Labour]

Setting specific goals for T in each cabal would be turning the game into a paint by numbers.

Let every character be unique and find T in their own way and time.

[egreir]

Why? T is not and has never been some game breaking omg type achievement.  E/L are the true rewards.  Why do we make people wait weeks, months for T? Why have time requirements at all if people have to play 10x or 20x  that amount? 

[egreir]

T has what? A 5rp minimum requirement? That’s a joke. 10 hours and 5rp required....for what? To sit and play another 100 hours and gain another 100rp?  

[Ulmusdorn]

13 hours ago, egreir said:

It’s hilarious to me how far apart so many of us on how this game should operate. Gotta love it. I don’t play games to “work to earn” stuff from someone else. I play games to have fun while unlocking content that has clear cut definitions and basis for it. But hey to each their own I guess.  But there’s a reason I often login to this game and see only myself online.

Maybe this isn't for you then? Similar to why I don't like playing Massive RP games like Elderscrolls or Skyrim --> Too much random shit, I like linear play a bit more.

[Ulmusdorn]

5 hours ago, egreir said:

I wanna know who gets T in 30 hours lol 

sad thing is the people spearheading the argument for change are successful players.  Look at @Kyzarius for example. The dude has had more Ls in the last 5 years than half the pbase combined.  I’d think his opinion would be taken with more than a grain of salt. 

 

Giath?

[Ulmusdorn]

4 hours ago, 'tarako said:

Just a set of hard T promo goals per cabal. Barring factors like the player has been an absolute shit. It gives players a set of goals to go after, instead of it changing every character they roll. 

Would hate there to be any replayability at all wouldn't we.

[egreir]

8 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said:

Maybe this isn't for you then? Similar to why I don't like playing Massive RP games like Elderscrolls or Skyrim --> Too much random shit, I like linear play a bit more.

FL isn’t random? That’s kind of what we’ve been saying.  There should be some/more linear achievement for our characters.  

[egreir]

But you are right, as much as I keep trying to make a circle peg fit into a square hole, it’s time to face facts. I deleted my toons yesterday morning  no deletion posts no farewells  none of it matters my time and investment here matters to no one   And that’s a problem  only way to have an impact on a business who doesn’t value you as a consumer is to stop using their product  losing one might not do anything but this game is hemorrhaging players 

 

 

[Manual Labour]

See you next week bro 😆

[egreir]

I know, I know...but this time all I can say is don't count on it.

[FatMike]

You should fight the fight from inside not outside. Maybe approach the game a different way. It's not a $60 AAA title, it's free, never ending, always changing choose YOUR adventure. You need to make the change. 

You will never convince EA to make a game perfect for you, why should FL be different especially considering the staff size, the fact that you're actually interacting with other humans on a text level. 

Should things be changed, absolutely, like the item rework that's going on is huge. Other things, I don't know but you can just about bet our staff looks at every complaint/change thread and discusses it because they love this place just as much as you and I. 

[egreir]

Thanks Fatmike, and while I agree with parts of your statement - I respectfully disagree - I don't need to change to conform to FL.  If FL wants to grow and not be stagnant/dying, then it needs to change.  We treat this game as though it's somehow different and more special than any other game, and while there are obvious differences in genre, it's still a game at the end of the day. If I wanted to have to work hard to please some other person and earn their rewards, I'd actually work at work, not play FL at work lol

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Trust me, if the current staff is anything like the first staff, any and all complaints/issues ARE discussed. Depending on the nature and size of issue, it may be put in the top, middle or bottom of the pile. But it's THERE. You will not see many kneejerk reactions, because those often lead to more problems.

As a player, would I like to see quicker promos? Of course! As someone who once ran the game, I can understand the need for certain requirements.

[egreir]

33 minutes ago, Iusedtobesomebody said:

Trust me, if the current staff is anything like the first staff, any and all complaints/issues ARE discussed. Depending on the nature and size of issue, it may be put in the top, middle or bottom of the pile. But it's THERE. You will not see many kneejerk reactions, because those often lead to more problems.

As a player, would I like to see quicker promos? Of course! As someone who once ran the game, I can understand the need for certain requirements.

Certain requirements, of course. But currently there is no requirement other than "I am the IMM of this cabal and I will only give you T when I feel you deserve it. I may or may not make you aware of how I determine your worth."

 

What we are proposing are clear-cut requirement for just up to T....yet people act like we're asking to be coddled and bottle fed lol

[f0xx]

11 minutes ago, egreir said:

Certain requirements, of course. But currently there is no requirement other than "I am the IMM of this cabal and I will only give you T when I feel you deserve it. I may or may not make you aware of how I determine your worth."

And we are finally at the root of the problem, which is the REAL problem.

And that is, there is no standartization.

You don't want faster promos, nor do I.

What we BOTH want are clear rules on what needs to be done in order to achieve this and this.

And this doesn't just go for promos.

Everything can be standartized using a combination of activity, pk record and RP points.

['tarako]

I don't. Think it's the suggestions,  it's8 the delivery. If your suggestion isn't met with rose petal, and a parade, you get pretty snide pretty quick. I understand frustration, but I think your mannerisms do alot more bad, than good. You're suggestions have a very blackmail feel to them if an imm disagrees. Immediately making someone feel defensive will never be beneficial. It stops being a debate, and starts being a standoff.

['tarako]

Honestly I feel like the current staff is more in tune with what players want, and changing the game more than any other team before them. Erelei is more attentive tof player complaints than any head coder I ever remember

[Manual Labour]

37 minutes ago, egreir said:

But currently there is no requirement other than "I am the IMM of this cabal and I will only give you T when I feel you deserve it. I may or may not make you aware of how I determine your worth."

I would say that the former is a good enough stated requirement, and the latter is pretty bias and untrue in most cases.

15 minutes ago, f0xx said:

And that is, there is no standartization.

What we BOTH want are clear rules on what needs to be done in order to achieve this and this.

Everything can be standartized using a combination of activity, pk record and RP points.

I think having standardization across the board for all cabals and chars would be impossible.

That said I think the rules for promotion are pretty clear already, you even mention some of the factors like activity, PK, and RP.

The Imms treat each character individually which IMO is most fair overall.

If you base T only on PK its not fair to less skilled PKers, if you base it only on RP it is not fair to less skilled RPers, if you base it only on hours it is not fair to people who have less time overall (and many people can spend tens of hours in game and do nothing anyway)

The only fair way to handle promotions to T, E and L is on a case by case basis.

That being said of course some ROUGH guidelines can be put in place, and IMO they are pretty well known already.

If someone really doesn't know what to do for T, they can always ask on prayer or send a note IG.

I just don't get the issue here, I do not see a problem. I don't think cabal promotions have anything at all to do with the small PB.

[Trick]

I think it'd be the opposite to be true. A larger PBase would result in longer wait times as IMMs are dealing with more people, but that's not the point being made.

The point that a few people are making is that the time spent waiting is not as fun BECAUSE of the small PBase. We have less to do besides sit and idle. At a certain point there isn't anyone to interact with in RP or PK. You HAVE the equipment you need/want or you can't get it because you need help. Quests are knocked out. So, you basically sit and idle while doing armies, hitting score every now and again to see if 9 changed to 8 on the promotion timer.

Will changing that timer make players return? I dunno, doubtful. But it won't feel so long to sit and wait. Its just tough to wait and wait and wait with nothing to really do.

[Fool_Hardy]

@egreir, Remain calm big brother. Lets not get over excited during a discussion. I would hate for you to make a rash decision while we are only beginning to explore the nature of the issues creating disdain among some of the players.

@Trick, I think you are correct that changing those timers will not likely make players return. Getting players to return would be wonderful, but we have lost more people to RL issues than FL protocols in my opinion.

@Manual Labour, While we can not necessarily standardize the promotions, that does not mean we should not seek to troubleshoot the issues being submitted by active players.

In my opinion, there may be a solution to the issue of characters not knowing what they need to do to earn the promotion. Some believe that players controlling the cabals is the answer, history taught us that it does not end well. Some believe we need more immortal interaction, but the staff members running the cabals are real people too, With real life keeping them from being the omnipresent god figures their characters are supposed to be.

It seems that the solution may require cabals to take a page from the Heralds (love that pun, not apologizing for it, or these) and institute scheduled meetings among clansmen. The E/L and the IMM overseer could determine the time. Attending characters would get information on the current goals of the cabal, as well as feedback from their superiors and perhaps even from the overseer themselves. Just a suggestion.

But we can not ignore the other factors. Some players play many characters, while this is not a problem nor against the rules, those players have to accept that staff members know of all of the players characters and therefor may be skeptical in granting a promotion based on some very real threats. Will said player become E/L soon on his other character, i.e. is he more devoted to watcher or knight? Will said player be deleting soon? The character is almost a month  old and that's a long game for this player. <-- This is why I am a fan of the timers. Not a fan of 10 hours for every promotion mind you, I think its redundant. The time requirement should increase with each promotion.

[egreir]

@Fool_Hardy we aren't just beginning though. This is a conversation I've personally had many times in the last 10 years or so. Celerity's idea is 9 years old and I know I've been harping on basically the same issues for just as long if not longer. Almost a decade and what has changed regarding cabals? Not much, if anything.  Induction times maybe got shortened, I guess. Big whoop.  I know someone out there right now has been waiting almost 3 weeks for T, has 20x the required RP points, etc and is one of the best RP/PK players this game has and has no indication from his IMM on what he's doing wrong. Seviks was another example. These aren't just special cases, it's par for the course. I'm done giving my time to a game that does not respect the investment I give to it and instead treats me as though I should be happy to be here, when in my opinion the game should be thankful I'm the only one even playing at times and at best, I'm 1 of barely more than a handful at other times lol  call that entitlement if you want, it's just reality. My time is better spent elsewhere.