The Game, the Cabal, and You

['tarako]

1 minute ago, egreir said:

I never expected any IMM to be available to me 24/7.  I never said it has to be my way or I quit.  However, if you're sending notes/journals for 100-200 hours trying to get to T and your cabal IMM doesn't know what your character's motives/intentions are yet, that's a failure of the system or of that IMM.  OOC channels should NEVER become a substitute for in game RP.  

I have worked very hard to make sure noone knows my characters motives. You could ask every character in the game about seviks rp, and not a single one would match. I was doing it so well lloth didn't know. After I got the sand out of my bitch wrinkle I was actually proud of that. Yea, posting in prayer also gives imms a chance to formulate future rp around you, and tailor it to fit. I don't understand how that's even a problem.

[egreir]

You don't understand how advocating for OOC channels to drive RP is a problem, in an RPG game?  There's notes/journals for a reason.

 

[egreir]

And when exactly did you get the sand out? Because I'm pretty sure just a few days ago you told me privately a lot of your frustration in FL is that your time input is not being equally rewarded. So either your a hypocrite just trying to play on the side of the IMMS and against someone you view as attacking them in order to try and bolster your own reputation, or someone's misunderstanding someone.  Which is it, you believe there's an issue with the time/reward ratio in this game, or it's fine and we just need to use our OOC channels more efficiently?

[FatMike]

This escalated rather quickly while I was at the game.

[egreir]

1 minute ago, FatMike said:

This escalated rather quickly while I was at the game.

FatMike has entered the fray.  It's going on 1am here, think it's time to put my tinfoil hat back in the dresser and go to sleep.

[Fool_Hardy]

33 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

Tattoos are the reward for the absolutely embodiment of your religion.

Comic relief here.

What if your religion is completely made up. Such as Grebit's belief in Lady Fate (The one true god). Should this type of character have to compete with all of the crusaders running around?

Oh come on its a funny question. 🎭

[Fool_Hardy]

redit. Double post.

[Lloth]

8 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Comic relief here.

What if your religion is completely made up. Such as Grebit's belief in Lady Fate (The one true god). Should this type of character have to compete with all of the crusaders running around?

Oh come on its a funny question. 🎭

Lloth is the one goddess. Ask Seviks, Gulacant, and Medvhaar.

[FatMike]

I don't have a horse in this race, hell I don't even know if I'd Trust me in a cabal I run. But honestly, if you've been hanging around 20-30 or more hours at T(whoever it is) and don't care enough or are too scared to ask, that's on you  

And another thing, why do you even need to have any OOC contact with anyone to ask what you need to do to get a promotion, that shit is straight IC and why can't you post a note to the Cabal and/or Imm of their choice to ask that question. Surely if you RP good enough then you can phrase the question somehow IC and not, "what do I need to do to get promoted?" If you don't get an answer in a reasonable time(whatever that may be to you)then send that to Immortal and not just one.  

I just want folks to have fun and enjoy playing the game. This just seems like it shouldn't be a problem but it's somehow gotten to that point if multiple people are complaining about it outside of the game.

I get the passion, I really do and I think it's great. My use of the word "you" is a generality, not pointing out anyone in particular. And sorry if I identified anyone with pronoun, I try to tread lightly on those nowadays. Not really. 

That was pretty rambling but it's almost 1am, my throat is on fire, my head hurts and my ears are ringing. I'm out, hopefully y'all will have more for me to catch up on in the morning. 

[Ulmusdorn]

21 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

Comic relief here.

What if your religion is completely made up. Such as Grebit's belief in Lady Fate (The one true god). Should this type of character have to compete with all of the crusaders running around?

Oh come on its a funny question. 🎭

Not my religion not my problem tbh

['tarako]

You messaged me to ask if I made an alt, and I said I'm not logging like I was because it was part of my frustration. I was dumping in alot of hours and didn't feel like I was being rewarded. After some critical thinking it became obvious that was part of the problem. I was writing so many notes and journals over such a short period it wasn't possible for imms to be clear what I was doing, and to what degree. I had notes about solo rp, attempted to start 2 small mini rp things that didn't take off, as well as being involved with deakons plot at literally every angle possible. How could I expect anything to come from the cluster fuck I was putting out.

[FatMike]

6 hours ago, 'tarako said:

You messaged me to ask if I made an alt, and I said I'm not logging like I was because it was part of my frustration. I was dumping in alot of hours and didn't feel like I was being rewarded. After some critical thinking it became obvious that was part of the problem. I was writing so many notes and journals over such a short period it wasn't possible for imms to be clear what I was doing, and to what degree. I had notes about solo rp, attempted to start 2 small mini rp things that didn't take off, as well as being involved with deakons plot at literally every angle possible. How could I expect anything to come from the cluster fuck I was putting out.

Now that my friends is called ownership. 

[Aeva]

9 hours ago, 'tarako said:

You messaged me to ask if I made an alt, and I said I'm not logging like I was because it was part of my frustration. I was dumping in alot of hours and didn't feel like I was being rewarded. After some critical thinking it became obvious that was part of the problem. I was writing so many notes and journals over such a short period it wasn't possible for imms to be clear what I was doing, and to what degree. I had notes about solo rp, attempted to start 2 small mini rp things that didn't take off, as well as being involved with deakons plot at literally every angle possible. How could I expect anything to come from the cluster fuck I was putting out.

 i have been there recently, too. this time around, last 15-16 mos or so, i have really been more interested in the rp aspect of things than ever before. with that, i have had to learn some lessons. the toughest but best one has been that setting ultra-specific expectations and plans rarely works. so i would get frustrated when stuff wasn't happening the way i wanted, dig my heels in, and double down on an angle rather than just open up and go with whatever is going on. lately i have been trying to come out of the gate with this more open-ended approach - set the foundation, wait for a little interest, and follow it with open ears. 

[FatMike]

42 minutes ago, Aeva said:

 i have been there recently, too. this time around, last 15-16 mos or so, i have really been more interested in the rp aspect of things than ever before. with that, i have had to learn some lessons. the toughest but best one has been that setting ultra-specific expectations and plans rarely works. so i would get frustrated when stuff wasn't happening the way i wanted, dig my heels in, and double down on an angle rather than just open up and go with whatever is going on. lately i have been trying to come out of the gate with this more open-ended approach - set the foundation, wait for a little interest, and follow it with open ears. 

I think you have to be fluid with the RP. Have the ideas behind the character, have some ideas of where you want to go/do but don't set them in concrete. That way you can flow into what happens around you and feed off it and make it grow and so forth/so on. Don't get so locked into what you want to do that you get tunnel vision and then get mad that your vision isn't happening. Kinda like that real life thing, your RL RP is how you interact with the world and people around you so it should be the same IG. When you get stubborn in both realms is when you tend to not enjoy yourself in either. 

At least, that's how I approach it. 

[Kyzarius]

1 hour ago, FatMike said:

I think you have to be fluid with the RP. Have the ideas behind the character, have some ideas of where you want to go/do but don't set them in concrete. That way you can flow into what happens around you and feed off it and make it grow and so forth/so on. Don't get so locked into what you want to do that you get tunnel vision and then get mad that your vision isn't happening. Kinda like that real life thing, your RL RP is how you interact with the world and people around you so it should be the same IG. When you get stubborn in both realms is when you tend to not enjoy yourself in either. 

At least, that's how I approach it. 

I usually come up with a set of principles or traits.  Simple ones.  Then use those as decision making factors in the character.  The RP goals come later.  Usually based off of what the character experiences.  Warp those experiences through the lens of principles and traits, then apply them to the world at large.  I then take the religion in the mud, and what it describes a follower is about.  And I encompass it with as literal an interpretation as I can. 

There was a gnome named vibbletick.   absent-minded, controlling, a fixer, doesn't mind cracking a few eggs, mystic.  Resulted in the mind control enslaving of the hamlet.  That event wasn't a, goal, by itself it was the result of taking the need to rule the hamlet somehow and filtering it through what Vibbletick would do based on those simple traits.  then coming up with the solution.  How would Vibbletick use his connection to the Mystic to meet the goal. 

This does result in my characters being caricatures of concepts.  Mainly since I use 2 - 3 personality traits or habits to keep it simple.  

Sepahoona didn't set out to destroy Rheydin when he first set out.  But a Random, whimsical, no care for life, or self-preservation Drow, chaos, dischord.  Made that the end goal as he developed as a character.  The 3rd arm thing was a side effect of him experimenting on himself.  again whimsical, no self-preservation.   Thulgan used Sepahoona's lack of self awareness to push him further and further towards what resulted in Maelbrim being made. 

Meliael was super complex for me.  2 personalities.  Flip a coin.  haha, poor Rygothran, I was so friendly to him on heads.  on tails i turned his gold to stone.   One personality was reserved, meak, emotionally calm almost weepy, the other was wild, bold, emotionally unstable full of anger.  The only thing they had alike was their desire to protect nature.  But not necessarily in the right ways depending on the coin flip.  So I rolled Tails so the Watcher "giant monsters "got let loose on Val Miran.  I rolled tails again, and Gabo's works were stolen to make the parasite.

So in short I agree with @FatMike, you cannot be rigorous with your RP.  It needs to live and breath.  You take a few preconceived things you thought of in character planning, a prop idea or two to use in emotes.  Then you see what results come from their actions.  Even if those actions are not at all what you would do yourself.

Hungry, starving, feeling nothing else.  No concern for others.  Bloodthirsty, literally. Death, Cycle.. With a dash of a desire to share suffering  in style with a snarky grin.  

[Kyzarius]

The catch for me in all of my above post. and this is why I HATE the promo times.  Is they are so slow, and not natural to a characters development.  I get to the point where my character is basically repeating the same last track over, and over, and over.  No IMM contact really.    My journals start to get flat in my opinion.  I get stuck.  How long can you be the wandering human afflicted with a parasite before it just gets so OLD and you want the blasted undead app approved already.  Ive dropped characters for this, good ones.  

And its not, I am waiting to say...kill someone to advance.  Super tangible.  How would my character deal with it? Sucess or failure? That I would love.  No, It is I am waiting on some arbitrary confusing development.  Sometimes I find I am writing notes but the Imm is out of town.  which is SUPER disheartening because here you are eagerly putting things together and submitting them, but nobody is even looking.  Nothing has put be down more in FL than my application "expiring" for a qclass/race.  I quit once for almost a year because this happened to me back in 2006 I think it was. 

So with nothing tangible, you just kind of dry out.  The same "place" in your characters life gets to repetitive.  And its held there by the game itself.  Now I can pretend Im more than my actual rank.  I can try to force the advancement using RP.  Works sometimes, other times I get told to paraphrase "thats just screams I want promotion".  And it is true, I want the damn promotion.  Because Im getting so bored, stuck, walking the same road over and over.  And Im ready to move on. 

 

The funny thing is I have ran 3 cabals now since we could do so as players, well 2 E's and 1 L.  So inducting and some promo's to V, and full on induction and promo to T.  And I dont understand why there is such a delay.  It isnt a hard job.  You just promo people who arent oocing and have some decent interactions with you.  Make up some random task, make it an RP goal like convincing someone something.  And when they finish cabal promo <person>.  Hell I do this without the ability to snoop, or wizinvis.  I just dont get it.  I really dont.  

 

 

[Trick]

I guess my question to the Staff is:

What's it hurt to make Trusted an auto-promotion?

 

[egreir]

39 minutes ago, Trick said:

I guess my question to the Staff is:

What's it hurt to make Trusted an auto-promotion?

 

So far, from what I've read:

1.  It makes people idle more.

   --This already happens. Not our fault there's nothing else to do but sit around and RP with yourself.

2. It rewards our sense of entitlement.

  --It's not entitlement to expect to have a clear set of instructions on how to get something.

3. It should be earned, not given. (not sure what earned means)

 --Right....

4. It contributes to the revolving door of characters.

 --Again, this already happens.

[Ulmusdorn]

What happens when we automate all the way to T (which I'm not against). Does E become the next sticking point?

[Aeva]

14 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

What happens when we automate all the way to T (which I'm not against). Does E become the next sticking point?

"i see someone that has been sitting at T for a month, what is this bullshit?"

[Aeva]

a good, albeit extreme, example of a way this could go wrong - year or so ago, i had a char at level 30 waiting on an app. tons of clan quests done. caballed at 30, still waiting on app. idling away at work, burned through all the necessary hours for M, V, AND T while still at level 30 with 12k CP. i felt really dirty about it, tbh, like it was cheap and wrong. take that however you'd like.

i guess my point here is that it wouldn't be so simple as "automate T." some other changes would probably need to happen alongside that. must be 50? pk requirements? i dont know, not suggesting that i do. just....sayin'.

[tassinvegeta]

If automated, why can't the presiding Immortal be allowed to tack on time if the player messes up, cheating, ganging etc before he becomes T?

[Kyzarius]

47 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

What happens when we automate all the way to T (which I'm not against). Does E become the next sticking point?

No, and it never has.  The cabal warfare game is based around T.  Most of the subs, exceptions being those that do earlier like Mysterum, give their final spells at T.  T is rank and file.  E is an Elder.  When I get T I feel I have hit the max level entering endgame rp and pk for my char.  Everything after rank wise is gravy.  Only on 2 chars have I intended to go all the way from the start. And i am sure you could geuss them.

I honestly wouldn't care if they were automated or not in the end if it wasnt so dammed random and inconcistent

I've played in every cabal in the last year except Herald.  This is what I experienced

Watcher promotes super fast, you like my rp style but it's not just me, you feed activity.  I've played under both you and when rygo was there.

syndi has a fixed set of goals at 3 kills, and Rygo is the most interactive cabal imm ever, seriously to the point of learning what happens with to much imm, lol.

Savant is random, but mostly super slow and confusing imm interactions are great but rare and yeah, confusing sorry temp I love you but yea. Idk what I'm supposed to do.  I dont believe anyone in savant is T atm. But its filling with a bunch of returning folks. 

Nexus is super slow and quiet.  I deleted two nexians after 3 weeks each with no imm interactions.  Though it seems to go in bursts.  I just missed the  burst.  

WM is like sit forever then randomly it seems everyone gets promoted all at once. In my time in WM with 2 chars that got trusted I was never interacted with by the imm a single time. Idk why I got T. Or why I had to wait.  And I did wait long enough I almost just canned my monk.

Knight is also very quiet. Then it's like you remind the imm you exist and get promo.  Though in knight when I was last in it was a new imm.  Probably diff now from what I understand.

Tribunal. Meh I didnt put enough effort in and ended up deleting for other reasons so cant speak on that one.  In long past they had some decent tangible goals, and Zoichan was very active.  So was the previous imm

Now thats my experiences recently now go back 2 years and its completly diff.  Savant used to be fast. Wm super slow. Watcher slow, nexus fast and knight you were lucky to get an app chance.  

The point for me is standardization.  And its NOT going to happen unless we automate it.  I want to know how long or what I have to do to get to the end game for pk/rp.  Then earn elder, earn induction and promo commands.  Keep the ranks that can manage things gatekeeper.  But man.  For rank and file? Stop with the stressful waiting periods.  It's just, pointless.  And as @egreir pointed out there is no good reason.

[Rygothran]

🤔

[Imoutgoodbye]

Man, this is horrible to read through.  

Ya'll got some issues.