Izzzzy Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 16 minutes ago, Archbishop Monk said: If you don't have the PK to back it up in most cases you don't get far with RP simply because you die long before you could finish it. For instance. I RP'd my ass off to drop the Savant Tower in the dump in the first place. I Rp'd my ass off to convince the Watcher to join me against the Chosen of Anume I agree you need the PK to back it up 100% I tend to not RP until I know I can PK effectively. Don't want to waste hours writing only to get my ass handed to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmusdorn Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Seravin said: I would say based on some reactions here, a lot of players didn’t realize that journals could and be change the world. I had no idea for the longest time. Always considered it a sort of creative writing and character building exercise. It never happened to me until I heard about it from others. If it’s not new, it’s uncommon. That is where I think a lot of frustration is coming from. Actually its very very common. 13 minutes ago, Iznazti said: I agree you need the PK to back it up 100% I tend to not RP until I know I can PK effectively. Don't want to waste hours writing only to get my ass handed to me. False - Killian killed barely anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzzzy Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Ulmusdorn said: False - Killian killed barely anyone Well he played a Merchant and didn't really have to worry about people trying to kill him. Huge difference here Ulms. If I am going to roll play a bad ass and am getting my ass handed to me, that is going to discourage me from RPing. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying for me personally. I had the pleasure of Rping with Killian and I can tell you that his RP was very good. Lets no compare apples to oranges though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop Monk Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said: False - Killian killed barely anyone. Notice you have a choice of two specific cabals that afford you some semblance of protection from PK. Besides, surviving PK is 50% of Pk. I doubt Killian died to anyone either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmusdorn Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 Aethril? Nexus Leader Necro - Didn't really kill anyone. I can keep going. The notion that RP is only 'successful' because of being backed up by solid PK is not correct. It helps, but it is not mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop Monk Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 I pretty much explained myself on that. If you lose 61 lives in a few days, it won't matter what your RP was, your character is done and over unless the Imms give you another chance. I'm not saying you can't RP without PK. Hell, most of my characters do just fine without stellar PK records. But, the fact remains, if I did not survive, it wouldn't matter because they would be dead long before most of the time it takes to get a RP plot going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmusdorn Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Archbishop Monk said: I pretty much explained myself on that. If you lose 61 lives in a few days, it won't matter what your RP was, your character is done and over unless the Imms give you another chance. I'm not saying you can't RP without PK. Hell, most of my characters do just fine without stellar PK records. But, the fact remains, if I did not survive, it wouldn't matter because they would be dead long before most of the time it takes to get a RP plot going. I can't disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllaThePuppy Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Archbishop Monk said: I pretty much explained myself on that. If you lose 61 lives in a few days, it won't matter what your RP was, your character is done and over unless the Imms give you another chance. I'm not saying you can't RP without PK. Hell, most of my characters do just fine without stellar PK records. But, the fact remains, if I did not survive, it wouldn't matter because they would be dead long before most of the time it takes to get a RP plot going. There's a hole in this argument. Cabals are PK oriented (with one and a half exceptions - Herald and Merchant). If you want to RP without being able to PK, don't join a cabal or choose a cabal that suits you better. Can you be the badass Nexus Archfiend that blows a hole in the Knight castle without reprisal if you don't have the PK to back it up? No, probably not. Can you be the Knight Regent that brings peace to the lands and stops wars with an iron fist without the PK to back it up? No, probably not. But can you accomplish a lot of really cool shit that either doesn't involve being a wicked cool badass OR being a wicked cool badass in a way that doesn't step on people's toes quite so hard? Yeah, that you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop Monk Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 3 hours ago, EllaThePuppy said: There's a hole in this argument. Cabals are PK oriented (with one and a half exceptions - Herald and Merchant). If you want to RP without being able to PK, don't join a cabal or choose a cabal that suits you better. This statement right here is just untrue. If you want to RP without being able to Pk? Since when is it that you determine when you PK or not? This is a dangerous land and others can and will attack you because THEY want to regardless of what cabal you join. Earllryl got attacked well before I was even decked. As a matter of fact, the very reason I started gathering equipment is because a certain necromancer as well as others decided to come after me time and time again. My point is not to RP without Pk or to Pk without RP. I can list out many of my characters which might suprise a few and more than 60% of them don't actively PK unless bothered. Why? Because I enjoy spinning a story far more than I do typing cast spell 'whoever' or murder EllaThePuppy. Back to the original point, there are consequences in game for your RP. I have no problem with Imms using journals to further RP. It has happened and should happen. Players should know that if you RP anything in game, anyone else can run with it and use it for what they have in mind, and that includes Imms. The only thing I wanted to acknowledge is that it can be incredibly frustrating to attempt to get something done only to have it either backfire or cut you out of being involved. I'm not saying it SHOULD change. I am acknowledging the frustration is EQUAL if not greater to that of dying and being full looted. How many people stick around after making tons of enemies and then losing those key items that made them strong? How many people have quit because they tried to do something new and it didn't work because someone worked against it. It is the harshness of reality in these lands. It is the nature of the game. It's not the Imms fault or players fault. It just is frustrating. There is a solution to this already put in game. Rp points. You can play significant parts in RP plots by 'paying' RP points. You can start a whole new plot with RP points. Just don't expect it to happen immediately. With that in mind, it is part of the reason journals are significant. I don't really use the journals to farm RP points. I get that mainly through interaction with people in game. But, I do write the journals to give the Imms who may or may not have been snooping some insight on a change my characters make. Now, if it gets used because of an action I made that I talk about in a journal, no problem. But, I have the right to be frustrated if whatever happened was great and I didn't get to play any part in it when I WANTED to play a part. Why? No one let me know the affects until well after. @Trick Did you know I didn't find out about Winston and what happened until I was RPing with you on another character? Nobody told me or I would have RP'd with it more on Harasin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Just now, Archbishop Monk said: @Trick Did you know I didn't find out about Winston and what happened until I was RPing with you on another character? Nobody told me or I would have RP'd with it more on Harasin. If I remember correctly, you never actually took credit for the poison or you didn't until WAY later. I think I was operating on a hunch, but I don't really remember. I'd have to look at some journals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarcon Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Lol, this thread was literally like a rollercoaster. Everything was great and on topic, then suddenly it took a left turn because someone was MAD that their journal, which is designed to help with emersion got some actual traction and affected some real IC situation, which I would have loved, but he didn't. Then two pages of complaining about the situation and crying about being bullied, which, didn't happen at all. I feel like I just witnessed a serious award-winning drama TV show lol. All in all, if the IMM's ever decide to take one of your journals and act on it or provide depth, take that as a compliment and pat yourself on the back for actually helping others get more emerged in your storyline. I write journals to dive deeper into a character, but there is always a tiny bit of hope, wishing immortals will read something and decide to engage or take part somehow, that's a win win win win if you ask me. Anyone that gets upset that an immortal decides to add value to your storyline and make it into something, needs to start playing another game. Now, with that being said, I mentioned that allowing journals to be shared might help others jump in on your RP, but after hearing everyone's argument, I think your right, that might be something better left private. So, then I think maybe allowing others to see your HISTORY, or some type of RP cliff notes that you can share publicly, so then again, others can jump in on your PR if they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 6 hours ago, sarcon said: Lol, this thread was literally like a rollercoaster. Everything was great and on topic, then suddenly it took a left turn because someone was MAD that their journal, which is designed to help with emersion got some actual traction and affected some real IC situation, which me personally would have absolutely loved, but he didn't. Then two pages of complaining about the situation and crying about being bullied, which, didn't happen at all. Literally, I feel like I just witnessed a serious award winning drama TV show lol. All in all, if the IMM's ever decide to take one of your journals and actually act on it or provide depth, take that as a complement and pat yourself on the back for actually helping others get more emerged in your storyline. I write journals to dive deeper into a character, but there is always a tiny bit of hope, wishing immortals will read something and decide to engage or take part some how, that's a win win win win if you ask me. Anyone that gets upset that an immortal decides to add value to your storyline and make it into something, needs to start playing another game. Now, with that being said, I mentioned that allowing journals to be shared might help others jump in on your RP, but after hearing everyones argument, I think your right, that might be something better left private. So, then I think maybe allowing others to see your HISTORY, or some type of RP cliff notes that you can share publicly, so then again, others can jump in on your PR if they want. With that spelling, no. You should probably stick to the PK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmm Coffee Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Can someone please post a PK log or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop Monk Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 14 hours ago, Trick said: If I remember correctly, you never actually took credit for the poison or you didn't until WAY later. I think I was operating on a hunch, but I don't really remember. I'd have to look at some journals. You were right, I never took credit for it and offered to 'help' to fix it. But, that only came after I got a note to Savant about a declaration of war if we didn't fix the problem that 'someone' in the Savant caused. But, I never knew all that happened to Winston because the note didn't say as much. I found out through a druid I had that RP'd with Belderon. Then, I was like 'damnit' I missed out on a ton of fun and would have rp'd differently on Harasin had I known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop Monk Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 As far as letting others in on your RP goes, I still stand by what I said. You are in an RP world and everything you do has consequences. If you write a journal, it can be used later as a reference by any immortal. You may be upset about it all you want, and rightly so. But, YOU wrote the journal. You performed the actions in the journal. You RP'd it. You can be upset about it because something you did had an affect you didn't want it to have. But, in the end, that is the world here and it is up to each of us to accept it. If you wanted it private, then RP sealing the note with a magical seal behind fifteen layers of enchantments that would obliterate anyone who tried to open it, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeva Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 20 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said: After reading this all I've just managed to abstain from ripping my own eyes out. seriously same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nopesalot Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 20 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said: After reading this all I've just managed to abstain from ripping my own eyes out. 54 minutes ago, Aeva said: seriously same I think this just is unnecessary, it does nothing but have an intention to make others feel bad or attacked. This entire thing confused me, but it sounded like there was not much if any clarification on this subject before this happened and now there is. Its too bad it got to the point that it did but if clarification come from this and it now everyone understands what can happen going forward then its not a bad thing that it happened. yeah it could have been handled better by both sides of the argument, but clarification is a good thing. Intentionally degrading or off putting players or immortals is not cool. We should try to have a better community than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 ^ this guy gets it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted March 2, 2020 Implementor Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Personally, I do not think anything was done wrong. Journals have often been used to drive plots (Val Miran plot), they are a rp tool, just as notes and rp logs. It comes down to a misunderstanding of "journals are private". Immortal understanding: no, they will not be forwarded (unless you want it, or you're gone and post it yourself or you're in the hall of fame); this does not mean that deeds in them will not have rp consequences Rens understanding: I can do anything in a journal and it will not have any ic consequences no matter what. This was indeed a misconsception and has been clarified a lot longer and more in depth than necessary. Rp and immersion do not stop suddenly. It would be really weird if major events happen and nobody notices. Just imagine Val suddenly been overrun by ferals, fighting in the streets and nobody knowing why. It does not make sense. Edit: also, in Rens situation the staff stood before a choice. Outcast, possible denial or react, involve others and give him a chance to rp it out. We chose the later. I think it is extremely astonishing anyone would ever complain about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmusdorn Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Anume said: Edit: also, in Rens situation the staff stood before a choice. Outcast, possible denial or react, involve others and give him a chance to rp it out. We chose the later. I think it is extremely astonishing anyone would ever complain about that. It also led to some pretty damn cool RP imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzzzy Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 I Know who Rens was playing, and I think it did nothing but bring about an awesome story to the mud. I personally got alot out of it as a player. It's unfortunate that You don't feel the same way @Rensvert. I personally only write journals when I want cool shit to happen. I don't farm RP points, they just come. Like we as people don't watch porn and not finish if ya know what I mean. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seravin Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 I’m glad we’re just ignoring someone’s wishes to not name their char and giving tons of hints about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzzzy Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Seravin said: I’m glad we’re just ignoring someone’s wishes to not name their char and giving tons of hints about it. I haven't seen anyone give away anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rensvert Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 As for the revealing of my character there for sure has been enough said between here and in discord by the staff that anyone paying close attention would have deduced the character in question, which is upsetting but most of it was thankfully removed rather quickly. Still more than I would like is visible but there is little I can do about that. As for why I stopped responding here and I am only going to say this once before leaving this thread once and for all is that too many players have either been confused by this or worried that this will have a negative effect on how immortals view their journals, so I stopped because that was never what I wanted to have happen. I think the journal system as a whole is good, I think it needed more clarification which is what happened so that is a good thing. And I like to think that the staff will not negatively view anyone's (except possibly my own) journals because of my stance on this matter, There is quite a bit of partial or just flat out wrong information in here now though from both myself and the immortals that I do recommend caution to anyone reading it going forward. As for my thoughts/understanding on it; Anume is about 40-60% correct or so As for the staff or at least Anume and some of the players not understanding or being surprised that I was upset with the situation all I can say is it is really easy to say that, but a very different circumstance when you are living it, and that it is very possible in fact rather likely that I played this game for vastly different reasons than most other players, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted March 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 As the OP, I politely ask for this thread to be locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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