Journals & RP points

[Rensvert]

30 minutes ago, Erelei said:

If you don’t want your journals to be used to enhance the role play of your character and those around you, don’t write a journal. 
 

it’s that simple. IMMs should be considered omniscient, and while an immortal’s character may not have interacted with you, they can (and likely will) use your journals to immerse your character and your characters friends and enemies into your world. 

This is fine, but the argument is maybe dont say they are private then when they arent. The fact remains and what I've said in this thread multiple times now, if an immortals wants to release your journey they can and will. I think at this point everyone knows that though, so while I think its bullshit it happened and destroyed a character for me, at least now players wont write a journal they are not ok with being made public.

[Erelei]

Define private? We’re not forwarding your journals. We might use content in them to push roleplay along or immerse your character. 
 

An immortal will not copy your journal and make it public for anyone to read unless you end up in the graveyard (long dead) or ask for them to be posted post death. 
 

As for the situation you’re discussing - how about making the entire sentiment public so the player base can comment about just exactly what they think about how your journal was used with your character. 
 

If you write something in a journal that is supposed to be game changing (like assassinating the pirate in waterfall for instance) - we will probably use that and involve your character in some way or another. It’s called immersion. 

[Rensvert]

I dont reveal characters, and dont feel that is required. In discord Anume took credit for the releasing of info so I dont think it's going too far by saying that here. And I've said before in this thread that the journals contents were leaked to a herald that was then pushed to everyone in game.  Now that the staff is saying that journals are used at their discretion to be released I dont really care. 

My goal was to inform the playerbase that immortals can release your journal and the staff now says they are, I count this as a win for the playerbase as a whole. But I'm not revealing a character, that's not how I play. I shared the info the staff and frankly that should be enough.  

It is very possible you and the rest of the staff are think when I say "Leak" I meant that they gave the journal to another play to read and do whatever they want with it, but that's not what I meant. Leaks are just informing players about what the content in the journal is, which is what happened, I never meant to imply that I thought the journal was copy/pasted and emailed to another player.

Frankly if this stops another person's character from being ruined then I'm very happy that this information has been made public.

[Erelei]

How did this “ruin” your character again? Care to be blunt rather than thinly veiled in an attempt to make the IMMs look like the bad guys here?  What’d you write? What got shared, exactly? Why did it ruin your character?

[Rensvert]

1 hour ago, Erelei said:

How did this “ruin” your character again? Care to be blunt rather than thinly veiled in an attempt to make the IMMs look like the bad guys here?  What’d you write? What got shared, exactly? Why did it ruin your character?

I was very vocal with this to lloth. If you care, you can ask him for the supplied information. If you want to know how it affected my character I will gladly discuss it in PMs on discord or here, but as I said to you and other immortals I did not reveal and do not plan on it, so you are welcome to stop bullying me in an attempt to get me to do so.

[Lloth]

We're bullying you? You're sitting here making us look evil. 

 

You told me you felt like your journal was leaked to another character. Leaked,to me, means someone copied and pasted your journal to another person. I found zero evidence of that. Because shocker, that's not what happened. 

 

To be as anonymous as possible:

You wrote a journal about an action your character had made in the world. In said journal, you made no attempt whatsoever to conceal your identity. An immortal, in this case Anume, roleplayed a witness. It happened in a city, out in the open, and again you made no effort to conceal your identity (based on what I remember from when I last read that journal). So of course it was witnessed. The witness mob alerted another character to what was seen - nothing about your mental state, the circumstances surrounding the event, or anything else that was in your journal outside the physical activity itself. 

 

That is not leaking your journal. There was never a mention of your journal, only an act that you role-played out. Another shocker: journals are role-play. As such, there is immersion surrounding them. 

 

Say you write a journal about building a statue. Is it then leaking that journal for a statue to appear in the place you wrote that you built it? 

Say you wrote a journal about spreading rumors throughout town that one of your enemies has a secret life as a botanist. Is it leaking your journals for mobs to mention that rumor? 

 

Immersion is a thing. The actions you take ic have repurcussions ic. 

[Rensvert]

26 minutes ago, Lloth said:

We're bullying you? You're sitting here making us look evil. 

bullying me into revealing a character, yeah pretty much exactly what was happening. 

As for the rest of it, I've said it multiple times now but that is great that happens just it really should have been said that is possible and not have said over and over again that they are private. like what was done here.

  

23 hours ago, Lloth said:

We do not make journals public unless specifically asked to by the player who wrote it. Journals ARE private. Basically like diaries. 

 

As I also said earlier it is possible you misunderstood what I meant by leak, if that happened than I for sure take some of the blame for not clearing stating that, but yeah really any information in the journal not being private, regardless of how much of it is "leaked" is still a leak. Now that the staff admits that they do that though its a win for the player base.

[Rensvert]

Deleted 

[Erelei]

10 hours ago, Rensvert said:

I was very vocal with this to lloth. If you care, you can ask him for the supplied information. If you want to know how it affected my character I will gladly discuss it in PMs on discord or here, but as I said to you and other immortals I did not reveal and do not plan on it, so you are welcome to stop bullying me in an attempt to get me to do so.

Responses like these infuriate me. Make a big deal about something that makes us look like bad guys and refuse to explain it to the masses (except to display all the negatives). 
 

From this point forward though - if you don’t want to have your journals affect you in any way, don’t write them. 

[Nopesalot]

1 hour ago, Erelei said:

Responses like these infuriate me. Make a big deal about something that makes us look like bad guys and refuse to explain it to the masses (except to display all the negatives). 
 

From this point forward though - if you don’t want to have your journals affect you in any way, don’t write them. 

To be fair it did sound like he said he would talk to you in PM's and he did not want to reveal his character, I feel like the staff should respect that.

[Rensvert]

3 hours ago, Erelei said:

Responses like these infuriate me. Make a big deal about something that makes us look like bad guys and refuse to explain it to the masses (except to display all the negatives). 
 

From this point forward though - if you don’t want to have your journals affect you in any way, don’t write them. 

I've said this a bunch as well, but now that the staff admits journals arent private, and the playerbase can realize that and know that going into their journals all is good. As for me writing journals I havent wrote anything I wasnt fine with the staff leaking since that journal in question. 

And if you think that this somehow makes you guys look like the bad guys you clearly did not read discord or see the posts that immortals have removed from here. Or even read this whole thread. Trust me no one is on my side here, which is pretty obvious from not just this thread but also discord. 

Lastly though, IF you actually care about how it ruined a character, feel free to reach out to me I've got no problems discussing it.

[Erelei]

Already aware of the situation. No one else, however, is. Since I value your right to keep the privacy of your characters, I will not explain the situation in an attempt for everyone else to understand just how dumb I find the whole ordeal. 

It's fine. I'm done discussing it.

[Dale]

I think that this post has done nothing but confuse half the pbase and if you don't know the situation it looks super negative.  

 

In all honesty I would have LOVED for this EXACT situation to happen to one of my characters.  If I write a journal and it becomes CANNON IG then I'm throwing a party at my house and bragging about it for years.  That being said please let's lock or delete this thread.  It serves NO purpose.

[Archbishop Monk]

19 hours ago, Erelei said:

If you don’t want your journals to be used to enhance the role play of your character and those around you, don’t write a journal. 
 

it’s that simple. IMMs should be considered omniscient, and while an immortal’s character may not have interacted with you, they can (and likely will) use your journals to immerse your character and your characters friends and enemies into your world. 

While I have no trouble with RP consequences for what you did, I've had the same happen many a time.  I RP doing something in secret which gets blown out of proportion.  Harasin, my Savant Lich, poisoning the waters of Val Miran only to nearly start a war with the Tribunal is one example.  Some times it enhances RP and other times it annoys the living hell out of you.  But, I'd rather have the journals and be able to choose what I put in them rather than have no way to let anyone know how Rp events have shaped and changed my character.  Imms are NOT on all the time.  They miss so much RP that without journals they cannot track every single character.

If you RP'd something in game and then wrote a journal about it.  I'd bet if an Imm saw you doing it live you would have had a reaction right then.  I consider things I do in my journal as afterthoughts to what I did IC.

[Trick]

9 minutes ago, Archbishop Monk said:

While I have no trouble with RP consequences for what you did, I've had the same happen many a time.  I RP doing something in secret which gets blown out of proportion.  Harasin, my Savant Lich, poisoning the waters of Val Miran only to nearly start a war with the Tribunal is one example.  Some times it enhances RP and other times it annoys the living hell out of you.

Look at what came of that incident though. 

A LOT of fantastic RP came from that moment for me as Belderon. It lead to several journals and an emotional story of Winston(my blood guard) losing his daughter Elizabeth to that poison. Several other people became involved and your secret journal ended up being one of the best times I've had playing this game. 

 

This game isn't meant to be played in secret. Yes, there are some journals that shouldn't be shared, like Killian's, but then there are some that really become something in the world of Aabahran and for others to experience..

The IMMs read hundreds of journals that are probably just blocks of nothing because someone wants enough RP to get the necklace, but sometimes they can take a journal and really make it into something, furthering the immersion you and your character has with the game.

 

 

[Archbishop Monk]

1 hour ago, Trick said:

Look at what came of that incident though. 

A LOT of fantastic RP came from that moment for me as Belderon. It lead to several journals and an emotional story of Winston(my blood guard) losing his daughter Elizabeth to that poison. Several other people became involved and your secret journal ended up being one of the best times I've had playing this game. 

 

This game isn't meant to be played in secret. Yes, there are some journals that shouldn't be shared, like Killian's, but then there are some that really become something in the world of Aabahran and for others to experience..

The IMMs read hundreds of journals that are probably just blocks of nothing because someone wants enough RP to get the necklace, but sometimes they can take a journal and really make it into something, furthering the immersion you and your character has with the game.

 

 

I'm not at all complaining about it.  And yes, I did watch all that became of my ritual and experiments.  But, I mention it for good reasoning, Harasin got little RP out of it in comparison to Belderon.  Now, I am one of the last people to complain about RP points or even Rp.  I mainly just enjoy the ride.  But, pointing at what the others were saying.  It is fair, there is nothing wrong with it.  But, it is sometimes annoying when you watch someone else take off with what you started as RP and excludes you.  Sometimes, the only involvement you can have is somewhat PK focused when you really wanted to do something else.

[tassinvegeta]

I can see where he's coming from. The choice of what came of it might've been good for many but it could've been at his expense. The act could've enraged the jerk player or that op qclass you don't have an answer for that's just looking for a reason to murder you and ruin your day. What if you're the one bountying the whole world then suddenly the pb finds out. I know this thing blew up but maybe he's right in that a disclaimer should be posted maybe under journal help files that this could happen. Now that I know, I'm sure to be much more careful with the content I write. 

I've always felt like help note and help journal should be two separate help files. And now with two separate sets of standard and expectations.

[egreir]

I think we're all focusing too much on what happened as a result from the journal...when his whole point was, he didn't know it COULD happen.  I think 90% of us were under the impression our journals were strictly between us and the IMMs.   regardless of who thinks we should naturally assume things done in our journals as actual actions could have consequences that include people not privy to our journals. 

 

Whether or not we agree with what was done from the journal or not, that hasn't been the point from everything I've seen and read.   It should have been made aware to everyone that if you write about something in your journals, it will be at the IMMs discretion to introduce those actions/concepts/etc to the rest of the world.  Sure, that makes sense and that's all well and good, but I think what Rensvert has been saying here is that he, along with many others, did not know that was even a possibility.

 

Just my 2c

[Izzzzy]

24 minutes ago, Archbishop Monk said:

And yes, I did watch all that became of my ritual and experiments.  But, I mention it for good reasoning, Harasin got little RP out of it in comparison to Belderon. 

So this is something that is a little annoying from me.  You write a journal and you poison the fountain.  Which is Awesome.  But the fact that you thought that oh it would just be funny.  People would drink from the fountain get poisoned and the Tribunal would Not "Investigate"?  I think if you didn't get any Rp after this is because you didn't continue with it, and FUCK YEAH war would have been on.  Just my 2 cents.

 

I was so disappointed when a Giant Tower fell into Val Miran and all we got was Oh pay a tithe for repairs.  Just saying.  Everyone says they love the RolePlay in this game, but the way I am starting to see it is they like the Story TELLING in this game.  Everyone assumes their stories do not have CONSEQUENCES.  Still Love ya @Archbishop Monk

 

[Ulmusdorn]

After reading this all I've just managed to abstain from ripping my own eyes out. 

Of course journals are private - unless you want your journals to affect the real world. They are a mechanism for RP when you might not have the audience/immortal presence you need to achieve something you would like to achieve as a character. I still vote for my original solution after all this  

[Ulmusdorn]

53 minutes ago, Iznazti said:

I was so disappointed when a Giant Tower fell into Val Miran and all we got was Oh pay a tithe for repairs.  Just saying.  Everyone says they love the RolePlay in this game, but the way I am starting to see it is they like the Story TELLING in this game.  Everyone assumes their stories do not have CONSEQUENCES. 

 

That wasn't by far the only payment Savant made. Just cause you aren't privy to everything doesn't mean it didn't happen

 

[Nopesalot]

I thought I understood journals but now am more confused, can someone explain them to me and then stop confusing me?

[EllaThePuppy]

3 minutes ago, Nopesalot said:

I thought I understood journals but now am more confused, can someone explain them to me and then stop confusing me?

Journals are RP.

Sometimes RP is public, sometimes RP is private.

Sometimes RP affects your character's life (through cabals, clans, vendettas, enemies, friends, etc.), sometimes it is simply character development.

Sometimes RP is awarded RP points, sometimes it is not.

Sometimes an IMM will engage with your RP and help you to further it, sometimes they won't.

RP always has consequences, big or small, negative or positive. If you RP something that may be controversial, plan for the worst, hope for the best. And then don't be disappointed when "the worst" happens.

Journals. Are. RP.

[Seravin]

I would say based on some reactions here, a lot of players didn’t realize that journals could and be change the world. I had no idea for the longest time. Always considered it a sort of creative writing and character building exercise. It never happened to me until I heard about it from others. If it’s not new, it’s uncommon. That is where I think a lot of frustration is coming from. 

[Archbishop Monk]

1 hour ago, Iznazti said:

So this is something that is a little annoying from me.  You write a journal and you poison the fountain.  Which is Awesome.  But the fact that you thought that oh it would just be funny.  People would drink from the fountain get poisoned and the Tribunal would Not "Investigate"?  I think if you didn't get any Rp after this is because you didn't continue with it, and FUCK YEAH war would have been on.  Just my 2 cents.

 

I was so disappointed when a Giant Tower fell into Val Miran and all we got was Oh pay a tithe for repairs.  Just saying.  Everyone says they love the RolePlay in this game, but the way I am starting to see it is they like the Story TELLING in this game.  Everyone assumes their stories do not have CONSEQUENCES.  Still Love ya @Archbishop Monk

 

Lol, as strong as your RP is, it does not mean you can always get involved.  Keep in mind that a strong center to this game is PK.  If you don't have the PK to back it up in most cases you don't get far with RP simply because you die long before you could finish it.  For instance.  I RP'd my ass off to drop the Savant Tower in the dump in the first place.  I Rp'd my ass off to convince the Watcher to join me against the Chosen of Anume.  Now, journal wise I kept a record of what I was doing and why.  Very few people knew how to take Belsoqse because not a single person picked up on the fact that Belsoqse was not one, but two people.  Now, had that got out........it would have made things VERY difficult to RP as Belsoqse was also incredibly paranoid of ALL.

Now, what @Ulmusdorn pointed out was true.  Put an event in a journal, expect it to have IC consequences if the Imms see fit to run with it.  I see no problem with that.  But, keep in mind this is a social RP game.  I am NOT suggesting playing single player.  But, that does not stop it from being frustrating when you wanted to try something and it get's 'blocked', interrupted or flat out denied.  Is it RP?  Yes.  So is dying and losing all your armor and coming back as a ghost.  Is dying fun for most people?  I see people going to GREAT lengths to avoid it because it is frustrating.  You can make absolutely nothing happen in this game without getting someone else to agree with you on it.  Which is why I said it is annoying, not unfair, not unjust and it is just right.  But, that does not stop it from being incredibly annoying and for some frustrating.