Since I've been back.

[Izzzzy]

So I'm not gonna lie.  Love the forsaken lands and I'm a bit torn between how I feel about things.  People have been super friendly and have been showing me so much which I love.  Role play seems to be at an all time high.  Journals equipment.  Special things.  RP points.  What is sucking is pkill!  People are way too afraid to die.  It's like they think there record means something.  You're gonna die in this game.  Who the fuck cares???  Is it not fun to reequip and meet new players doing so?  I have the most fun going on adventures.  Another thing that sucks is this mud can not support this many cabals anymore.  I'm sorry it can't.  I sit alone most of the time bored out of my fucking mind.  Then I'll roll another character just to do anything.  I come on and my enemies quit.  Everyone wants to be a boss character.  It's actually pathetic.  I was involved in an incident where an ELDER killed one of my freshly pinned 50s while he was getting equipped.  His excuse was.....its an experiment.  Seems class has been thrown out the window and pkill record is so important.  Yeah bud I've fought you with my other actually dressed characters and you ran for your life then will not play when I'm playing.  

 

Don't know.  I'm so torn.  I've watched people delete over the stupidest of things.

 

Want new players?  Big changes need to be made.

[Rensvert]

In my experience the best way to not have people log out when you log in is to find those characters that do and RP with them. In my experience I am not so much willing to just get beat on, but will gladly fight someone who will put a little bit of RP my way. If someone instead just jumps me every time I see them, I just dont get anything out of that and would rather do something else. If I know the person is gonna RP a bit with me I am more willing to hang out and fight them.

['tarako]

Theres been a couple posts about the logoff mentality, and general cut throat attitude that where met with mixed reviews. While i agree with you to a point, it is actually a super complex problem. This game fundamentally rewards longevity, and pvp/rp. There are several classes that require pk for full power as well. When you have wait times for cabal promos, rp rewards, imm quests, people are going to avoid fighting when they have a fair chance of loss often enough. Pretty sure we have all witnessed it. Now what i seen is players who are playing underdog combos without faltering are getting rewards, titles, custom items, and cabal promos. I agree that it creates a boring environment for players, but it really isnt a quick fix at all. I've thought about it alot, and really i dont think you can just fix it with one change flat out.

[Imoutgoodbye]

2 hours ago, Iznazti said:

So I'm not gonna lie. 

You're going to tell a subjective truth?

2 hours ago, Iznazti said:

  Love the forsaken lands and I'm a bit torn between how I feel about things.  People have been super friendly and have been showing me so much which I love.  Role play seems to be at an all time high.  Journals equipment.  Special things.  RP points.  What is sucking is pkill!  People are way too afraid to die.  It's like they think there record means something.  You're gonna die in this game.  Who the fuck cares??? 

You're torn, that's for sure.  You love it, you hate it.  #1 Rule:  Death is to be Avoided.  I went 0-31 about three years ago.  I didn't know the number until I asked because my con wasn't so hot.  It's not about the record, it's about being able to hang and be competitive.  Once someone has your number, what's the point?  They're just going to kill you at their leisure.  Dying means something beyond record; it's a morale issue.  What we put into these characters can't be measured by some record.  The character has to mean something and if it's just to the point of being someone's silent punching bag or maybe a few cliched one-liners get tossed for scraps, forget it.  We don't have to participate in that.

 

2 hours ago, Iznazti said:

  Is it not fun to reequip and meet new players doing so?  I have the most fun going on adventures.  Another thing that sucks is this mud can not support this many cabals anymore.  I'm sorry it can't.  I sit alone most of the time bored out of my fucking mind.  Then I'll roll another character just to do anything.  I come on and my enemies quit.  Everyone wants to be a boss character.  It's actually pathetic.  

What new characters?  There are so few of us left and some of us only have time for ONE character at a time.  I put in 20 hours over three days last week.  That's the most I've put in in a long time.  I usually only have 10 hours.  If you come on and your enemies quit, well, they chose to quit.  That's on them, technically speaking, since being a "boss" isn't against the rules.  

2 hours ago, Iznazti said:

I was involved in an incident where an ELDER killed one of my freshly pinned 50s while he was getting equipped.  His excuse was.....its an experiment.  Seems class has been thrown out the window and pkill record is so important.  Yeah bud I've fought you with my other actually dressed characters and you ran for your life then will not play when I'm playing.  

 

Don't know.  I'm so torn.  I've watched people delete over the stupidest of things.

 

Want new players?  Big changes need to be made.

Personally, I'm not a fan of any caballed characters jumping fresh pinns, but it's happened to me so much, I don't even think about it anymore.  It's the "Welcome to 50" and "FL is a Dangerous Place" slogan.  People like to tout it when they're on the proper end of it.  

People delete.  It happens.  End of the day, nothing we can do about it.  If the character isn't fun, why keep going?  There's so much beyond this game that we can do and sometimes we go off and do just that.  

As for changes, that's been a trying thing.  As worn out and trite as this may sound, we have to be the change we want to see.  And it's not an easy fix because we're never all going to agree about what needs to happen.  

The whole "want new players" and "this mud will die" have been said SO MANY TIMES in my 20 years here.  It's like a giant stick people wave.  "Ceci n'est pas une pipe".  The thing is, it's just a representation.  There are issues beyond just what each player is feeling.  We're a niche game.  Consoles and computers are flashier.  Kids are just as interested in watching people play games on YouTube as they are playing the games themselves.   Honestly, I don't even know what to say about any of it anymore.

 

I just try to play the best I can and when I can.

[Velimir]

I've played regularly for about 3 months now after more than 10 years of absence, and the biggest problem/issue with FL I see is the lack of players. I understand this has been a hot topic for years (decades?), but if we had considerably more players I think overall many things would be better.

So is there anything we as players can do about it? I remember back in the days when Viri was still around there was the topic for voting on TMS (or whatever it was called), does it make sense to try to vote and bring the mud more visibility (and if yes where and how)?

V.

[Ali_gmud]

We've slacked quite a lot in recent months when it comes to the TMS. We are sitting at position 80 near the end of the month with 4 votes. Perhaps at the beginning of next month we can all put in more effort to increase our ranking. A lot of activity on discord, even if players aren't logged into the game. Having a reminder on there would be good way to keep people voting.

Between our new YouTube channel (which still needs more content) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCirat4g6MfN-CV_6lYbWSBQ and Soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/user-644989183/tracks there has been an effort to increase exposure. 

Is there any other suggestions to keep entertainment value in the game for solo play that would keep people interested during the down time periods? Personally I don't find the game kicks up in player count till the US time zones wake up.

There's been discussions of mini automated events that would offer some unique rewards, such as a bounty board filled with trackable, randomly spawned NPC's to defeat. Or raids on towns.

Storm giant village is under attack by pirates? Will you help them or assist in raiding.
The Hamlet is being plagued by a series of murders. Can you locate and eliminate the vampires randomly hidden about the town?

The rewards would need to feel worth it. I think inconsistent, valuable rewards. 

Hand in quest. Rewards one of 6 rewards.

1. Gold
2. Cps
3. Lock box with consumables
4. Lock box with rare armour or weapon
5. A key for a hidden loot crate, which is located at the end of discord/gear/desolation/asylum (with a rot timer)
6. small handful of rps

Those rewards, in my opinion, would be encouraging enough for people to participate 




 

[Volgathras]

1 hour ago, Ali_gmud said:

There's been discussions of mini automated events that would offer some unique rewards, such as a bounty board filled with trackable, randomly spawned NPC's to defeat. Or raids on towns.

'Radial' quests have been universally panned by players in other games (looking at you Preston, smfh). It'll be another case of busy work, and I'm not sure how positively quest-grinding for rps and stuff will affect the rp-point economy. CPs, for instance, or not something most people have a hard time hoarding and that means they rarely have to think about using cabal powers. RP points should be exclusively earned through RP.

Instead I think we need other, non-pk alternatives in game to keep people engaged and logged in. Real in-game politics. A job system. Crafting. By providing fun alternatives to the pk grind we may be able to keep newcomers interested enough to learn how to pk effectively against a pretty ruthless veteran pbase.

[Izzzzy]

!

 

Well that was my I'm drunk post for the month......the hangover is real!

[Magick]

4 hours ago, Ali_gmud said:

We've slacked quite a lot in recent months when it comes to the TMS. We are sitting at position 80 near the end of the month with 4 votes. Perhaps at the beginning of next month we can all put in more effort to increase our ranking. A lot of activity on discord, even if players aren't logged into the game. Having a reminder on there would be good way to keep people voting.

We did this once, last year.  Got ourselves to the Top 20 easily.  The problem was, it was a mixed bag.

I think it boiled down to us having two problems: one we can control, the other we can't.  At least not directly, and not immediately.  The one we can't is basically number of players when people start showing up.  If they hit us during a lull, nothing much can be done.  Example:

Quote

Unknown Brother 02/18/2018
Mode tells you 'This MUD is in the top 20 on TopMudSites but no one is ever online?'

who
[   Human    ] Mode the Child of the Monastery
[50  Cons Mon] <PK> (Militia [T]) Agmeel Bramco the Grand Master of Seasons
Players matched: 2

The one we can control are what they initially see, such as the newbie area and character creation.  It's been said before that Lloth and the rest are working on a new newbie area, which should help quite a bit once completed.  Even with few players on, though the above should be expected initially.

And then we can focus on getting ourselves out there as the foundation would be set.

You mentioned a solo experience, and this would be true for those that appear at random.  I say that with an influx of new people, be it 2 or more, that solo experience is largely unnecessarily, though probably something simiar can be put on the plate at some point.  The reason being is when we announce ourselves out there once more, the way we do it should come into play, and play into our strengths rather than voting to put us in the Top 20 on TMS and playing hit or miss when people come on.
Instead, or perhaps as well, getting ourselves mentioned on Reddit and inviting people in during our more active times, and warning people about the off times.  Being up front.  "Hey, we're a little lean during these times, but stick in there and people will on.  Also, if you're in during an off-peak time, maybe more will see you in and come join."
This way people will know the why we're in this state if they join during our curren tdowntime and be more accepting of it rather than scoffing like "Mode" did.  Honestly, we're more likely to not get those people back if we're not prepared for it.

This would also mean that we need to update things like our TMS and Mud Connect and getting on the newer platforms like grapevine.haus and be active in the MUD subreddit.  Not just in advertising, but also actively participating in the MUD community at large.  And yes, the podcast on SoundCloud and the plans for YouTube will help with that.

The more avenues we have open to call on people, the more people we're likely to attract more people of a varying play time and the more the "solo experience" isn't needed.

Again, we'd need our ducks in a row first, else we'd potentially alienate anyone that does come looking if we're not prepared.

[Archbishop Monk]

I have to admit, I am undecided about logoff mentality.  To me, when I log on and people log off, that is just time for me to get busy with whatever plot of RP I was working on.  I think @Rensvert said it right.  If the first thing you do every time you log on is head straight to people and kill them, it makes sense to me that people would want to log off.  I don't think that most players hate dying so much as they hate not being able to have fun.  Losing can be fun if there is something you are doing that is fun.  So, if I have a good fight, almost won and then lost, I can say I had fun.  However, losing EQ means more time you will spend not having a fun fight because this game 'requires' EQ in order to be competitive.  Throw into that mix the rock/paper/scissor game and it gives less incentive to continue playing.  An invoker vs. a battle is a prime example.   Now, if you lose to a feral ninja as a battlemage and he takes your -saves you needed to face the invoker, you get the point.  

Let's also be clear here.  People generally do not log off due to RP, they log off due to PK  far more often.  If you RP with someone, take the time to get to know them to some degree IC, you might find they may stick around for the PK just to get more RP out of it.  In other words, there is 'something' they can do online to have fun.  

[Imoutgoodbye]

I hope Throne of Terror is the new mud school.  Something horrifying and awe inspiring for a new player is a big draw over a Unicorn Tutorial.  

Unless the unicorn is killing people.  That's funny.  

[Anume]

IMO the most annoying thing is that players either do not know what they want or they act in a manner that is opposite to what they want. I'll give a few examples (same player for each of them, mind):

I do not like ppl logging off from me - I call everyone a coward, tell them how great I am and how weak they are (even if they do fight me but just won't fall over and die and eventually log off). I feel it necessary to point out if someone logs off from someone else (true or not) and then again go on about how they are a coward, etc. (THIS is exactly why some ppl do log off. I'd not even call this kind of behavior rp.)

I do not like established characters killing new pinns - you should be more bloodthirsty and not focus on rp / stun people / teach people instead of killing them because you are an avatar / demon / praetorian / reaver / undead

I do not like established characters killing new pinns - I need easy kills to get xxx (cabal entrance / qthing / malform / path ...)

We'd have more players if people focused more on rping with weaker chars than killing them - xxx should not just rp with people but kill them, he/she/it is an (see above) after all.

And the list goes on.

Personally, I think if you treat other players like you would want to be treated yourself if you were in their shoes, you'll do things right most of the time.

[Fool_Hardy]

I spend a lot of time across many characters interacting with all of you. And while arguably RP and PK have improved over the years, I offer food for thought.

On PK.

There have been many powerhouses over the years, players who have made all of the best choices for success. This means, best race/class/cabal/perk synergies to insure they are in "easy" mode. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this in my opinion. However, if you are one of the best and playing one of these type of characters, you know you can kill even other top PKers if they are not also doing the same thing. And if you are fighting a below average pker or a new player, they likely have no chance of survival. You are free to kill people as you see fit, but I think it is pitiful to complain about player retention if you relentlessly seek to ruin the good time of other players through demoralizing tactics including over looting, sacrificing of equipment, or talking trash.

On RP.

As one who often plays "the supporting cast" to all of your heroes, I have to say your character development skills seem lacking when compared to your ability to RP initially. What I mean, I see many people RP like crazy for a while. Every interaction allowing me to see a little more of the character come out. As soon as you acquire the equipment, edges, and cabal rank you desire, the RP often gets shoved in the back seat for PK. Again, there is nothing wrong with this I suppose, but it makes it hard for those of us who only seek to watch your story play out, when instead of the grandiose plans you spoke of coming to fruition, we just get another Hit and Run Pker in whatever cabal in the end. Another note, RP should not be one sided. Many of you go on and on about your goals or back story, and then you falter or flat out lose interest in conversations when one of my characters asks pointed questions regarding the how's and why's. Interaction is key to the enjoyment of multiple players, be prepared to roll with the nuances that others bring to your situations.

On Voting.

Its fixed. We can all vote multiple times a day. If I use my smart phone, my desk top, my laptop, and my wife's phone, I can easily vote four times a day. If I catch it at the right time (difficult with my current job) I could vote 8 times a day. But like someone said earlier, even if we were on the top of the list, if a potential player logs in to 2 online, they will not stay. The best way to inspire new players to come and stay, is not to just vote, but to vote and then actually play.

On Player Retention.

If we want to truly ever see regularly 20+ players online, we need to be one of the best. Not say we are the best through votes, we need to be one of the best. I have offered my thoughts on prayer regarding this in the past but will share some thoughts here. Most mud players who come here will come because we already have a niche, we enforce RP and encourage PK. This has always been the case, and the numbers have fallen. I believe that we need to continue to be diverse in our development. We have as many or more races and classes as most other muds. But I personally believe that we could expand in this department. More classes, whether q-classes or base classes, could generate interest on forums like the mud connector for players who may be looking for a new experience. In the end however, I do not think I can say it better than @Anume did.

1 hour ago, Anume said:

I think if you treat other players like you would want to be treated yourself if you were in their shoes

This will be required to not drive a new or returning player away.

[Izzzzy]

10 hours ago, Volgathras said:

Instead I think we need other, non-pk alternatives in game to keep people engaged and logged in. Real in-game politics. A job system. Crafting. By providing fun alternatives to the pk grind we may be able to keep newcomers interested enough to learn how to pk effectively against a pretty ruthless veteran pbase.

love this idea!