The Game, the Cabal, and You

[Trick]

1 minute ago, Lloth said:

Those other characters haven't posted on prayer about it either. Hence the bolded, capitalized "any"

I will say, and I don’t know where this stemmed from, that a lot of players don’t want to ask out of fear of seeming greedy, unappreciative, or like they’re bitching which could then result in them not receiving a promotion or viewed negatively going forward.

[egreir]

2 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

Lol I have no idea what he is even complaining about. He got promoted... 

Maybe you should teach seviks something? Or whoever else you're talking about?

I have 0 opposition to Automating T in Cabals. However if someone aint doing their duty they can be demoted to V and have to wait for a E/L to promote them.

Teach him what? I watched him die several times to Keshan/Dranthos and stay logged on. He had stellar RP.  He didn't please Lloth from some RP aspect, which I get.  But if the measuring stick is do what Giath has done...Seviks did much of the same.

['tarako]

Without trying to start a fight, I can tell you first hand my alt got stale absurdly quick because of people logging off at the first hint of a fight with me. Never seen giath act like it was anything other than a pleasure to LOSE to monsters he has no idea how to fight against. If you wanna exalt some characters, that's fine. Don't do it by belittling the hard work other people are really putting in.

[Ulmusdorn]

1 minute ago, egreir said:

That's a whole separate argument that i just don't have the energy to get into. Why do players have to go out of their way to go to a OOC channel to ask about their characters progression? Isn't that why we have cabal IMMs and RP in the first place? If someone is waiting at V for 3 weeks and has had virtually no IMM interaction, the system has failed them. And that happens all too often.

Thats your opinion. If these characters wanted to know why thy didn't get promoted... They should ask? Is someone complaining to you rather than asking us? I don't get it.

[egreir]

No one is complaining perse and I won't out people that i talk to because I understand the position they are in. They dont want to make noise and get the rep that I have and be further snubbed from rewards....but there's very high profile players in this game that feel very much like I do, they just dont want to stir the pot.  Unfortunately I am a believer of the squeaky wheel gets the grease mentality.

['tarako]

2 minutes ago, Trick said:

I will say, and I don’t know where this stemmed from, that a lot of players don’t want to ask out of fear of seeming greedy, unappreciative, or like they’re bitching which could then result in them not receiving a promotion or viewed negatively going forward.

Every time I make a prayer asking about anything I basically put a legal disclaimer about how it's not begging, pleading, or hinting, and is just so I know lol. 

[Ulmusdorn]

Anyone want to personally contact me to complain go for it. I won't pass it on and I don't have bias.

Hell I don't even have bias against nightmare and kamikaze and thats saying something.

[egreir]

2 minutes ago, 'tarako said:

Without trying to start a fight, I can tell you first hand my alt got stale absurdly quick because of people logging off at the first hint of a fight with me. Never seen giath act like it was anything other than a pleasure to LOSE to monsters he has no idea how to fight against. If you wanna exalt some characters, that's fine. Don't do it by belittling the hard work other people are really putting in.

I never tried to belittle him. I wasn't the one who brought him up.  But because he DID get brought up as an example of how to get to T, I was left to have to counter that argument, which is a lose-lose on my end.  I have nothing but respect for Giath, but that doesn't NOT mean if you do what Giath does, you can expect to get to T in roughly the same amount of time. 

[Ulmusdorn]

6 minutes ago, Trick said:

I will say, and I don’t know where this stemmed from, that a lot of players don’t want to ask out of fear of seeming greedy, unappreciative, or like they’re bitching which could then result in them not receiving a promotion or viewed negatively going forward.

Probably from Sirant ripping peoples arms off on a whim.

[egreir]

I'll say this though, if you could name the top 5 RP/PKers in this game, I can almost guarantee 2 or 3 of them feel the same way I do by first-hand conversations I have with them almost daily.   Whether they will admit that publically or not is on them, but this is not just me being some entitled crybaby, it's a real issue and sooner or later will have very real ramifications to this game if they decide to stop playing also, which they have also been contemplating.

[Wade]

There are other examples too, like asking for a tattoo is a great way to not get one. 

['tarako]

Sure it does. The entire reason lloth hadn't promoted seviks is she didn't think I was willing to betray members of nexus. She saw my character rp, and hadn't been able to read all the notes. Once anume clarified what she also knew about me in game, and specifically used the teshix seviks relationship hip as an example, lloth immediately (literally within minutes) apologized about not seeing the full picture, and I was promoted. What I've realized is imms aren't always able to keep up with every journal, note, and log, on every character. Had I been more actively engaging on prayer, I would never have had any frustration at all.

[egreir]

6 minutes ago, Wade said:

There are other examples too, like asking for a tattoo is a great way to not get one. 

I'm glad someone brought this up....so, Rygo's WM didn't ask for a tattoo you don't think? He just earned one by merit at WM V or T in probably less hours than Seviks waited to get to T? Just another example of how incredibly random/unknown the paths to certain rewards are.  I honestly have no idea about Rygo's toon or his RP nor do I really have an opinion on whether he earned it or not other than I think it's a little odd that he got it so quickly and that fact that he's an IMM.  Again I'm not saying one way or another because I wasn't active at that time and didn't interact much with the toon, but to say that doesn't make you wonder is a lie and just you (not you directly wade) being scared to speak up.

[Ulmusdorn]

4 minutes ago, Wade said:

There are other examples too, like asking for a tattoo is a great way to not get one. 

 

 

Why? Most times you'll be told why you don't deserve one.

Tattoos are the reward for the absolutely embodiment of your religion. Its something thats quite hard to achieve and therefore is quite rare. 

Wuggo has my tat, but find me another 'nature' religion that plays at this level.

 

[egreir]

Just now, 'tarako said:

Sure it does. The entire reason lloth hadn't promoted seviks is she didn't think I was willing to betray members of nexus. She saw my character rp, and hadn't been able to read all the notes. Once anume clarified what she also knew about me in game, and specifically used the teshix seviks relationship hip as an example, lloth immediately (literally within minutes) apologized about not seeing the full picture, and I was promoted. What I've realized is imms aren't always able to keep up with every journal, note, and log, on every character. Had I been more actively engaging on prayer, I would never have had any frustration at all.

So, if you had used an OOC channel, it would have all been alright in other words? And no one else think that's detrimental to the game? You basically have to have forum/discord access to be able to expect your character to be rewarded in line with their efforts?

['tarako]

See man. This is like saying "I'm not racist, but" you're saying you aren't making any judgements on an imms, and in the background you're waving the "CHEATER" flag while besting around that bush. That's my point. You may have a solid argument for player run cabals, but you deliver it with all the grace of a drunken elephant

[Lloth]

Imagine that... if you have open discussions about things, both sides can express how they see things... wow.

['tarako]

No. You need to have contact with your direct immortal leader. I deleted discord forever ago, and I'm so much happier about the game lol

[egreir]

When did I ever say I'm not making judgements on IMMs?  I'm making lots of judgements, that doesn't mean it's personal. I'm not saying Rygo cheated, I'm just saying you can't name another person who has gotten a Tat faster than someone else can get to cabal T. I can think someone has failed at their job without thinking they're a shitty person. People make mistakes, people have different viewpoints and opinions.

[egreir]

1 minute ago, Lloth said:

Imagine that... if you have open discussions about things, both sides can express how they see things... wow.

100% agree. I just think those discussions should be happening in game and that the answer shouldn't be, well why didn't you post on prayer?
 

[egreir]

2 minutes ago, 'tarako said:

No. You need to have contact with your direct immortal leader. I deleted discord forever ago, and I'm so much happier about the game lol

I left Discord quite awhile ago as well lol maybe if i can just leave the forum that'll gimme this positive outlook you seem to have

['tarako]

It should go on prayer. Expecting your imm to be available to you instantly 24 7 is about as entitled as you can be. They are trying to meet you half way, and all you wanna do is say nah, my way or I quit. How can you not see how childish that is? 

['tarako]

Imagine voluntarily donating thousands of hours of time for free, just to police a bunch of people, half of which you couldn't trust with velcro, and then them demanding that you do even more. Bottom line most imms probably killed the magic of FL to put on the big boy/girl pants and admin for us. I'm sure a little appreciation goes fuckin miles. Imagine the excitement they must have when a character with giaths attitude shows up. 

[egreir]

1 minute ago, 'tarako said:

It should go on prayer. Expecting your imm to be available to you instantly 24 7 is about as entitled as you can be. They are trying to meet you half way, and all you wanna do is say nah, my way or I quit. How can you not see how childish that is? 

I never expected any IMM to be available to me 24/7.  I never said it has to be my way or I quit.  However, if you're sending notes/journals for 100-200 hours trying to get to T and your cabal IMM doesn't know what your character's motives/intentions are yet, that's a failure of the system or of that IMM.  OOC channels should NEVER become a substitute for in game RP.  

[egreir]

Just now, 'tarako said:

Imagine voluntarily donating thousands of hours of time for free, just to police a bunch of people, half of which you couldn't trust with velcro, and then them demanding that you do even more. Bottom line most imms probably killed the magic of FL to put on the big boy/girl pants and admin for us. I'm sure a little appreciation goes fuckin

We're actually asking they do less, by automating things. Have you been paying attention? lol