Syndicate, Watcher, and Tribunal raiding.

How raids work right now:

You send a raid at desired location at a desired strength value. Mobs then attack the city and kill guards, shopkeepers, citizens, etc for a set amount of time. During the whole raid the raiding cabal receives cabal points and support. The raided cabal is losing CPs/support and if the raid is successful the raided cabal’s strong guardian turns into a weak guardian and they lose a cabal skill or two depending on support values.

Once the raid ends, the city is “reset” and everything is as it was with the exception of the raided cabal’s powers and guardian. I think the advantage of raiding for PK reasons is nice, but I feel like the system is lacking in potential world changing RP.

My idea is to change the system to affect the world. By this I mean:

If Watcher or Syndicate sends a raid and it is successful then the area should be changed into a Syndicate/Watcher controlled zone. The shops and guards should change if the area is taken.

It would be a gradual change instead of just a massive swap on the hour. If the raiding cabal succeeds in taking over the city then it would take 24 hours(1 day in game) for the city to be changed.

If you LOSE the city, you have to wait a set amount of time before your forces have rallied and can attempt to storm the city and reclaim it. Allies can make this process quicker by lending you support and troops to assault the lost city.

This will give the cabals that don't have an army system to still hold areas and be impactful in the world of politics by controlling crucial focal points in the world. 

This can eventually lead to specific shops that are only opened when a certain cabal maintains control of a certain city. If you want a specific shop in place, you might be more inclined to defend/assault or lend support for the side you want to be in control. If you don't want laws in place because you are chaotic, then you might want Syndicate/Watcher to take over to abolish said laws and vice versa.

Thoughts, comments, concerns?

+99999

I like it. Raid has always felt silly and relatively useless.

In fact, I wouldn't even raid cities because at best I would net +5cps, and that's assuming I went in myself and killed almost all the enemy mobs.

I like the idea!

Question: I have no strong feelings one way or the other, but do you see Tribunal having an offensive recourse, or only defend/retake?

What would they take?

They've honestly already taken something in the creation of the cities from the start. They are trying to enforce their laws and their civilization over other people.

Our we talking from an RP perspective or a mechanics perspective? From an RP perspective, I agree (mostly). From a mechanics perspective, I think it would add to the fun of their cabal - just like we're trying to do with the others - to have another piece of cabal-to-cabal interaction.

this actually goes beyond JUST the Tribunal. it effects IG politics as a whole.

I've never liked the Raid system because it isn't applied as it should be. if you raid a small village, chances are you will either get away with it or draw the unwanted attention of whomever is providing protection for that small village. however, Raids on big cities, like the Tri-cities, would be met with swift judgement. as it stands, cities get raided and there is nothing to be done but attack the mobs yourself - while usually fighting off a pker. where does that leave the mobs of the city - the citizens? where does that leave Nobles/Royals? why does a cabal (which isn't suppose to have the resources of an entire Kingdom) get a slew of mobs to raid a city without suffering any sort of repercussion/consequence than the ire of a singular Noble/Royal player? why do Tribunals/Royals/Nobles not get something coded for them that gathers mobs to overrun the Watcher/Syndicate cabals? what about forming a Passe to go and collect the offending individual that ordered the Raid? I get that there is some separation between the game/realism, but this is a situation in which it doesn't correlate well. 

if change to Raid is needed... maybe the Raid system could be used to break fellow cabal members out of jail? creating havoc along the way is fine, but never really being anything other than a nuisance to the City as a whole.

Watcher/Syndicate doesn't control anything outside of their own cabal. Tribunal being able to raid their cabal directly would be extremely powerful. Tribunal is already the strongest cabal in the game(Anume admitted this herself). They control areas in the game that aren't just for armies, but they can set laws that have to be obeyed or you risk heavy punishment. Tribunal doesn't need the ability to raid a cabal directly as they are already naturally in control of land that goes against specific RP set by cabal standards. It is up to Watcher/Syndicate to raid THEM and take it. Once it is taken, Tribunal will, of course, be allowed to raid back and take control of the cities.

Its a war for the cities of Aabahran. That's the big target.

Breaking someone out of jail can already happen with the way raids work. That being said, there isn't enough incentive to raid for that alone when a player can kill that guard directly and faster where as raids are random and weaker. 

Also, although I responded to your post, Professor, I don't understand if you're for or against the idea I proposed.

Being raided pays a pretty hearty consequence already. If it's a one on one scenario and watcher raids a tribunal city, you can count on tribunal losing veteran through leader skills, as well as the cabal guard reverting to the one with less hp. This scenario of course depends on the watcher and tribunal actively involved in pk while the raid is going on to the point of the tribunal not being able to defend as he is fighting the watcher instead.

The raiding system was created and intended for a time when our pbase was higher, and it wasn't typically a 1v1 situation, or when there were actually other people online who's rp dictated protecting the cities.

If changes are made to where raiding had more significant consequences and/or RP ramifications the power of raids should be looked at beforehand.

I remember when tribunal had two hard coded vendettas and you could count on being raided by syndicate and watcher at the same time or directly after each other. However in those days there was usually back up.

I have had a few Watchers and raiding (even succesfully) tends to cost more than it is worth. 

Honestly, Watchers should be able to burn the cities to the ground and have it last.

If continuous raids are succesfull, areas of town should turn green as the forest comes back in. Tribunal should not be able to protect or place Wanted flags in those areas.

City sprawl vs. forest reclamation would be a cool mechanic to add to this.

I agree it is poorly envisioned, as is the entire cabal warfare system as it stands.

I'm neither for nor against your idea presently as I was wondering how it would effect Royals and Nobles.

instead of Cabals being powerful organizations, it already seems more like Cabals are Nations within Aabahran... Nations that vie for the land. actual cities, towns, etc... are inconsequential. I do think your suggestion would exacerbate the aforementioned problems. 

my tangent in the previous post was in regards to how I personally feel about our current system - raid being a part of that.
the hardest part to grasp is why a city, full of Heroes - players, would ever let an organization raid them. why is it that these cabals are going around 'claiming' territories in the first place? the cities themselves don't have any real power. that's why politics beyond a cabal can't work in our world, it would require maneuvers, consequences and repercussions. killing outright would cause wars, etc... but you see, Cabals aren't meant to roleplay political maneuvers, they're meant to be military forces that go to war. I believe Cabals could be a part of the political scene, Cabals and cabal members would be powerful allies, but the cities themselves should be their own source of power. an avenue that is geared toward roleplay, where making connections between Cities and Cabals is what both strive for... Cabals being powerful military forces that can back certain political figures... all while continuing to have rivalry with other Cabals... just as the cities will continue to struggle among themselves... trying to gain the support of powerful organizations like our Cabals... and so on... I went off on a tangent again, I digress... 

ps
my suggestion about the jail break was meant to steer the raid toward a specific task, rather than the limited change (with the slaying of guards & shopkeeps) that ultimately gets reset. the function would also prove to be a distraction or ulterior motive as the person who created the Raid can simultaneously free someone from jail while retrieving a standard, thus dividing the Tribunal's attention. the suggestion was meant to focus how raid currently works and alter it from truly effecting the city. (a complete -opposite- suggestion to your own. one that would address the issue of not being 'world changing' enough by not having it change all that much)

You had a similar idea some time ago. I like them both anyway.

Tribunal are the strongest cabal, supposed to have 2 active vendettas (which they currently don't), so I see no harm.

That being said, for the raiding cabal, it's usually more beneficial not to raid, rather than TO raid.

You had a similar idea some time ago. I like them both anyway.

 

Tribunal are the strongest cabal, supposed to have 2 active vendettas (which they currently don't), so I see no harm.

 

That being said, for the raiding cabal, it's usually more beneficial not to raid, rather than TO raid.

That's the original post! I couldn't find it when I was looking earlier. Thanks for finding that. 

In that particular thread no IMM really gave much of an opinion on the idea suggested outside of the fact that an overhaul to warfare is a massive undertaking. A situation when we didn't have a skilled, dedicated coder to handle such a task. No offense to Tongar. 

I really do believe this concept will START with these cabals and has the potential to grow into all other cabals. By that I mean, if Knight controls say.. Blackwatch Village, then a strong guardian may walk around that is made from starstone. Kill it and you get slabs. If Nexus controls it, you get vellum if you kill it. This idea can be stretched to shops, items, scrolls, gold, armor, weapons, etc depending on what cabal owns what area. 

Our warfare system is extremely difficult to overhaul. This has been made abundantly clear by the Staff. This change, or rather addition, will make it mean a little bit more without having to completely change the entire system. 

Honestly, how much do lands REALLY matter? I haven't noticed a difference in PKing in my cabal's land vs my enemy's. It doesn't matter in the slightest. This will give some substance to a system that lacks so much.

There are huge benefits to raiding if you do it correctly. If you are solely considering the CP gain, then sometimes yes, a lot of times no. But if you consider all the penalties you impose on the other cabal? I raided every chance I got when I played a Watcher, because there are other advantages gained aside CP.

I'm not disputing the benefits you can get from raiding a cabal's area. I mentioned that in my post. What I am disputing is the way it impacts the game.

And I'm not disputing your original post, just other posts that say that raids aren't worth using.

I am however, suggesting that if we make raids impact the game more (which is a great idea,) that we adjust the strength of raids to accommodate our smaller pbase.

If my suggestion is taken positively by the Staff then I'd like to see the support/loss of CPs to be removed from the affects of raiding. Cabals wouldn't lose powers, CPs, or their strong guardian due to a raid. The punishment/reward(depending on side) would be the cities themselves. Putting the attention more on the area and less on PK.

Yes! Thank you Trick. I'd like to think I had several influential Watchers in the past that tried to re-shape small portions of the world. One wanted to have raids turn rooms green, even went around and had others start planning seeds around val miran, another wanted to bring a library to a forest, the other wanted to use his magic to bring the eridani river up onto the southern road. But no matter how well Watcher did and how poorly or non-existent Tribunal were, Tribunal kept taking control of cities lol. It was a bit biased and felt like nothing nature did mattered.

The idea of raids actually meaning something other than cps loss or gain would be great! Rooms changing green where the people or Tribunal will need to cut up all the weeds and greenery to restore it. Water washing ashore and relief would be needed to get water out of the cites. Earthquakes destroying some rooms or jails and it takes time or support to sweep up all the debris to restore it. Big mobs changing to match the cabal whom put in the time to make it happen. Shops changing and allowing outlaws/wanteds to shop.

Oops, posted in wrong thread.

Wrong thread there, champ.