Does this make me needy?

[Deykari]

Please. Not this discussion. Again.

Dey

[Warpnow]

Hey, he said smoking it doesn't make you stupid.

All I did was provide hard evidence to the contrary.

[MeleeCrazy]

July 1, 2003 -- Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

Surprising Finding

"We were somewhat surprised by our finding, especially since there's been a controversy for some years on whether long-term cannabis use causes brain damage," says lead researcher and psychiatrist Igor Grant, MD.

"I suppose we expected to see some differences in people who were heavy users, but in fact the differences were very minimal."

The marijuana users in those 15 studies -- which lasted between three months to more than 13 years -- had smoked marijuana several times a week or month or daily. Still, researchers say impairments were less than what is typically found from using alcohol or other drugs.

"All study participants were adults," says Grant, professor of psychiatry and director of the Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research Center at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine.

"However, there might be a different set of circumstances to a 12-year-old whose nervous system is still developing."

10 States OK Marijuana Use

Grant's analysis, published in the July issue of the Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, comes as many states consider laws allowing marijuana to be used to treat certain medical conditions. Earlier this year, Maryland became the 10th state to allow marijuana use to relieve pain and other symptoms of AIDS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, glaucoma, and other conditions -- joining Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington.

Medicinal marijuana is available by prescription in the Netherlands and a new marijuana drug is expected to be released in Great Britain later this year. In the U.S. and elsewhere, Marinol, a drug that is a synthetic form of marijuana and contains its active ingredient, THC, is available by prescription to treat loss of appetite associated with weight loss in AIDS patients.

Grant says he did the analysis to help determine long-term toxicity from long-term and frequent marijuana use. His center is currently conducting 11 studies to determine its safety and efficacy in treating several diseases.

"This finding enables us to see a marginal level of safety, if those studies prove that cannabis can be effective," Grant tells WebMD. "If we barely find this effect in long-term heavy users, then we are unlikely to see deleterious side effects in individuals who receive cannabis for a short time in a medical setting, which would be safer than what is practiced by street users."

Grant's findings come as no surprise to Tod Mikuriya, MD, former director of non-classified marijuana research for the National Institute of Mental Health Center for Narcotics and Drug Abuse Studies and author of The Marijuana Medical Handbook: A Guide to Therapeutic Use. He is currently president of the California Cannabis Medical Group, which has treated some 20,000 patients with medicinal marijuana and Marinol.

'Highly Effective Medicine'

"I just re-published a paper of the first survey for marijuana toxicity done in 1863 by the British government in India that was the most exhaustive medical study of its time in regards to possible difficulties and toxicity of cannabis. And it reached the same conclusion as Grant," Mikuriya tells WebMD.

"This is merely confirming what was known over 100 years ago, as well as what was learned by various government findings doing similar research -- marijuana is not toxic, but it is a highly effective medicine."

In fact, marijuana was available as a medicinal treatment in the U.S. until the 1930s.

Lester Grinspoon, MD, a retired Harvard Medical School psychiatrist who studied medicinal marijuana use since the 1960s and wrote two books on the topic, says that while Grant's finding provides more evidence on its safety, "it's nothing that those of us who have been studying this haven't known for a very long time.

"Marijuana is a remarkably safe and non-toxic drug that can effectively treat about 30 different conditions," he tells WebMD. "I predict it will become the aspirin of the 21st century, as more people recognize this."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOURCES: The Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, July 2003. Igor Grant, MD, professor of psychiatry, University of California, San Diego School of Medicine; director, UCSD Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research Center. Tod Mikuriya, MD, president, the California Cannabis Research Medical Group, Oakland; former director of non-classified marijuana research, the National Institute of Mental Health Center for Narcotics and Drug Abuse Studies. Lester Grinspoon, MD, professor emeritus of psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Boston; author, Marijuana: The Forbidden Medicine and Marihuana Reconsidered.

There you go Warp, I don't usually burden myself with finding evidence to support my beliefs, but just this once.

[MeleeCrazy]

Preclinical data recently published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation demonstrating that cannabinoids may spur brain cell growth has reignited the international debate regarding the impact of marijuana on the brain. However, unlike previous pseudo-scientific campaigns that attempted to link pot smoking with a litany of cognitive abnormalities, modern research suggests what many cannabis enthusiasts have speculated all along: ganja is good for you.

Cannabinoids & Neurogenesis

"Study turns pot wisdom on its head," pronounced the Globe and Mail in October. News wires throughout North America and the world touted similar headlines -- all of which were met with a monumental silence from federal officials and law enforcement. Why all the fuss? Researchers at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon found that the administration of synthetic cannabinoids in rats stimulated the proliferation of newborn neurons (nerve cells) in the hippocampus region of the brain and significantly reduced measures of anxiety and depression-like behavior. The results shocked researchers -- who noted that almost all other so-called "drugs of abuse," including alcohol and tobacco, decrease neurogenesis in adults -- and left the "pot kills brain cells" crowd with a platter of long-overdue egg on their faces.

While it would be premature to extrapolate the study's findings to humans, at a minimum, the data reinforce the notion that cannabinoids are unusually non-toxic to the brain and that even long-term use of marijuana likely represents little risk to brain function. The findings also offer further evidence that cannabinoids can play a role in the alleviation of depression and anxiety, and that cannabis-based medicines may one day offer a safer alternative to conventional anti-depressant pharmaceuticals such as Paxil and Prozac.

(Reference: Cannabinoids promote embryonic and adult hippocampus neurogenesis and produce anxiolytic and depressant-like effects. The Journal of Clinical Investigation. 2005)

Cannabis & Neuroprotection

Not only has modern science refuted the notion that marijuana is neurotoxic, recent scientific discoveries have indicated that cannabinoids are, in fact, neuroprotective, particularly against alcohol-induced brain damage. In a recent preclinical study -- the irony of which is obvious to anyone who reads it -- researchers at the US National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) reported that the administration of the non-psychoactive cannabinoid cannabidiol (CBD) reduced ethanol-induced cell death in the brain by up to 60 percent. "This study provides the first demonstration of CBD as an in vivo neuroprotectant ... in preventing binge ethanol-induced brain injury," the study's authors wrote in the May 2005 issue of the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics. Alcohol poisoning is linked to hundreds of preventable deaths each year in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control, while cannabis cannot cause death by overdose.

Of course, many US neurologists have known about cannabis' neuroprotective prowess for years. NIMH scientists in 1998 first touted the ability of natural cannabinoids to stave off the brain-damaging effects of stroke and acute head trauma. Similar findings were then replicated by investigators in the Netherlands and Italy and, most recently, by a Japanese research in 2005. However, attempts to measure the potential neuroprotective effects of synthetic cannabinoid-derived medications in humans have so far been inconclusive.

(References: Comparison of cannabidiol, antioxidants and diuretics in reversing binge ethanol-induced neurotoxicity. Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics. 2005 | Cannabidiol prevents cerebral infarction. Stroke. 2005 | Post-ischemic treatment with cannabidiol prevents electroencephalographic flattening, hyperlocomotion and neuronal injury in gerbils. Neuroscience Letters. 2003 | Neuroprotection by Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol, the main active compound in marijuana, against ouabain-induced in vivo excitotoxicity. Journal of Neuroscience. 2001 | Cannabidiol and Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol are neuroprotective antioxidants. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 1998)

Just for good measure...Now are we clear?

[Warpnow]

July 1, 2003 -- Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.

"People who smoked marijuana had changes in the blood flow in their brains even after a month of not smoking, according to a study published in the February 8 issue of Neurology, the scientific journal of the American Academy of Neurology."

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

"The marijuana users had PI values that were somewhat higher than those of people with chronic high blood pressure and diabetes," Herning said. "However, their values were lower than those of people with dementia. This suggests that marijuana use leads to abnormalities in the small blood vessels in the brain, because similar PI values have been seen in other diseases that affect the small blood vessels"

IE, that "protective" and "good" nature of marijuana is not actually good, but an abnormality which has caused health problems with other diseases.

"Last year, Netherlands researchers reviewed five studies and concluded that the use of marijuana (cannabis) approximately doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia. Because the studies excluded anyone with a history of psychosis and controlled for the use of other drugs, they were "able to show the specific effects of cannabis."

More likely to develop Psychosis.

You are operating using details gathered about people using it for MEDICINAL purposes. Its not the same. The doctors are referrencing its affects to other MEDICINE's affects, not to other forms of recreation. Its an entirely different ballgame.

"When one's memory is affected by high dose of marijuana, short-term memory is the first to be triggered. Marijuana's damage to short-term memory occurs because THC alters the way in which information is processed by the hippocampus, a brain area responsible for memory formation."

"Heavy marijuana use impairs a person's ability to form memories, recall events (see Marijuana, Memory, and the Hippocampus), and shift attention from one thing to another.8,33 THC also disrupts coordination and balance by binding to receptors in the cerebellum and basal ganglia, parts of the brain that regulate balance, posture, coordination of movement, and reaction time.11 Through its effects on the brain and body, marijuana intoxication can cause accidents. Studies show that approximately 6 to 11 percent of fatal accident victims test positive for THC. In many of these cases, alcohol is detected as well.34, 35, 36"

6 to 11 Percent? That's thousands of people a year dead. Hrm, murder, there's another reason not to do it.

"Heavy marijuana use impairs a person's ability to form memories, recall events (see Marijuana, Memory, and the Hippocampus), and shift attention from one thing to another.8,33 THC also disrupts coordination and balance by binding to receptors in the cerebellum and basal ganglia, parts of the brain that regulate balance, posture, coordination of movement, and reaction time.11 Through its effects on the brain and body, marijuana intoxication can cause accidents. Studies show that approximately 6 to 11 percent of fatal accident victims test positive for THC. In many of these cases, alcohol is detected as well.34, 35, 36"

Your sources are comparing marijuana to other forms of MEDICINE. Marijuana has less affect on mental health than Morpehene, but ever seena morphene abuser? Just because something is less bad than other things doesn't make it good.

THC is proven to slow the human mind's ability to retain information, recall events and to shift attention. It also slows the senses consideribly. The amount of THC contained in Marijuana has also been almost DOUBLEd in the last 20 years.

[Deykari]

Does this argument even matter? I highly doubt your posting of evidence will stop anybody smoking it, Warpnow, and I highly doubt anyone posting evidence that supports the counter-argument will change Warpnow's mind.

This argument is getting old.

Dey

[EtsoShex]

...Derailed, maybe?

[Warpnow]

Don't worry.

We outfitted this train with offroad wheels and 4-wheel drive.

[EtsoShex]

Oh, then good. Do you have tunes?

[MeleeCrazy]

Didn't bother reading the second article did you? It doesn't really matter anyways, there are studies both ways...and which studies to believe and which not is only a matter of opinion. You believe what you've been fed your entire life that "drugs are bad mmmkay", "pot" is a gateway drug, smoke pot and your future is ruined.......the point I was trying to get across, is well all that stuff you've heard is well...a half truth at best, and in my mind utter Bullsh!t. Anyway To call someone stupid because they do something is predujice, not that I really cared about it, and smart people smoke pot too...hell it's almost commonplace.

and no we don't have tunes...too loud.

[Warpnow]

When I started my post your second one wasn't there.

Alot of the people in my extended family do drugs, and I've seen the affect its had on them, and so I will never do it. I've seen families torn apart, children starved and good people turned into monsters because of their meddling in drugs. Its not what I've been told, its what I've seen.

I doubt people who feel strongly about the issue will change their mind, you're right, but there are people out their who may not have develeoped an opinion on the matter.

Politicians don't debate in order to convince the other politician.

[MeleeCrazy]

You can NOT become chemically dependent on POT, I myself have seen the horrible effects some drugs can have on a person and their family and friends, but never have I seen POT cause any of that. Compare it with alcohol, and tell me which is destructive, and then tell me which one should be legal.

[Warpnow]

Not to reopen a full blown debate but marijuana is addictive to about 10% of its users. Not everyone becomes dependent, but some people do.

Alcohol can definitely cause problems, and I'm not here saying Marijuana should be illegal, I'm here sayings its not smart, just like I don't think it would be smart to be a raging alcoholic.

[a-guitarist]

Edit: Slows memory and learning? I think that's a major part of how we judge intelligence.

Sooo.... I'm not itelligent because I have a bad memory and have a hard time picking things up?

Or wait... maybe because it's the horrid side affects of drugs that I was perscribed, and required both now and at the time, makes it okay?

Just because someone is slow, and has a hard time picking things up doesn't mean they're not intelligent. It means they're slow and have a hard time picking things up. Some of the most flourishing and in-depth conversations I've had have been with slow people. (Some may argue you've got to be one to understand one )

So here's my point: Just because someone has a PhD, owns their own business, is up-to-date with current events, or any slew of other **** that most people blindly label as "smarts" doesn't make them that way. Why? Because 99% of them are stuck up *******s who think they're better than everyone else and won't listen to a word someone else says. Sound familiar?

a-g

[MeleeCrazy]

well then I'm here saying it's a choice, and I honestly don't think it would hurt you. And I'm not saying that everyone should smoke, but for some poeple it's a good thing, not a blatantly bad thing as most would make it seem.

Oh and Thanks A-G for getting back to the original point i was trying to make before I went all pro-pot.

[Lethereal]

Someone please put this thread out of it's misery...

...please...

[MeleeCrazy]

It's still got a little life left me thinks....though the original topic is long dead.....I love derailing threads..

[Pali]

Marijuana is NOT physically addictive. Psychologically it can be, just like, oh, MUDDING can be. But marijuana has never been shown to cause a physical dependence like alcohol, cocaine, etc.

Also, a problem with studies showing that people in accidents test positive for THC is that THC remains in the system FAR longer than alcohol. I could go the next two weeks without smoking once and I'll still test positive for it. There's no way to really test whether someone was high while they were driving or not.

Now, personally, I'm inclined to agree more with the data MeleeCrazy's been posting than you have, Warpnow. Why? Because it fits with the many, many others studies on pot that I've read. A friend of mine at college (non-smoker) actually did a report about that study MeleeCrazy posted about the rats and neuron production. Most of the peer-reviewed studies I've seen about pot show that it causes very little damage to the body, and what little damage it does is mostly confined to the lungs. (Gee, breathing smoke of any kind damages the lungs. What a shock, eh?) Many of the studies I've seen that show extremely negative effects from pot use were not legit, and fail to survive peer review for serious publication. Pot can definitely temporarily impair short-term memory, but once the effects wear off there is no sustained memory impairment. Alcohol has a similar effect, as many people get drunk and then have no clue what they did the night before. Pot can negatively affect coordination, but studies have shown that it doesn't do so to nearly the extent (about 1/5) that alcohol does.

Another little well-known thing about pot is that it's nearly impossible to overdose on. And by nearly impossible, I mean nearly impossible. For an average adult human male, to get enough THC into your system to kill him he'd need to eat 160 pounds (70-ish kilograms) of pot. Another study I read showed that the necessary amount of marijuana required to build up a toxic dose in a mouse through smoke inhalation equated about 40,000 .3 gram bowls. In other words, overdosing is pretty much impossible.

[Pali]

this is going to turn into a flamefest' date=' and the thread has already fulfilled it's purpose. can an imm please lock this for me?[/quote']

No offense intended, but it's rather unfair to be the one who did a mass of flaming and then requests the thread be locked to prevent flaming. Calm down, relax, realize that most of the little remarks people have said, such as Grim Reefer's "You're in high school, you don't know anything" post, are meant more as jest than as insult. Everyone here who's graduated high school will likely agree that, compared to their life experiences now, they didn't know much. I'm not saying you're an idiot, I'm saying that you simply do not have the life experience of people who've graduated, who work jobs to pay rent, who live completely on their own. There's a difference between book smarts and life smarts. High school teaches you the former. Life after it teaches you the latter.

[Warpnow]

Yet, just like anything, intelligence Varies.

There are some adults who are dumb as a bag of ****. Trust me. I've met them. Like the teacher who told me they should only release King James versions of the bible because she doesn't want a "translation" *slap forehead*

[Pali]

Yet, just like anything, intelligence Varies.

There are some adults who are dumb as a bag of ****. Trust me. I've met them. Like the teacher who told me they should only release King James versions of the bible because she doesn't want a "translation" *slap forehead*

I've met plenty of completely idiotic adults. I've met MORE completely idiotic teenagers. I hold nothing against teenagers for this, because if teenagers were meant to be adults, they'd be able to buy booze or run for president. They can't. There are reasons for this. I'm not saying that anybody who's posted on this thread is an idiot or lacking intelligence, but there is something to be said for being able to recognize who/what you are and what you do/don't know because of that.

[brsingr]

... I didn't say that I was smarter than him BECAUSE he was a stoner, I just said I know I am smarter than that stoner.

[inscribed]

... I didn't say that I was smarter than him BECAUSE he was a stoner' date=' I just said I know I am smarter than that stoner.[/quote']

bumping thread that is 2 weeks old = I WANT ATTENTION.

[brsingr]

Your sources are comparing marijuana to other forms of MEDICINE. Marijuana has less affect on mental health than Morpehene, but ever seena morphene abuser? Just because something is less bad than other things doesn't make it good.

well, I actually have seen a morphene abuser. My cousin was in jail because of morphene abuse. he would inject himself with morphene and take an anti depressant, and just lay there for hours. he's clean now, but he was addicted.

[brsingr]

I havent used comp for 3 weeks. i didnt know how old it was. anyways, i asked an imm to lock it last time i posted.