Journals & RP points

[myrek]

When Killian retired, he published all/some of his journals and an imm held them up as examples of "how to achieve maximum points for journals". That is an incomplete idea. 

The journals are examples of how to maximize the RP point return on journals PER JOURNAL ENTRY. But how long did it take to write? To edit and format? To enter as a journal? It would take me forever to develop and write posts like Killian's.

But I've had some solid results from my journaling. My results came from providing insights into my character. Here's what I wrote about (in character):

• My goals
• Obstacles I've run into
  • External obstacles
  • Mental obstacles
• What I've done to try to advance my goals including failures
• How my character feels about how things are going
  • Nothing touchy-feely - just the high level stuff: pride, anger, frustration

I also tried to make them interesting. I have no idea if they were.

My journals weren't all homeruns. But they didn't require the time/effort that Killian-type journals would have required.

I'll take low-effort singles over high-effort grand slams. Getting 3 point for 15 minutes of work is worth more than getting 10 points for an hour of work.

I'm no expert and I'm not even saying that this is a good method. But it is a method. And I'd hate it if people stopped using the system because they didn't think it was worth their effort. 

I'm not recommending flooding the journal system with crap. I'm sure that would backfire. But I'd wager that you have room to test and experiment to find what works best for you.

[FatMike]

I work along the same lines as you. When I do take the time to write something I usually get decent points for it, not max but not min. Probably just like everyone else, mine just average out over time.

I also try to do the things you listed for the most part:

 a. Goals and what my character is doing to propel towards that.

 b. The start of a backstory that I can use to flesh out anything.

 c. Things that happen in game that I want to write about that I don't post a log for(because I don't have it logged).

 

But yeah, don't flood them with garbage. Getting those -10 points for anything hurts and it would be stupid to get it for just putting up something for the sake of posting.

[Seravin]

I think journals and their format have a huge number of possibilities and approaches. 
 

You can treat it like a diary, use a third person perspective, both omniscient and not, or just stream of consciousness. There’s a ton of ways to convey your characters lesser known characteristics. Thinking of the ways books are written is a good way to approach different methods. 
 

I personally never summarize except in the barest and briefest amounts. I wouldn’t want to read a report about how someone else went to gear, or dischord or whatever. It’s the interactions that are interesting. Nobody needs a round by round summary of a fight you had. But your characters inner monologue or how they felt before, during, and after they won/lost will tell much more. 
 

Journals can tell the hidden stories that don’t come out during rp. Imagine you’re a syndicate wannabe and you’re leveling with a paladin who starts talking about how he’s gonna destroy syndicate. Are you gonna stick it out because you need those levels or do you take off if you’re worried about him coming after you? Confront him? That’s the kind of thing a good journal is made of. A struggle that no one else sees. Get into your feelings. 
 

I think you can learn a lot about your character and their motivations by writing and reflecting on the experiences you had. 

[egreir]

I'd like to see what the range is for rewards, so I can gauge how I rate.

 

Notes 3-10

Journals 5-15

History 15-25

ForumLogs  5-15

 

 

etc

[kamikazi]

My RP rewards extend from 0 to 0. 0 posted logs, 0 journals...0 notes. 2 emotes per character life. Thats what I call discipline.

[Mmm Coffee]

9 minutes ago, kamikazi said:

My RP rewards extend from 0 to 0. 0 posted logs, 0 journals...0 notes. 2 emotes per character life. Thats what I call discipline.

By the time you create the emotes, you delete so I guess that makes sense

[FatMike]

21 minutes ago, egreir said:

I'd like to see what the range is for rewards, so I can gauge how I rate.

 

Notes 3-10

Journals 5-15

History 15-25

ForumLogs  5-15

 

 

etc

History goes lower - from personal experience

[Kassieti]

General range I award:

Notes: 1-10
Journals: 3-15
History: 10-20
Forum Logs: 4-25

Your mileage may vary.

[egreir]

Just now, Kassieti said:

General range I award:

Notes: 1-10
Journals: 3-15
History: 10-20
Forum Logs: 4-25

Your mileage may vary.

really appreciate you posting, first and foremost.

 

Begs the question, though - is there no standard set of value? Every IMM can award whatever they deem fit?

[Seravin]

From what I understand, there’s a guideline, but it’s subjective by imm.

[Kassieti]

The short answer is yes.  There's nothing set.

I look at four major categories: length, content, insight and story.  Each with a range of points awarded.  For example, journals are about 1-3 for each section.
Length: This one is pretty self explanatory.  Longer the submission, the more points you get.
Content: The actual substance of your work.  Is it drivel, got your 5 year-old nephew to write it, five lines of dialogue or do you actually put forth an effort?
Insight: What do you tell me about your character.  Do they grow?  Did a conversation or event have an impact and shape them?
Story: Are you telling me something in a coherent fashion; do you have direction in your narrative?  Do you keep me interested while reading?
Bonus: If I laugh, cry, think, etc about what you've written, you may get bonus points.

Histories are the more "standardized" as when you send your history check, you get 10 RP.  Any more is manually awarded and generally only for a well written one.

[egreir]

my history only got 10, 1 point per paragraph  guess i suck lol   these are all good bits of info, thank you again

[Seravin]

If you’re someone who wants a lot of rp, my suggestion is to set a goal that can only be achieved through rp. 
 

Say you’d like to build a house in game. Instead of spending your rp on a room, take the time to role play and journal how you do it. How did you get the wood/stone? Where did you get it? Nails, hammer, saw, etc. Did you do it all alone? Hire help? 
 

In this scenario you can write funny excerpts about how you chopped down a tree and it fell on your wagon. How mad you got at the price of a new hammer. Develop a hatred for sawing logs into boards, your newfound fear of heights when you tried to put the roof on. Some workers that taught you how to make windows and the new friends they became. 
 

This is just an example of how you can use your offline time to think of ways to flesh out your character. Do they get frustrated easily? Patient? Did they discover a new talent they didn’t realize? Maybe the work sparked a memory of your childhood home. 
 

You don’t have to limit your focus to the task, use it to expand your character and their past, present and future. 

[myrek]

1 hour ago, Seravin said:

If you’re someone who wants a lot of rp, my suggestion is to set a goal that can only be achieved through rp. 

That's really good advice. My character with the most RP points had a defined mission and I would format the journals as updates.

I forgot 1 bit in my initial post that @Kassieti hinted at: context. The IMMs won't know/understand why you're doing what you're doing unless you tell them.

[Kassieti]

7 minutes ago, myrek said:

The IMMs won't know/understand why you're doing what you're doing unless you tell them.

Which reminds me.

For the love of any divine being you choose to follow, if you're going to write dialogue, please, please, please identify the speakers.

Writing alternating lines of dialogue without the dialogue tag (e.g., said Kassieti) is fine, but only so long as you identify who is speaking and in which order.

Otherwise it's a confusing mess.

[Ulmusdorn]

3 hours ago, egreir said:

my history only got 10, 1 point per paragraph  guess i suck lol   these are all good bits of info, thank you again

The automatic history function - "History Approve" will automatically grant you 10rp points.

If you get a bonus on top of that, consider it a rare and delightful pleasure.

[EllaThePuppy]

FYI - all of Killian's journals were written logged in, in the basic client, in the note editor. No notepad, no fancy text editor, no tools other than a little time and eyeballing what might look good in terms of "scroll" type layout and the occasional poorly drawn ASCII-style picture. It didn't take that long once I got used to it, but you certainly don't have to go to those lengths to get good RP credit for your notes and journals.

[egreir]

11 minutes ago, EllaThePuppy said:

FYI - all of Killian's journals were written logged in, in the basic client, in the note editor. No notepad, no fancy text editor, no tools other than a little time and eyeballing what might look good in terms of "scroll" type layout and the occasional poorly drawn ASCII-style picture. It didn't take that long once I got used to it, but you certainly don't have to go to those lengths to get good RP credit for your notes and journals.

Lookout, we got a badass over here!!!   kidding  kinda lol

[sarcon]

I think it would be a great idea of we had the function to "AutoJournal". This would be a function where you could allow others to have access to your journals. I have been really enjoying jumping in on others RP instead of only focusing on my own, thus, if I had a way to know more about them and their story, perhaps I could add more depth and more value to their experience. 

I was RP'ing with a new Undead Monk recently and because he was so open with his character, I was easily able to jump in and have more fun with it. We actually were RP'ing before he turned, so it was really adding to the experience overall that related to him changing. I think this is very important for anyone trying for a Qclass, because then instead of sitting around trying to goat people into some RP sessions so you will be noticed, and then log it, they will already have an idea of where your story is going. 

Now with regards to Journals, I agree with what everyone is saying, I think it is important for you take the time to outline key points of your story, and potential character arcs, then outline them in point form and have at it. I tend to always add Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, etc to a specific title if I'm planning on continuing that particular perception/storyline to help keep the imms following along. 

[Kassieti]

4 hours ago, sarcon said:

I think it would be a great idea of we had the function to "AutoJournal". This would be a function where you could allow others to have access to your journals.

We do have things in place that are quite similar to this.

If you must send them out to a larger audience, you can send them as notes.  Nobody said your journals had to be posted as journals.
If you want people to find them, you can use either the draft or write commands.  The former takes a note you have sent and creates an inventory item.  The latter needs a sheet of paper you buy, but otherwise works as a note (open the editor and write), though you don't send it.

 

[Seravin]

Could we expand on draft and have it also include journals? Plus not have them disappear on shifts or whatever? So players could leave them for others to possibly find. As it is I could leave little notes lying around, but they wouldn’t last long. Even just a room like the library where they can be put into the tables or something there. 
 

Rensvert has brought up the idea of having journals be public a few times. Specifically in the context of public journals can get rp, but private ones do not. 

[Izzzzy]

5 minutes ago, Seravin said:

Rensvert has brought up the idea of having journals be public a few times. Specifically in the context of public journals can get rp, but private ones do not.

The Idea of a journal being public seems crazy to me when you can write a note that can be public.  A journal is a based on a characters journey, and how they feel about certain things.  I find this thread very odd.  Some players are great writers.  I for one suck at writing and do not enjoy it.  Hence no journals.  I don't even like writing my history.  That being said, if someone is better at articulating their characters thoughts and feelings through a journal, why would they want the whole world to see it.  There have been times I've written journals about how stupid I think a cabal mate is.  Why would I want this out in the open?  When I do want something in the open I write a note.  Also I do remember Ella did write things on paper for me to read and handed it to me on many occasions in game which I thought was bad ass.

 

[Mmm Coffee]

You can't make journals public across the board.  Then everyone would know things you are plotting, thinking, maybe you broke your cabal's rules or something and wrote about it, whatever the case....many journals are "private thoughts".  Many also are not which as Kass mentioned, you could use a note or paper.

[Rensvert]

12 hours ago, Mmm Coffee said:

You can't make journals public across the board.  Then everyone would know things you are plotting, thinking, maybe you broke your cabal's rules or something and wrote about it, whatever the case....many journals are "private thoughts".  Many also are not which as Kass mentioned, you could use a note or paper.

See you say that BUT if immortals can just choose to do it anyway then does it really matter? I for one think that if it's just at immortals discretion to release journal information public, then they might as well all be that way. 

While I agree that as journals currently sit they are private information, but again if an Immortal can just release it to the public anyway what does it really matter? 

[Lloth]

Making a lot of assumptions @Rensvert

 

We do not make journals public unless specifically asked to by the player who wrote it. Journals ARE private. Basically like diaries. 

 

As to journals being able to be toggled public/private... I'd vote against that any and every day. The key reason journals exist is so they can be private and separate from notes. No ooc info transfer. If a player wants to do what @EllaThePuppy did on deletion, and share their journals, more power to them. But as journals (especially live journals) are NOT meant to be public...

Notes and journals are formatted the same way. If you want to flex your creative writing muscles, do so using notes.