I lied.

[Seravin]

I stuck around and rolled up Ortesh. Gone now though. Real life been getting in the way, and not really feeling it lately. I’m for real gone this time, since my play time is drastically reduced. It was fun, and battlemages still kinda suck. Thanks for the bits of interaction I had with you guys. 

[Cephirus]

1 hour ago, Seravin said:

I stuck around and rolled up Ortesh. Gone now though. Real life been getting in the way, and not really feeling it lately. I’m for real gone this time, since my play time is drastically reduced. It was fun, and battlemages still kinda suck. Thanks for the bits of interaction I had with you guys. 

Stop playing with my emotions! Leave, not leave... :(

 

Honestly, I think you had something going with Ortesh. We fought a few times, each of us with a victory. There are a few suggestions I would make that I think would have definitely helped you in our fights. If you happen to have the fights logged, feel free to post them either in the PK section or on prayer and I am sure someone can offer some tips for the future.

[sarcon]

Battlemages can be absolutely OP. I loved playing Battlemages, the only issue is I don't see any other cabal to join but Savants. The spell upkeep is crazy. Reverse time is a must. Druids have a pretty bad spell upkeep but I feel Battlemages are worse. 

[Kyzarius]

You know.  I went on the prayer forum and told them "I am rolling a battlemage to prove they need help"  I rolled one.  I made some points as I geared.  I gained the gear, learned the ins and outs of the class.  Especially the class specific items, and proficiency.   Got into Savant, and then reported on prayer that battlemages are completely fine and went onto have a stellar pk record with one.   And they are.  the class has its challenges like any other.  But in the end they are a superb mage.  A little more gear dependent than an invoker, or necro.  But when at their peak are quite powerful and can easily get kills on many classes. 

[Trick]

Who was your BMG?

EDIT: @Kyzarius

[Rensvert]

is a class really fine if they require amazing gear and a specific cabal though? That sounds not quite reasonable to me.

 

He also gives the name in the post @Trick  apologies trick, confused me there you did.

[Trick]

2 minutes ago, Rensvert said:

is a class really fine if they require amazing gear and a specific cabal though? That sounds not quite reasonable to me.

I know of a few that went Reaver and saw some success as well. 

[Kyzarius]

6 minutes ago, Trick said:

Who was your BMG?

EDIT: @Kyzarius

Ashandra. 

[Rensvert]

so 1.5 cabals makes this better? It also does not make up for the fact that they require amazing gear to be good.

[Kyzarius]

5 minutes ago, Rensvert said:

is a class really fine if they require amazing gear and a specific cabal though? That sounds not quite reasonable to me.

 

He also gives the name in the post @Trick  apologies trick, confused me there you did.

Not amazing gear.  Just knowing the right gear.  only one piece comes from an area you cant solo as a BMG actually, and its a socket. 

I went in having never played one before too, keep that in mind.  

[Rensvert]

So the class works if you go one of 2 cabals and are able to acquire the correct gear and of course supposing you know of the correct gear and the areas that it comes from.

Just because the class works for a great player does not mean that the class does not need tweaks. Unless of course we are balancing now around the top few players in the game.

[Kyzarius]

the class Dominates if you get in the  right cabal, and learn all the right gear.  not just works.  It works just fine right out of the box.  Just like any other class.   You seem to have a preconceived idea as to what you expect and are trying to shoe horn my feedback into that idea. 

 

and not amazing gear, just normal mage stuff Plus some of the class specific things that raise proficiency.  

[Rensvert]

I do believe you said "at their peak" which to me ya know means at their best. If of course you did not mean that I am sorry for taking your words at their meaning, but I do not think that is my preconceived idea at all, that is poor grammar on your part. 

Now that you change that though in your latest post, to be just normal gear plus a few class specific things we can of course have a more normal conversation. But do not blame me for attempting to manipulate what you said, when in fact you just misspoke.

[Imoutgoodbye]

3 minutes ago, Rensvert said:

I do believe you said "at their peak" which to me ya know means at their best. If of course you did not mean that I am sorry for taking your words at their meaning, but I do not think that is my preconceived idea at all, that is poor grammar on your part. 

Now that you change that though in your latest post, to be just normal gear plus a few class specific things we can of course have a more normal conversation. But do not blame me for attempting to manipulate what you said, when in fact you just misspoke.

*Facepalm*

Overaggressive today, are we?

[Rensvert]

just tired of people changing their story and not taking anyone's complaints even remotely seriously. Instead it seems most people here have an "it worked fine for me so its fine" attitude. That is not how the game grows or improves IMO.

 

Also yeah havent had coffee yet and was awake way too long doing homework. so maybe a bit on the aggressive side

[Cephirus]

The truth is that not everyone is good at every class. Battlemages take finesse, similar to Blademasters. Just spamming damage spells, etc. is not enough to win a fight against strong opponents. It's about battle tactics, facing an invoker that is kicking your teeth in with call lightning, lower your ac or try and fight indoors. Minions getting you down, focus your attention on them and pick off the weak but high damage ones.

[Seravin]

The character was admittedly short lived. But I was outdamaged by everyone I fought unless there was a major discrepancy. No sanc, etc. could you explain what gear you’re talking about, or what ins and outs you learned? It’s nice to hear they aren’t as bad as I think they are, but I would like to know how they can do well. 

I feel like of all the classes, battlemage is the most common one to hear needs a boost. 

[Twinblades713]

Also if you change a class to suit people who are not very good with the class and don’t use advanced tactics, then it will inevitably be played by someone who does use those strategies and will become OP. You can’t buff the floor strength without also buffing the ceiling strength of a class. Not very easily anyway. I’m awful with zerks but if you buff them so that I’m good on the class, imagine how fast Nekky or Tassin would dismantle the pbase with it?

[Kyzarius]

I wasn't saying they are powerful at their peak to the exclusion of all other points in their development.  I would not actually recommend them to a newer player as they have a tricky burst mechanic, and their ability to contain someone relies on you being fast, and having good timing in battle.  Similar to berserkers in that regard.  However as mages go they have a lot going for them.  And trivialize other parts of the game like gathering eq where some classes struggle and require more innate knowledge of the mud. 

Having played and pk'ed with every single class in the game though, my opinion stands.  I went into the class expecting them to need help, I tested the class and gave it the same treatment i do any other CC,  and was pleasantly surprised at how well they perform. 

[Djriacen]

There is not a class in the game that does not benefit from some experienced knowledge of synergy, be it with cabal choice or items. Kyzarius is merely pointing out that after having spent time with the BMG on a more intimate level, he was able to find that niche. BMGs are more dependent on items, they're battlemages. Many melee classes are no different.

[Seravin]

Could we elaborate on these points? Fully spelled up, 550 or better ac, I still struggled against a lot of higher end mobs in the game. Their damage is mediocre, and requires enemies not blocking attacks in some capacity. Sharp metal is a fairly weak spell against most everything, although it is consistent. Sear and meteor swarm have conditional requirements. 

I would honestly like to know what I’m missing with them. It sounds like other people know what they’re doing, and I would really like that input. Telling us all they can do well with X and Y, but not saying what those are isn’t particularly useful. 

And I want it to be clear that I was stating an opinion. I don’t think they’re very good, but I obviously don’t have the same insight as others. 

[sarcon]

A battlemage can easily get AC 600+, that's what makes them so great. When you throw up all the shields and get your armor at a decent level, you're good to go. That's why they can be so nasty, you can sit in combat for a ridiculous amount of time. Once you land you're debuffs and get some good tactics going, it's usually easy pickings. With that being said, there are pieces of armament that can really take them to the next level, but overall, you don't need those items to kick some serious butt. The only time I found issues with a Battlemage was fighting a decked melee on water for obvious reasons. However, as many have mentioned already above, this class is definitely not something I would have tried right away. I didn't dive into the Battlemage pool until after I had some success with Blademasters and clerics, then I figured it was time to jump into the mix and test them out. I also think it was because Morchial.. I think that's his name, was an absolute monster as a battlemage in Nexus. I vowed one day to try one out specifically because of how nasty he was. 

[Kyzarius]

20 minutes ago, Seravin said:

Could we elaborate on these points? Fully spelled up, 550 or better ac, I still struggled against a lot of higher end mobs in the game. Their damage is mediocre, and requires enemies not blocking attacks in some capacity. Sharp metal is a fairly weak spell against most everything, although it is consistent. Sear and meteor swarm have conditional requirements. 

I would honestly like to know what I’m missing with them. It sounds like other people know what they’re doing, and I would really like that input. Telling us all they can do well with X and Y, but not saying what those are isn’t particularly useful. 

And I want it to be clear that I was stating an opinion. I don’t think they’re very good, but I obviously don’t have the same insight as others. 

Sure, I would gladly elaborate on what I found. 

1. flash-fire is king for running gauntlets.  Its duration is next to godly and you can easily go through the  asylum ,magic, or steel. by just blinding and fleeing.  Can be ...exciting...if you slip up, but overall it REALLY helps them. 
2. Slow on tap really sets them apart from other casters.  Only Bmage and psion have it.  This really helps with recovery in PVE and PVP.  Savant brings in a means to cancel the slow, which is where it brings some synnergy.
3. proficiency items for Sear and Meteor swarm remove the location requirements.  So you can Meteor in doors.  Now you need the meteorite from gear, and the battle-mage item from Avalon.  The Avalon item really helps the class overall because it boosts several of their meta combat skills
4. They lack in saves reduction spells/skills, so the plummet, or age from savant, really completes their kit.  
5. I ended up having around -550 ac myself, and ~1100 hp.  I did not have to gear swap for saves.  
6. finding a heavy weapon is important as eldrich weapon uses the weight for the damage.  But there are several to choose from.  I ran with a more traditional setup with soulblight.  

Just like many other classes they shine in certain cabals mainly because the cabal helps cover their weaknesses. 

1. Savant is the default answer imo.  It helps any mage.  Temporum giving spell level, saves reduction, mana cost improvements, and duration on all those buffs while also adding attrition.  If you liked the class I would strongly recommend re-rolling and going for Savant. 
2. That being said a Warder battle-mage would be a BITCH to fight, the extra damage and AC, webbing as another debuff (if it ever lands..), and Gaia's defense would synergize massively with them. 
3. Pandemonium is also another that has been super successful for Bmages in the past with damage reduction and powerful debuffs that only enhance their kit with eye.  

PVP wise..

1. they have 2 sources of blind, which is very nice.  The timing for Sear and having an alert setup can really put you in a winning position as its blind from 11 am to 1pm is pretty high level.  
2. Thunderclap can RUIN someones day so hard.  Yes people adjust, but it is all about timing it to when they are desperate or the fight is getting down to the wire. 
3. Your opponent has to have cursed weapons or you auto disarm
4. your opponent has to be flying...or they can get tripped. 
5. Given a pet like in tribunal they can really help up the output with haste. 
6. Landing a mid fight dispel followed by a meteor can win the fight for you.  Especially if your opponent has committed.  this was my main strat.  Get some debuffs in work them down then suddenly turn up the damage when it is least expected.  

 

I don't recommend them for new players because...

1. they are a little gear dependent, especially with the advantages proficiency bring. 
2. A dispel or haymaker can destroy you so fighting capable classes can be a bit, well living on the edge.
3. they have no lag to speak of.  Trip yes, but you almost always have to get a dispel in to take advantage of it.  Thunder clap is disorienting, but not impossible to just work through. 
4. knowing when to engage and press the attack, or withdraw and grab a tic, is more important with them than say an invoker.  

 

All in all i would say they are a moderate skill level class.  Requiring some higher than average gear knowledge verses other casters.  But like other higher skill classes they peak a bit stronger than other mages too.  A geared bmage at T in a cabal feels like a walking armory.  

[Seravin]

I want to say I’m not arguing with you here. This is just my experience recently. I was flat out outdamaged by Sederahn, Lanmotte, Mnymsza, and Athunasa. In the case of Seder and Athu, it wasn’t just call lightning/thunderstorm either. In a single tick I was running for the hills. I couldn’t land a dispel, or try to rust/thunderclap/flashfire without losing a tremendous amount of hp. Trying to catch ticks is really unreliable if your opponent is even a tiny bit skilled. And even with the sea elf ring and field dressing, I was not keeping up in the slightest. 

I didn’t know about sear and meteor, but most people know not to fight around noon, and against any other c/c, manalock seems more important than force field to use meteors. A successful dispel on a bmg means a full reset most of the time. To add on to that. Both sear and meteors are two rounds of lag. Neither is typically reliable or usable all the time, unless you have an item from gear or Avalon. 

Im not sure where my rambling is going, but I guess my issues were kinda:

They get blades/dancing blade, but it’s easily avoidable damage. 

Their defenses aren’t great, despite having 4? 5? Of them. 

Their best damage spells are two rounds of lag, and conditional.

They seem to be cabal dependent to a point. 

They feel built for attrition, but unless you’re good at running and catching ticks, or your opponent is poor at chasing, they don’t do it well. 

Field dressing is a huge pile of dookie.

edit: reflective shield doesn’t seem worth using in any case. Everyone uses magic weapons, and force field seems more useful.    

[Kyzarius]

I did not know your character, were you in a cabal? The people you mentioned are all T I believe in Cabals.