Help a Mage is wrecking me.

[Kyzarius]

15 hours ago, 'tarako said:

This is my whole point. I have mostly given up relying on saves for combat. It's just much more reliable to counter the spell effects by using consumables. 

Though your point is sadly invalidated in regards to Sleep.  Especially if you are a low int race. 

['tarako]

Poisoning yourself invalidates sleep. That's dealing with the effects of the spell....

[Unknown Brother]

I love when people fight my mages without any saves. Locate gyvel... Looks like I got about 15 to burn through. 

 

Blind, flee... Blind, flee... Locate gyvel... 6 left. 

[Kyzarius]

1 hour ago, 'tarako said:

Poisoning yourself invalidates sleep. That's dealing with the effects of the spell....

True.  I was more pointing at the focus on saves in general and how INT plays a roll in sleep spells to varying degree based on the spell.

If you have a mental vuln low int giant then you are up shit creek trying to save against mental spells.  Especially sleep and most definitely hypnosis.

 

 

[Anume]

plus resist is 15, not 50

[kamikazi]

48 minutes ago, Anume said:

plus resist is 15, not 50

Always tought it was more. Dwarves are real damn hard to land a spell on even naked.

[egreir]

45 minutes ago, kamikazi said:

Always tought it was more. Dwarves are real damn hard to land a spell on even naked.

Magic resist might be -15 save vs spell and also -15 each saves category

[Kassieti]

2 minutes ago, egreir said:

Magic resist might be -15 save vs spell and also -15 each saves category

That would make it an effective -30 SvS which is not the case.  It's -15 SvS.

 

 

 

[Kyzarius]

does magic resist affect the deteriorate equation? I know it scales with saves.  Do the innate saves from the resist apply to Deteriorates roll? 

[kamikazi]

I'm sure it affects the amount of damage you take from spells as well, right? I mean...a dwarf with 15 svspell total, would take far less damage from a hellstream than a human with 30 svspell, correct? Maging them the tough little buggers they are.

[Kassieti]

Not sure, @Kyzarius.  I think resist is factored in.

Resistances are -15 @kamikazi.  In your example, they both would take the same range of damage given both would have -30 SvS.  Not that it matters as spells like hellstream are saved for half damage and not on a sliding scale.

[Chief]

Magical resistance most definitely reduces the overall damage, its very noticeable with consistent nuking spells. It also reduces the damage on magic noun weapon attacks.

[Trick]

Oddly enough,  dwarf magical resist used to reduce the damage of their vulnerability to water. Virigoth intentionally raised the damage of some spells, such as jet stream, to combat this directly. 

When @Erelei removed the affects of magic resist helping reduce their vulnerability during my time as Belderon, I don't believe he adjusted the damage of vuln so dwarves will take a higher amount of damage compared to other vuln races. Especially from things like jet stream that were increased in damage originally, but haven't, to my knowledge, been adjusted for the change in magic resist.

Of course, I am saying this without knowing everything our coder has done since the change, so this could be old information. 

 

EDIT:

I looked back through my prayer post and I forgot this happened so I want to edit with the correct info:

Quote

 

Jet steam got a buff at one point in the past, but it looks like that buff may be a little too large considering the implications of the spell and how quickly invokers can cast it.

I've reduced the roll by ~40% so it shouldn't hit as hard now.

I will not be making changes to the lag of the spell, or the dwarf resist, or paladins though.

 

I don't know what that ~40% brings it down to in relation to other vuln spells, but @Erelei did adjust it. My mistake. 

[Celerity]

I tend to agree with @'tarako. Pressure > Endurance. You are immune to (better than saving!) every spell they can't cast because they are fleeing or otherwise on the defense because you are hitting them like a truck.

Pressure doesn't have to be simple damage output...it could be disruption skills, but usually, it is damage. Cue whip lore's immense power in applying both damage and disruption plus the ideal weapon type. Similar situation with exotic lore.

Control the initiative like that and you'll control the battle.

If you can't output enough damage (e.g. against clerics), you'll eventually (or quickly!) lose if the player is good enough. That is the essence of why clerics are so dang strong and effective in PK. It is also the reason that non-giant-sized heavy melees are relatively bad: they trade offense for 'protection' and end up having neither as a result. A strong offense is an exceptional, and cheap, defense.

Of course, it works in reverse too. A dispel causes immense pressure/disruption on the melee and gives the caster the initiative. Who needs blind fighting when they are pin-balling from your flame arrow chasing and trying to put spells back up? Cue herb complaints.

It is easier for a caster to reset encounters/break your saves than it is for you to 'outlast' them with those saves. If they can't break your saves? Reset and try again. If you can't deal enough damage? You will lose. Thus the original emphasize on damage over protection.

Best case, naturally, is to have both. Traditionally easier for casters since their damage requires less eq slots to 'empower', but from the forum, seems to have been very easy for melees to have both in more recent history before the EQ revamp.

[kamikazi]

16 hours ago, Chief said:

Magical resistance most definitely reduces the overall damage, its very noticeable with consistent nuking spells. It also reduces the damage on magic noun weapon attacks.

Exactly my point. A dwarf with 15 svspell and a human with 30 svspell for example - flame arrow, the human would take mutilate trough sanc, as to a dwarf would only be hit for a decimate.

['tarako]

But a dwarf hit with jet steam will take mangles and a human will take devastates

[Chief]

1 hour ago, 'tarako said:

But a dwarf hit with jet steam will take mangles and a human will take devastates

Jet Steam got nerfed recently during Medvhaar's time.

It would make sense to do more damage considering it's their vuln and magic resist shouldn't calculate at all.

General spells such as Hellstream, Call lightning, Path of Deceit with semi consistent damage rolls all have noticeable damage reduction thanks to magic resistance. 

['tarako]

3 hours ago, Chief said:

Jet Steam got nerfed recently during Medvhaar's time.

It would make sense to do more damage considering it's their vuln and magic resist shouldn't calculate at all.

General spells such as Hellstream, Call lightning, Path of Deceit with semi consistent damage rolls all have noticeable damage reduction thanks to magic resistance. 

I just mean if you compare flame arrow, icicle, and jet steam (all the twice a round invoker vuln spells) vs their vuln races under similar save scenarios, jet steam hits harder.