The cut throat "single" player attitude

['tarako]

This isn't a direct jab at anyone so please take what I'm saying as a general observation. It seems there is a growing attitude that any, and all, characters that can be seen all remotely opposed to you should be hammered into deletion the moment that option is available. I've watched several super decked T, and E, characters absolutely hounding people who where not even 50 . I understand characters will have differences, and often that is going to lead to pvp. What it shouldn't do is lead to your goal being to see that character ground into dust relentlessly. Your goal should never be to see someone quit the game. As Tenebris I was a murderous, angry, half drow. I also went out of my way to rp with my polar opposites in game. I revealed secrets about myself to avatars, I gave them advice, I enchanted eq for them. I wanted them to be my epic arch nemesis. I did not want them to quit the game. I did not hound them every login forcing them to take deaths, or quit. I did not harass them, then bounty them when they logged. This is a multi-player game that has no win condition. A lot of people are assuming that means you should just be obliterating everything with a pk flag, and spite looting the bodies. If this is your idea of doing well in FL, you likely shouldn't be here. This is about creating an amazing world for everyone to enjoy, it isn't single player. Your opposition is pouring their hours into the game just like you. That deserves respect, even if it is in opposition. I realize that is likely controversial, but the goal in any character should be to create a lasting impression, and leaving a legacy of well played chars. Not to just make everyone who opposes you hate logging in. It is possible to play an enemy without being an asshole. The more people who can do that, the better the game will be. If you spend your time treating the game like you are the only person here, eventually you will be.

[Imoutgoodbye]

That's not controversial.  That's common sense and a display of decency.  

Your lack of paragraphs is atrocious and a crime against these forums, though.  I'm afraid I'll have to frisk you now.

[sarcon]

This is a game where each person can play the game how they seem fit. I don't think there is any particular rule or way it should be played. Sure there are points of respect and points of things to do and not to do, but overall it's a game of free choices. This is a game that particularly can feel like how real life was back in the day if there was ghouls, demons, avatars and dragons on my. I can imagine that if Lord of the rings was real life back in the day, life would be really tough depending on where you lived. 

You might have your style, and other people have their styles, that's what makes this game unique. I love when I can interact with people that have great RP and give awesome character depth and really cool interactions. However, at the same time, I love when you get your cowboys that think they can run the player base by just chopping people down and ends up becoming your motivation to take em out. This has happened many times where for me personally it's made me a much better player because I would be determined to be able to go toe to toe with them. 

Now with regards to Elders or Trusted stomping out younger players, I haven't personally seen that too much. I don't think anyone really would do that unless they have a good reason. Maybe that younger player was talking smack when they couldn't be harmed, but now they can so what now...who knows. Maybe they are the sworn enemy of the other player.. in that case all the power to them if they are really deep into their characters RP. I personally don't take any type of PK personally. If someone is trying to come get me, I'll do everything in my power to eventually smoke em out and get some revenge and bust them out, it's only going to make me a better player. But again, I think this post is more about how you personally like to play, and how you wish/hope other people would play the game along with you to get maximum experience from it. However, this game is kinda like life, and sometimes life doesn't do the things you want it to do, so then you have to get creative and figure new approaches. 

['tarako]

It's been said many times but you can't really compare fl to real life, or any fantasy setting with a defined story arc that has circumstances for an ending. 

 

The point of this is sometimes you have to understand the person you're trying to make rage quit is a member of our tiny community. Alienating them, or making their game sessions shit, is a dick move. It doesn't matter if you can justify your vamp hating elves on paper. You can generate some generic "god chose me to do x,y, and z" rp in minutes. What I'm saying is we are an ever shrinking community, and the way we lose people is disrespecting their efforts, and making their time pointless. Why would I ever play anything that is going to subject me to that much unwarranted shit because I wanted to play a specific combo. I'm sure we have lost several characters over spite loots (just saw one yesterday) and I've played chars I've deleted at 50 because I never got a chance to do anything but fight decked elders, and trusted, chars wearing eq I got at level 30. 

 

This attitude of "I can justify it through rp" is just as much bullshit as looting someone then dropping the eq you dont need in your cabal. At a certain point you just have to say "well, they got shit on. I should prolly calm down a bit". Have a little self control instead of trying to say it's justified. I can justify being a prick, but it doesn't make me being a prick worth justifying.

[Seravin]

I don’t think there’s any way to defend the opposite position here. There is no reason for anyone in the game, ever, to attack someone nonstop. 
 

Like tarako said, some players play to ‘win’ and if they continue to play that way, they’re gonna win a whole bunch of nothing. If someone just stomps you every time you log on, why bother to log on? It’s griefing, plain and simple. It’s not fun, it’s not rp, it’s a player vendetta. 
 

I think some people need to take a step back and realize that killing someone in this game should be kind of a big deal. Yes it’s fantasy, yes we have 60 lives. But when someone calls you stupid in real life, do you punch them? Casually attacking people with the intent to kill should be something you think about for more than it takes to see a pk flag. 
 

Edit: yes it’s a matter of how I play vs how you play. But if how you play makes the game suck for people, that’s toxic. 

[sarcon]

I don't know what to say brother, we have all experienced decked Elders bringing the pain. That's why you take your time, avoid fights and slowly but surely get some key pieces of armor and bust them up. The game now offers ways to get your AC to like -450 to -500 with ease. This will give you the ability to survive a lot of these encounters until you start collecting some key pieces. If someone is talking smack to you, take it with a grain of salt and take notes for the next time you see them when you are ready. 

It seems like your feelings are getting a little hurt because some elders are coming after one of your characters that doesn't seem to be ready yet, not geared up. I know how this feels man, it can be frustrating. Me personally I would use this as fuel. I would get mad and want to get even, it wouldn't make me want to fold up and not want to play, however again, that comes down to people's personalities. I'm very competitive and don't like losing. I will do all the work necessary to not lose. 

If you are getting frustrated with other people, I would take some time and think about what you could do vs what you hope these others can do. Take it step by step, get some EQ piece by piece, and eventually get yourself to a point when you can go toe to toe. It's going to take patiences, thick skin and a drive inside you to want to get even. It comes down to how bad do you want it man and just go for it. 

[sarcon]

I think you have had some great characters man and I would only hope you don't allow a few people talking some smack to you while getting spanked by a few Elders make you wanna tuck tale. Hopefully you can use that as fuel and go kick their butts! 

[Seravin]

Nobody’s looking for advice. We all know how to get better at the game. What we’re talking about is people playing the game in a way that makes it not fun. What I’m asking is why should I bother? If I don’t have fun logging in, be it because there’s not many people on, or there’s the one same person on every time I log on that beats my badly equipped toon up. Why should I put myself through that? 
 

On a personal note, I have an infant, work, a wife, and friends. My game time under normal circumstances is limited. I have numerous ways of entertaining myself. Why should I choose the mud over the other ones? At some point the top players need to check their ego and think about the other players playing the game. 

['tarako]

12 minutes ago, sarcon said:

I don't know what to say brother, we have all experienced decked Elders bringing the pain. That's why you take your time, avoid fights and slowly but surely get some key pieces of armor and bust them up. The game now offers ways to get your AC to like -450 to -500 with ease. This will give you the ability to survive a lot of these encounters until you start collecting some key pieces. If someone is talking smack to you, take it with a grain of salt and take notes for the next time you see them when you are ready. 

It seems like your feelings are getting a little hurt because some elders are coming after one of your characters that doesn't seem to be ready yet, not geared up. I know how this feels man, it can be frustrating. Me personally I would use this as fuel. I would get mad and want to get even, it wouldn't make me want to fold up and not want to play, however again, that comes down to people's personalities. I'm very competitive and don't like losing. I will do all the work necessary to not lose. 

If you are getting frustrated with other people, I would take some time and think about what you could do vs what you hope these others can do. Take it step by step, get some EQ piece by piece, and eventually get yourself to a point when you can go toe to toe. It's going to take patiences, thick skin and a drive inside you to want to get even. It comes down to how bad do you want it man and just go for it. 

This really has nothing to do with my characters at all. This has to do with the character I saw rage delete yesterday, and countless others over the last few months. If I shit stomp someone/they dont have a chance I go out of my way giving them 9advice, eq. I ran gear and gave knights a full suit of adeptus eq because they where dealing with alot. I actively seek out the super decked elders that aren't getting challenged. I actively choose underdog cabals. I do better in high pressure environments. Alot of people dont I've seen several chars rage delete in the last few days, countless more before that.

 

You won't find a person in game who had an overall negative view on my characters because even when we have to fight, I respect their playtime. I do not want peo8ple to log out, I do not want people to waste 20 to 100 hours just yo rage delete. I play characters with the goal of improving the gamestate. I could care less about destroying people, and even better is having characters as a long term nemesis. It isn't fun to just shit on some under equipped fresh pinn, then do it on repeat daily til they don't want to log in anymore. You have to accept that this is multi-player, and that your time IS NOT more valuable than anyone elses. 

['tarako]

I certainly have played chars that quit over adverse circumstances. I played a necro Trib A Few Months Ago that was absolutely shit on for 25 hours straight. I stayed til almost ready for T promotion, but I literally had 25 hours of being shit on, tagged, fighting 2 to 4 v1. I never got to get even basic eq, I never had backup. I was killed silently, and repeatedly. I was spite looted of wands, that where then left in cabal forever where I could not even come close to getting them. A log was then posted on forum because I wasn't easy enough to kill because of wimpy. How insulting to me as a person is that. Not that I easily took 20 deaths in a couple weeks, but that the opposing player was so self absorbed about it, that they felt they should be killing me even easier? Not that man, he's getting wrecked and staying in the fight. No, that it should be even easier to make someone's willful choice to be here something they regret. That attitude is completely mind boggling. Not even a nod to trying to stay in the fight, just post a log of them almost getting 3 rounded, and bitch about how it was too hard to kill them. 

['tarako]

For example, saw a sader rage delete after a death where I assume a holy weapon was sacced, watched a dk run from ragnomar, into a halfling ranger, then immediate4ly into a sader where he died all within maybe 12 ticks. Now I don't think anyone knew it was that way, and I don't mean to suggest it is. What I AM saying is everyone saw a fresh, weak, char on who list and they where ready to just shit on him. Saw an invoker get shit killed prepinn and rage deleted. That same dk was going to hunt with me to finish leveling, we where both mid 40s, but suddenly had to log because a pinned invoker, and druid where after him. He has been fighting decked pinns since before he was even level 50 and dying.

 

People are so desperate to get a pk, they don't care how shitty the circumstances might be. As a player I don't even get how you can be excited about a pk like that. Like YAAAYYY I killed a guy that was spam training, and was likely afk. Or sweet, killed the linkdead guy I've been having epic fights with. Better spite loot him because he wasn't at the keys. How is that even fun to just hound someone who has no chance of actually being in the fight.

[Rensvert]

I have had a lot of players shit on me in that regard, dying and being attacked pre 50 is the normal now. I would not recommend anyone leveling past 41 unless they can sit down and hammer out their way to 50 in a sitting. Because just like you said you will get attacked and shit on by 50's. We as a community have traded full loots, (probably because its now far harder to do them no more order all get all corpse), and in its place is the new pay attention to people not in your pk range so you can murder them at 42 or 43.

Its one of the main reasons why I dont get attached to any characters I roll and will delete them instantly, a lot of people enjoy playing the game where they play characters who see you at level 15 and decide that you did something that is worth killing you every chance they get.

[Lexi]

I can definitely say there's a difference to feeling like someone is being antagonistic towards your character and someone being antagonistic towards you as a player. Someon bombarding you with tells about how you are rp-ing your character 'wrong' (usually through quasi-OOC tells) or otherwise just trying to screw you over is just a disheartening experience when you're really pouring a lot of effort and energy into the game.

There's a distinction between having worthy enemies that will come for your scalp (Berston, Decimus, and Danpher was a fun era) and logging off feeling tired of the game because someone has made it their goal to make you as a player suffer if you stay logged in.

[Rensvert]

See I have nothing wrong with people killing me, I will do everything I can to avoid fighting 50's pre 50. but at 50 I expect to die, but its a bit strange to me that there are so many people who just come for people over and over again. The ones I dont mind are the guys who show up kill me once and move on with their lives. The ones who make it their characters life mission to come for me every time I log on, causes me to just log back off the first chance I can.

['tarako]

11 minutes ago, Rensvert said:

 

Its one of the main reasons why I dont get attached to any characters I roll and will delete them instantly, a lot of people enjoy playing the game where they play characters who see you at level 15 and decide that you did something that is worth killing you every chance they get.

I have seen alot of this going on. I had people as brinnyl tell me they where going to make me quit because my rp was opposite theirs when I was in my low 30s. I advertised it and knew I was gonna be fighting though. So I was more than ready with how stupid strong druids are.

 

2 minutes ago, Lexi said:

There's a distinction between having worthy enemies that will come for your scalp (Berston, Decimus, and Danpher was a fun era) and logging off feeling tired of the game because someone has made it their goal to make you as a player suffer if you stay logged in.

This is a much better version of my drawn-out message. Alot of people dont seem to care about the repercussions of their actions because their character can justify it because "muh rp let's me". I get it, I've played the super evil baddies. There is a huge difference between chaotic evil, and chaotic asshole. 

[Seravin]

Not too long ago, I looted a couple pieces of gear from someone, and they told me in tells they would hunt me to the ends of the earth forever, etc etc. it was their goal to destroy me. It sounded 100% like in game talk of ruining the game until I deleted. This from someone who attacked my character. Why in the world would I play a game with a person like that? And especially if they’re on frequently in my time zone? Nah man, I’ll just delete and do something else. 

['tarako]

Yea. A pretty common insult I've seen lately is some variation of "I'm gonna make you delete"

[Rensvert]

Jokes on them, because I'll delete just because someone does an emote I dislike. Pretty sure someone recently was attempting to "dab" and I just deleted right then and there.

[sarcon]

56 minutes ago, Seravin said:

Not too long ago, I looted a couple pieces of gear from someone, and they told me in tells they would hunt me to the ends of the earth forever, etc etc. it was their goal to destroy me. It sounded 100% like in game talk of ruining the game until I deleted. This from someone who attacked my character. Why in the world would I play a game with a person like that? And especially if they’re on frequently in my time zone? Nah man, I’ll just delete and do something else. 

Well, In my experience if you loot someone, most likely they will try and get those stuff back. Now, if they are sending some threats like I'm going to make it my personal goal to get you.. again, that's just a threat. Saying you are going to delete because someone is making threats, I dunno man, this seems like some super sensitive stuff over here.  Guys you do know you can play moderate and not worry about losing too much stuff when you fall.. like you can be a herald to and avoid combat. Saying you will delete and not play because someone said they are going to come for you and get their stuff back?? This definitely might be the wrong game for you. I've been playing this game for well over 25+ years and I've heard all of it. 

Good bad ugly.. You get everything in waves. Sometimes you will run into some dushy people, sometimes you run into some great people, sometimes there isn't much of anyone on. But again, you have to have thick skin and have fun with it. Taking everything so personally will kill your spirits. You will get tagged, ganged, threatened, chirped out, hugged, summoned, bashed.. all of it. That's all part of the game and you just keep pushing forward. The amount of times I've been ganged, full looted, people waiting on my pit, attacking me over and over and over again.. Cried, complained and just did anything possible to me has happened hundreds of times. But, you preserver and it only makes you better. If someone is talking to you a way you don't like, you ignore them. If you are not comfortable with PK, then go moderate and try to be a healer or something with high survivability. But again, I would recommend taking this stuff head on and eventually you will come out on top. Then you will notice the only time you will actually die, is if you lose your connection or you make a really really stupid mistake. 

[Seravin]

You are totally missing the point. There are people who are making the game not fun for some of us. People are playing the game to get others to delete, or quit. Griefing. It isn’t fun. This isn’t 1.0, stop telling people to harden up, or get thicker skin. There isn’t enough of a playerbase for a-holes to not be called out on their behavior. 
 

Thus game should be fun for everyone. Not just the best players.

 

And seriously, I do not need a pep talk. It is not a matter of getting killed or looted. It’s poor behavior in game. 
 

double edit: my specific situation, the character was mad about the gear, but their mission was to condeath me. Not kill me and get the gear back. They wanted my character gone forever. 

[Cephirus]

5 minutes ago, Seravin said:

You are totally missing the point. There are people who are making the game not fun for some of us. People are playing the game to get others to delete, or quit. Griefing. It isn’t fun. This isn’t 1.0, stop telling people to harden up, or get thicker skin. There isn’t enough of a playerbase for a-holes to not be called out on their behavior. 
 

Thus game should be fun for everyone. Not just the best players. 

The game is never going to be fun for everyone. I know what you are trying to get at, but if players have an attitude that they are just going to give up and delete, why should I care? They aren't willing to really commit to the game and be invested in their character if they are willing to just throw it away at a moments notice. Your investing your time, but if you are willing to just delete like that, it seems like you don't value it very much.

People are going to be butt-hurt, if they can't look beyond the game and act OOC, they will be identified and the staff will address it accordingly. If you are being harassed with non-rp BS, log and let the staff know.

[Lexi]

Re: @sarcon

Brushing off these concerns as people being overly sensitive and just needing to have a thicker skin is pretty presumptious. My last two characters each had 500+ hours each, with the first being a Savant in the era of Warmaster beasts (pre-eq remake). There were days I would log in and take 6-7 deaths, and yes, it was tedious at times, it was disheartening to see people join the cabal only to delete after getting stomped, but I didn't give up because I was too sensitive. That character earned a tattoo and made leader towards the very end of her career.

I have interacted with many, many characters in this game that were terrible foemen but still remained classy - their roleplay was neither amiable nor encouraging, but they gave me the breathing room to enjoy this game that I love to play. I have also met a few people who seemed to have a need to dominate me on an OOC level, doing everything they could to ruin the experience for me.

This is at the heart of the issue here. Why would I log in to play the game if I'm being berated and hounded to the point it is no longer enjoyable? There are other things I could do with my free time.

That said, my experience is that the Forsaken Lands of today is a far more forgiving  place today than it ever was before. Most people I meet (whether friends or enemies) seem to make effort towards making interaction meaningful rather than burdensome.

[sarcon]

21 minutes ago, Seravin said:

You are totally missing the point. There are people who are making the game not fun for some of us. People are playing the game to get others to delete, or quit. Griefing. It isn’t fun. This isn’t 1.0, stop telling people to harden up, or get thicker skin. There isn’t enough of a playerbase for a-holes to not be called out on their behavior. 
 

Thus game should be fun for everyone. Not just the best players.

 

And seriously, I do not need a pep talk. It is not a matter of getting killed or looted. It’s poor behavior in game. 
 

double edit: my specific situation, the character was mad about the gear, but their mission was to condeath me. Not kill me and get the gear back. They wanted my character gone forever. 

Man, you are going to get many threats. The amount of times people say "I will hunt you until you are no more" or "I will fight you until there is nothing left" or "You will never be safe and from this day your life is forfeit" Like, that happens all the time. Now, if you get someone that tells you "I am going to make you delete your character" Ya man, that is some serious OOC and not cool. Log that Conversation and report it. But just some basic threats, I don't know man, seems super sensitive. But again, if that's how you are feeling that you have the right to feel that way. Now, did this person kill you multiple times again and again? Because again, anyone can make threats, but how many times did they actually keep killing you? 

[Seravin]

Okay. Guess I just haven’t earned the right to complain. I have to play a character a certain number of hours before I’m allowed to have a problem with other players. I shouldn’t have to put up with people being shitty to me to get heard. 
 

But Lexi made my point better than I would. 

[sarcon]

4 minutes ago, Lexi said:

Re: @sarcon

Brushing off these concerns as people being overly sensitive and just needing to have a thicker skin is pretty presumptious. My last two characters each had 500+ hours each, with the first being a Savant in the era of Warmaster beasts (pre-eq remake). There were days I would log in and take 6-7 deaths, and yes, it was tedious at times, it was disheartening to see people join the cabal only to delete after getting stomped, but I didn't give up because I was too sensitive. That character earned a tattoo and made leader towards the very end of her career.

Maybe I'm coming off the wrong way, I'm not trying to just brush them off. I'm trying to share a little light in how I personally dealt with this. It was all these exact situations for me, that truly made me a better player. So, I'm sorry if I'm coming off like "who cares, toughen up buttercup" I'm really trying to say it was these type of frustrations that I also dealt with, which made me a better player. Instead of me worrying about what is happening to me, it made me spend more time on what I can control, and that was me and my play style. It took me from an average Pker to top tier pretty quickly. So again, I'm sorry if I'm coming across insensitive, I just wanted to express how sometimes you can turn things around.