In FL we Trust

[Celerity]

I decided to put this in a new thread as it didn't really belong in the PK log. The topic is complicated and full of emotions. It should be expanded upon and not simply dismissed out of hand.

Re:  @Izzzzy and @Archbishop Monk 's original short discussion is in this pk log, but they are quoted later in this post.

As with most things, the real situation is far more nuanced.

The game is effectively held in trust with the top staff (Anume) as conservator. The game was entrusted to her with the understanding that she would continue to keep the game operational to the best of her ability as the previous conservator was no longer able to do so. The game has thus been handed down all the way back to Virigoth. The game is still around, so she has absolutely fulfilled her most important basic obligation.

In the real world, conservators answer to a higher authority, usually a judge. If somebody believes that the asset (the game) is being held in bad faith, they can appeal to this judge who will then make a determination if the conservator is acting in the best interest of the asset or not. Since this is not a legal trust, the conservator has no such outside obligation to act in good faith. The conservator judges the conservator. If she wanted, Anume could shut down the game, mismanage or otherwise destroy the asset for any reason. It would be in very bad faith, but she has that power without recourse. This is what she can do, not necessarily what she is doing. Each person can subjectively decide on their own if her management is for better or worse for the game. No matter your opinion on that, this is a normal, albeit immature and weak state of ownership. Success or failure is almost completely dependent on the actions of one person.

Every staff member is a volunteer to help administer the asset. They are not compensated for their services. However, not being compensated does not free them from their willful obligation to administer the asset in good faith. Again, judgment of this falls back to Anume who is able to make all determinations about if the staff is acting in the best interest of the game or not.

Why did I explain all of that? Because we need to understand the above in order to examine both Izzzzy's and Archbishop Monk's statements.

For reference:

On 4/11/2020 at 8:45 PM, Izzzzy said:

There are so many things that are imbalanced about the game.  The real problem is.  "Send logs."

When I play call of duty I don't need to send logs.  That's not my job.  I play the game.  It's up to the developers to fix the problems when we post our concerns in the forums. 

In this game it's send logs.  

No I'm a player you're an immortal.  You watch the game and police it.  I just play the game.  Don't ask me to send logs that's your job not mine.  I'm a player, not a moderator.  I didn't come to play your game to do work.  I came to play a game.  Make it fair, or I won't play your game.  It really is that simple.  If the coder doesn't have time, get a new coder.  If the builder isn't building get a new builder.  Why should I ask wtf is everyone doing?  Do we need 16 immortals when 4 people are playing????  Send logs.  No.. I'll play a fair game.  Be responsible for your job.  We don't need 16 immortals when 6 people play.  Send logs = lazy staff.  Yeah I called some of you out.  The immortals that read logs/journals are the only immortals that are doing something.  Everyone else just sits there blaming it on the lack of a coder.

Screw that.

Izzzzy's post can be boiled down to three points:

1. The staff to player ratio is very high, so monitoring balance should be quick and easy.
2. If the staff cannot maintain their obligations, they should be replaced. He strongly implies they are not fulfilling their obligations.
3. If a player is not happy, they will vote with their feet.

In truth, he is not wrong about any of his points. That said, he doesn't exactly hit the mark either.

Quote

The staff to player ratio is very high, so monitoring balance should be quick and easy.

Many staff don't necessarily understand the balance points in question and so the effective number of staff is much smaller, maybe one or two people. Incidentally, this is also the number of staff who can make the changes, although they might not be the same people. So changes hinge on a couple key people being active and interested in the change. We all know how rare this in practice.

Furthermore, the staff lacks the vision, effort, ability and/or confidence in order to actively make balance decisions so we see a lot of 'by committee' and 'whoever is complaining the loudest'-type changes. This is very slow, often ineffective and generally haphazard. They often result in changes that miss the target and make people unhappy, thus creating resistance and resentment on both sides. More on this later.

Finally, staff may not be able to implement the changes they want due to 'coder limitations'. This is impossible to know without the staff saying it straight out, but will always be suspected since staff keep almost everything private. Staff attempts to do things like character generation and a new cabal via OLC progs is a very bad sign.

On the building side, I do not understand why the progress has been abysmal for so long. Building is generally quick and easy. There are rumors of major project management issues. Without much implementation and without explanation, everything is speculation. You can make your own  judgment on what you see happening irregardless of what people say is happening.

Quote

If the staff cannot maintain their obligations, they should be replaced. He strongly implies they are not fulfilling their obligations.

It is true that staff should be replaced if they are not doing a good job, but who is to judge that? The difficulty is knowing when somebody isn't doing a good job. Only Anume has all the information and can make that decision, so the answer boils down to: only one person's opinion on this topic matters. Then, even if the staff should be replaced, there is the second question of can they be replaced. This is where the management might respond with statements about trust, loyalty, or whatever criteria they want for the particular role. If the staff can't find somebody to do the job, they have the option of having the role left unfulfilled or reassessing their criteria. Again, this boils down to Anume's judgment on both counts, even regarding her own position.

Regarding coders, in the past, Anume adapted her criteria when faced with the prospect of no coder at all, thus allowing Erelei into the position. In our current position, Erelei hasn't retired and based on Discord chats, FL is not looking for a coder. We are unlikely to see much change in coding prospects unless Erelei becomes more active or retires.

This brings us to the next point:

Quote

If a player is not happy, they will vote with their feet.

Yes they will vote, but how many have voted by leaving? The true numbers are unknown, but the playerbase is slowly, but steadily, declining. We know this because forum activity has dropped off sharply. In line with this, the Discord's player count and activity has also dropped. The cabal activity numbers are also notably low. The drop could be due to any combination of reasons, but ultimate responsibility for maintaining a playerbase does lie with the staff.  The player count is the surest, and probably only, current way to judge management's competency. Deserved or not, it is what the state of the game is.

One of the main contributing factors behind the sentiment of staff 'laziness' or inactivity is that players cannot see what staff are doing. Change logs are very rare (yearly) and only contain a few lines. This is the only real evidence that players can look to and so they judged based on that, for better or worse.

If the staff wants players to think they are more active, they should show their activity publicly. Erelei's mention of Github is the best way to do this as there would be absolutely no question of what was changed and when. I really hope they implement that. Git would remove a particularly sticky thorn from the players and staff's sides both. It would also give another barometer to gauge the game's health rather than just the player count.

As long as the staff maintains the pre-2000's 'privacy curtain' with invisible changes and an imm-only discussion board, players will continue to doubt their level of activity. Faith alone does not maintain a community of players.

Only player enforcement actions need to be hidden from the community. Anything regarding balance or development has no danger if known. I've heard the staff mention not wanting to set expectations high with giving out plans. All the more reason to share as the expectations will be exactly in line between the staff and players if they work with the same information.

The only time you would want to hide this activity from players is when the activity level is too damaging. In such of a situation, staff would want maintain plausible deniability and be able to say 'everything is behind the curtain'. As a result, reliance on the curtain doesn't inspire much confidence and is in fact, quite damaging.

In the end, polices are set by Anume and code changes by Erelei. Players can individually make their decision whether or not they are satisfied, just as the management decides if the player loss is acceptable or not.

Now let's look at Archbishop Monk's post:

On 4/12/2020 at 1:27 PM, Archbishop Monk said:

The one thing I will point out is the Imms do NOT have a job.  They actually provide all of us a service.  They don't get paid, they don't get benefits.  They are providing a free service that we get to enjoy for free.  To hold them to the standards of someone who gets a benefit is flat out irrational.   They are not developers that can pocket money for their services.  They have jobs, lives and also want to play the game.  But they dedicate hours of their time for nothing.

You may not like their choices and choose not to play.  That's fine and that is your choice and I'll defend your position in that.  There are also problems in the game, but it is up to us as a community to fix them.  This is why the logs are our responsibility.  Like everything else in the game, if you don't put in an effort, expecting someone else to do it for you gets you next to nothing.

As broken down:

1. Management does this as a free service and thus their obligation to work effectively is very low.
2. Management service hours are for nothing.
3. Players who disagree with management may leave.
4. The community is responsible for fixing problems.
5. Without effort, expecting someone else to do it for you gets nothing done.

I can agree with most of Archbishop Monk's sentiment, but not many of the points as presented. Archbishop Monk's argument is a common one and it is worth looking at the points individually:

Quote

Management does this as a free service and thus their obligation to work effectively is very low.

Service work obligation is not set by compensation. The only thing that sets the obligation for work is maintaining the playerbase. If you can do that with no work, a lot of work, no compensation or a lot of compensation doesn't matter. All that matters is that the game is maintained. As pointed out earlier, the only way to judge the obligation is by the response of the playerbase, mostly by the count of it, but ignore other feedback at your own loss.  Maintenance of the game, mostly measurable through player count, is the bottom line here. Money has nothing to do with it either way. The value returned is inherit in the service performed, as in any labor of love. Therefore I disagree with linking money to the discussion at all.

Being a free service doesn't absolve the staff of obligation. Since the only real recourse for players in response to management failings is not playing, it is very hard to tell if the obligation is being truly being met or not. The staff are volunteers, but don't discount that they also volunteered to do the service and should act in good faith because of that.

Quote

Management service hours are for nothing.

I vehemently disagree. The management holds the game in trust, that is, they hold the accumulated effort that all other people, staff and players, have put into the game. The volume of that investment is truly staggering.  Staff work to ensure that all of that effort is not wasted. This is certainly not 'nothing'. It is very valuable and important. This is why people care whether or not the game is managed well. To say otherwise is an insult to all those who have invested (significant!) portions of their lives into this project.

People who think that the code is the valuable portion of the game are absolutely wrong. It is the history, the community. I could take the exact same code and start CelerityMUD and it would be valueless, lacking the community. That is why we protect the community first and they are top priority.

Any staff who believes they work for nothing should immediately resign. Staff who see their service as 'work' will probably not be very effective as it is terrible 'work', being unpaid, nor do they understand that this is a labor of love and duty. As soon as you start thinking in terms of personal reward and benefit is when you've really lost the 'mantle of responsibility' to take good care of the game for the game. Again, this is all done in trust of all those have come before.

This is why I was disgusted when people like Behrens were asking for money for their labor. His lack of effectiveness proved he had never been a good faith conservator to begin with.

If the volunteer staff feel the work is not worth the effort, they are as free as players to vote with their feet and leave. That they choose not to means they continue to accept the obligation without monetary compensation. Not accepting the obligation, but also not leaving, is a terrible state that weakens the game for everyone. This is the feeling that Izzzzy was expressing and was missed by most.

Quote

Players who disagree with management may leave.

Already answered and everyone seems to agree. I would like to note that encouraging players to leave if they disagree is often very effective in them leaving.

Quote

The community is responsible for fixing problems.

The community is not ultimately responsible, but effectively they are making the decisions. The community picks up the slack so to speak. Without any real balance plan or organization, the staff passively reacts to loudly-squawking players for direction on balance. There are a few ways to squawk, being Discord, public, and prayer posts. Most players prefer to squawk publicly to drum up support whereas the staff wants it privately to suppress the same. A critical mass of support is often needed to obtain change, so players continue publicly despite staff instructions. It simply appears to works better. Again, the staff will never convince players otherwise with the privacy curtain up.

The staff has often responded to such squawks with badly thought-out reactive changes. The fear of making another bad call and further driving players away is one factor that paralyzes them now. Thus the call for logs so they have something to (privately) point to when they make a change. This works for some changes, but still isn't very effective since a problem must be painfully obvious to be visible in a log. This problem is the reason for a lot of staff/player resentment with each other as mentioned earlier.

If the game was intended to be fixed by the community, it would be open-source.

Quote

Without effort, expecting someone else to do it for you gets nothing done.

This is correct and goes both ways. If a player wants a change, they need to bring it up as it is unlikely the staff will do so by themselves due to their reactive balancing stance. The player has all the immediate incentive to see the change happen, after all.

However, remember it is also true for the staff.  The staff also need to put in effort or otherwise nothing gets done. At the end of the day, staff effort is far more important and meaningful and this is where Izzzzy's gripe is coming from.

So while I agree with both Izzzzy and Archbishop Monk, I think it was important to dig deeper. These issues are very important and should be examined thoroughly rather than a quick dismissal or agreement. The situation is not black and white at all.

[egreir]

As always you manage to take a controversial topic and boil it down very politely and to the point. Thank you.

[EllaThePuppy]

I confess to only having skimmed, and I'll return to read this more in detail later. However, I want to make the point that I think either you or I misinterpreted @Archbishop Monk's point regarding staff effort being "for nothing". My interpretation of this point is that staff effort is being offered for no compensation (aka "nothing"). Your interpretation of this point seems to be that staff effort serves no purpose (aka being worth "nothing"). While I can't say for certain that my interpretation is correct, given the context of AM's post (as optimistic and in defense of the staff), I thought it important to note that I think you may have misread the tone.

[Ulmusdorn]

@Celerity I want to make a couple of points and ask a couple of questions:

1. Being a former staff member of a mud - you understand that being on the staff is actually more restrictive in what you are able to do and what limitations who have on your 'play'. To be clearer, we are held to a higher standard then your typical plug and play player - so I really hate any notion that immortals get 'special treatment'. Its often the opposite to stop any rumors etc. - this is more of an aside than a point.

2. Let break this down into areas, and figure out what you think (as spokesperson in this regard and because you're effective in your communication) what areas you think require the most input. I've divided into three/four categories - what do we want to see? What effectively would we be looking at for a '6 months 2-do list'.

 

Code:

 

 

Build:

 

 

Community:

 

 

Immortals:

 

[Mali]

I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt. Objectively, these problems may be observed:

1. As Celerity noted, major project management issues

2. Lack of core competencies displayed for active development

As it concerns Izzzzy and Monk's arguments, I am much on the side of Izzzzy. It is pragmatic and direct and to the point. Monk's argument presupposes that the staff's work has value. However, if one does not agree or is not sure that the work has value, then we must consider Celerity's point that the staff's work is to be understood in terms of their role as protectorate... not just of the game in development but of the pbase. The state of things is self-evident.

To Ulmusdorn's point, I agree that staff should create a to-do list, but not on a 6 month timeline. Perhaps 2 week timeline. The product should involve all staff and should cover the scope of the four areas mentioned in addition to player recruitment and retention efforts. You could even apply Agile/Scrum/Waterfall or any of the tools you might need to create with a group based on consumer demand. 

You have total control of the design, workflow, and creative elements of delivery. 

Personally if I saw this effort in motion I would play in the sandbox some more, even if the outcomes and final product were not a 1:1 fit to what I wanted to see. Again, the issue isn't with one person, staff member, or coding aspect - it is the pace and visibility of development.

I did like the podcasts.

[EllaThePuppy]

32 minutes ago, Mali said:

I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt. Objectively, these problems may be observed:

1. As Celerity noted, major project management issues

2. Lack of core competencies displayed for active development

As it concerns Izzzzy and Monk's arguments, I am much on the side of Izzzzy. It is pragmatic and direct and to the point. Monk's argument presupposes that the staff's work has value. However, if one does not agree or is not sure that the work has value, then we must consider Celerity's point that the staff's work is to be understood in terms of their role as protectorate... not just of the game in development but of the pbase. The state of things is self-evident.

To Ulmusdorn's point, I agree that staff should create a to-do list, but not on a 6 month timeline. Perhaps 2 week timeline. The product should involve all staff and should cover the scope of the four areas mentioned in addition to player recruitment and retention efforts. You could even apply Agile/Scrum/Waterfall or any of the tools you might need to create with a group based on consumer demand. 

You have total control of the design, workflow, and creative elements of delivery. 

Personally if I saw this effort in motion I would play in the sandbox some more, even if the outcomes and final product were not a 1:1 fit to what I wanted to see. Again, the issue isn't with one person, staff member, or coding aspect - it is the pace and visibility of development.

I did like the podcasts.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts (or anyone's) on what could go on the two weeks drawing board that can and will actually be accomplished, versus what could go on the drawing board for three, six, and twelve months.

As a community member, I am always happy to help however I can. My core competencies are generalized marketing and strategic planning, and my MUD-specific skills are primarily OLC-related. I also have a sometimes excessive amount of free time and I'm happy to commit a substantial portion of it to a project. So I'm also more than happy to put my money where my mouth is if a consensus is reached and goals are set.

[Ulmusdorn]

1 hour ago, Mali said:

To Ulmusdorn's point, I agree that staff should create a to-do list, but not on a 6 month timeline. Perhaps 2 week timeline. The product should involve all staff and should cover the scope of the four areas mentioned in addition to player recruitment and retention efforts. You could even apply Agile/Scrum/Waterfall or any of the tools you might need to create with a group based on consumer demand. 

Well obviously some things can be compelted in an hour and some things take 6 months. Having a wide scope would let us identify what should be done and when - its all about setting reasonable expectations then meeting those expectations.

Also I would like to point out that the staff have very different skill sets. Some of us are great builders, brilliant coders or just there to make the RP environment of the mud more enjoyable. Understand what needs to be completed in 1 month/ 6 month/ 1 year period to make the PBASE happy will also let us assign tasks to the staff best suited to complete them.

 

All I'm encouraging is for people to discuss on what positive changes should we be looking to make in the next little while - then we can look at the 'how'. I'm attempting to look to the future rather than continue to seek to place blame/give props for the failings and successes of the past. With a declining pbase we can't really languish in the past - we need to look to how to make the future successful.

 

[egreir]

We’ve been doing this song and dance for years. We’ve asked for a public “to do” list or development roadmap many, many times. It’s a tired exercise.  I don’t doubt we all love this game and want it to succeed but there are certain people in certain positions that remain blind to what the needs of this game truly are and are too concerned with their own ego and beliefs to admit fault or loosen their grip to allow for real change. Anyone can call me a crackpot or salty or whatever else they want. Doesn’t change the fact that this game has been dying a slow death for a decade with little to no hope of changing. Yet the same people keep saying the same things. When will it finally be loud enough to hear? 
 

Never. And that’s the sad part.  FL is finished, the sooner we recognize that, the easier it will be to move on. 

[Mali]

I'm personally more interested in the process than the product. Before you even get started you need your team in place and you have to have an understanding of their skills, what is missing from the team skillset, and daily/scheduled expectations. You aren't going to get far if you are missing a key skillset, so the very nature of the process design requires you to assess and possibly reorient who you are working with for the project. But let's assume the staff is fully equipped and ready to go in good faith.

I may not be representative of your market but I'd love to see it start here:

 

[Ulmusdorn]

5 minutes ago, egreir said:

We’ve been doing this song and dance for years. We’ve asked for a public “to do” list or development roadmap many, many times. It’s a tired exercise.  I don’t doubt we all love this game and want it to succeed but there are certain people in certain positions that remain blind to what the needs of this game truly are and are too concerned with their own ego and beliefs to admit fault or loosen their grip to allow for real change. Anyone can call me a crackpot or salty or whatever else they want. Doesn’t change the fact that this game has been dying a slow death for a decade with little to no hope of changing. Yet the same people keep saying the same things. When will it finally be loud enough to hear? 
 

Never. And that’s the sad part.  FL is finished, the sooner we recognize that, the easier it will be to move on. 

 

I'm admitting that things need to change - you've just shat on my idea of a road map - (I'm a planner so I can't do anything with a plan) - and not offered one positive suggestion of what needs to happen. 

It could be anything:

1. 1000 lines of code by the end of the year
2. Rework of 3 classes in this order: Paladins, Thieves, Monks
3. Rebalance of these 3 classes in this order: Psi's, Liches, Battlemages
4. Release of 2 new areas including quests by the end of the year.
5. Retiring of 3 old immortal staff to allow 3 new immortal staff to try it out
 

Whatever.

Everyone recognizes a problem - all I'm trying to find out is that as a consensus, what would actually make us happy? Do we want global events or do we want balances and areas?

[egreir]

I appreciate you and what you’re doing Ulms. I’m just beyond jaded at this point I guess.  

End game content and balance/class reworks should be at the top.  There.  That’s my 2 cents lol 

[EllaThePuppy]

4 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

 

I'm admitting that things need to change - you've just shat on my idea of a road map - (I'm a planner so I can't do anything with a plan) - and not offered one positive suggestion of what needs to happen. 

It could be anything:

1. 1000 lines of code by the end of the year
2. Rework of 3 classes in this order: Paladins, Thieves, Monks
3. Rebalance of these 3 classes in this order: Psi's, Liches, Battlemages
4. Release of 2 new areas including quests by the end of the year.
5. Retiring of 3 old immortal staff to allow 3 new immortal staff to try it out
 

Whatever.

Everyone recognizes a problem - all I'm trying to find out is that as a consensus, what would actually make us happy? Do we want global events or do we want balances and areas?

I can't really speak to staff capacity, schedules, or skillsets, because I don't know enough about the details. But here's what I can offer...

Things that I can do by the end of April:

- A new end game area built, tested, and implemented (I know this can be done and can/would/have volunteered to do it myself)

Things that I can do by the end of May:

- Completion of MUD school (in partnership with Lloth) and character generation process to be tested, reviewed, and installed
- Assist with the establishment of a proper website/landing page (the team we had assembled has stalled on this, admittedly, but I'm positive we can regroup and complete the project)

Things that I can do by the end of October:

- Crowdfunding and implementation of an intensive marketing campaign to attract returning veterans and new players

And here's what I would love to see in the ideal world...

Things that I would love to see by the end of April:

- Balance fixes to Psionicists based on the suggestions of the active Psi players and the logs received so far
- Release of a change log (no matter how good, bad, or ugly) of YTD changes in 2020
- Creation of a development roadmap for the next six months
- Implementation of a staffing policy change wherein expectations are adjusted, and made transparent to the playerbase, for IMM visibility and interaction in game
- Completion of all existing global RP plots (Savant Tower, Miruvhor flooding, Faerie source)

Things that I would love to see by the end of May:

- Adjustment of the character generation process to support and coincide with the release of new MUD school
- Completion and release of at least 1-2 of the new areas that are in development
- Introduction and completion of a new global scale RP plot
- Planning for a 1-2 week long global in-game event for the 20th anniversary of FL

Things that I would love to see by the end of October:

- Implementation of a new class OR a comprehensive class rework for an underperforming class
- Implementation of a new expandable end game area with highly replayable content
- Completion of the equipment rebalance
- Creation of a coding and building development roadmap for 2021

[tassinvegeta]

To me most of the complaints and issues that upset people the most and make them quit are as follows;

 

The Problem: The feeling of being passed up, waiting long hours. Imms part of a different timezone. Imms on vacation.

Possible Solution: I never understood this. The entire rp system, imm cmd to view pk should help ensure this never happens. In addition we still use an age old system where a single imm tends to run a single cabal. When I feel imms should help run multiple cabals and have multiple duties. More things in the game should be automated to help prevent a player who invests time into the mud from feeling left out or that he/she is wasting there time. E/L/q_applications should have auto-timers effected by time in the game as well as out, this would accommodate both those who put hours into the game and those whom can't put in as much due to RL. If Imms snoop and see a negative action, the time should be extended. If a positive is snooped the time should be reduced. No one gets left out and everyone has a clear expectation of what is required  with the determining factor being time. If an imm is withdrawing from his/her duties, for whatever reason, he/she should become secondary. Not eliminated entirely either. Less of the burden would be placed on them and it would be better for everyone with an active standby. Probably the number one reason players get such bad tastes in there mouth and have negative views of the game.

 

The problem PK edges: The feeling that you have to write a novel when starting a new character. Or that you're too far behind an already established character discourages new characters from being rolled. Heavy pk'ers from playing the game. Though I understand the pros of this in that it encourages pk heavy characters to rp. But certainly there can be a middle ground?

Possible solution: Limit pk edges or remove them entirely keeping only rp edges. Keep the necklaces for the heavy pk'ers. Lower the cost of other rp edges.

 

The Problem: Tons of things go on for quite some time being considered imbalanced.

Possible Solution: Can't things be play tested more? Even after implementation? Can things be rolled back as a quick fix until a better solution is found? I can count the number of times a combo is destroying everyone for months. Then I somehow get matched up against them and only then, does it seem like it gets attention. Then theirs the other pk related issues I've brought up, then only years later were addressed. Aren't there imms that are better at spotting this? Perhaps this is a problem with Imms not playing morts? Is the main coder not active enough? There seem to be many passionate players whom have put themselves out there so much willing to help. Surely egos and grudges can be put aside to trust for the betterment of the game? Heck @egreirand I might even be considered friends now and we've always been bitter enemies in the past. If we can do it, you guys can. One thing I noticed about past staff as a whole is that it seemed they were much more friendly and chatty to the community. We all are afterall in this together. I can only speculate here being on the outside looking in. Since pk is so forced in this game this is perhaps the 2nd biggest reason people stop playing or leave.

 

The Problem: The feeling that players get when going to imms that they don't know what they're talking about, aren't taken seriously, opinions don't matter, often ignored. People come to me all the time and I can't imagine treating them this way albeit with very very few exception. And I've never been in the position of an imm. This is the reason why players often go on the public forum. As @egreirmentioned the same problems have been brought up for years and nothing's been done. How many characters has he quit for the same issues many of us have over and over? These things frustrate me too, and the reason to come back becomes less and less compelling. My motivation decreases over time. My participation decreases over time. Its been awhile since I participated this much on the forum because it feels like it'll be for naught. But its @Celerityrefusal to give up that gives me hope. And onto the point she mentioned about the, the shroud not working and must go. The little bit of admittance of what's wrong and openness of things being discussed behind the scenes keeps me hanging in there a little bit longer.

Possible Solution: A more positive culture should be made standard and enforced. Imms should always respond in some way to comments on prayer. Some type of advice, words of encouragement and most of all what is going on. If there aren't any Imms that are very good at this then there are or should I say 'were' plenty of players who seem actively willing to step in.

 

I've never played a game for this long before. Maybe I've been playing for this game for 17 years? The amount of time, effort, thought, I put into this game is insane. The donations, the stories, the history, the friends and enemies, and long discussions.  Theirs no amount of money I'd value over these memories. Why does it feel like I'm more passionate about this game and care about more about the state its in and the players we're losing than those whom should? It breaks my heart everytime I see a quitting post. Especially from a repeated issue that is within our power to fix.

 

You guys are all great at certain things. Thank you @Anumefor responding to two of my posts that mean a lot to me, and for keeping the game going for so long. Thank you @Ulmusdornfor bridging the gap and speaking to us, bringing things to light and bringing us all together in hopes of making things better. Thank you @Llothfor your hard building work behind the scenes. Thank you @Zoichanfor just being awesome. Thank you @Kess.. imm guy for approving all my crappy rp stuff lol. But we can all do more, even if that means being humble enough to recognize our own shortcomings and working towards a better future. Many of us are here to help and care as much as each of you do. 

Didn't expect this post to be so long. Guess I pulled a @Tantangel 😁

 

[Erelei]

12 hours ago, Celerity said:

Staff attempts to do things like character generation and a new cabal via OLC progs is a very bad sign.

This is irritating to see. Try something different and it’s assumed we’re at rock bottom. 
 

One word right now guys. Since February. Covid-19. I’m overworked and while I have minimal time right now, it doesn’t mean I’ve given up or don’t make changes. I keep up with the bug board and our git change log is there. 
 

Publicity of git is another story though. I’ll reply with more thoughts when I have got some sleep behind these eyes.  

[Mali]

Erelei, thanks for responding and I think it goes without saying that many people are slammed with coronavirus and I truly hope everyone is safe during this time.

I won't comment personally on issues you have posted about but I can say that we are really counting on you to have code finished in a timely way. Or, if for any reason you can't commit to project management on a timeline right now, then the rest of the staff will have to scramble to get it done. This means tapping into others that can code so that the project moves forward. If you can't move it forward, please let another have the keys or set up a team that can move things forward when you need to be away.

I am concerned that you feel a player's post is irritating. Well, I can understand why you might feel that way, but I am concerned you would communicate about it here. Better to keep your eye on the prize. 

 One thing that seems clear is that you have a lot of projects on your plate. Redistributing some of them as it concerns FL could help give you the time back to communicate about changes like these and where they fit along the project timeline. Let's see where the decisions were made, what their outcome was, and how we can use that info to get better.

To Egreir's point, change can be difficult but the door is open for the implementer team to trade a little control for a little progress. When your personal and professional life are barriers to game development, then the right thing to do is remove your role in gatekeeping progress. You can be a great leader and still empower change even if you cannot be present every step of the way. I want you to succeed at everything (life, work, recreation) and I want to see the game in active development so the two are not mutually exclusive, 

[Mali]

9 hours ago, EllaThePuppy said:

I can't really speak to staff capacity, schedules, or skillsets, because I don't know enough about the details. But here's what I can offer...

Things that I can do by the end of April:

- A new end game area built, tested, and implemented (I know this can be done and can/would/have volunteered to do it myself)

Things that I can do by the end of May:

- Completion of MUD school (in partnership with Lloth) and character generation process to be tested, reviewed, and installed
- Assist with the establishment of a proper website/landing page (the team we had assembled has stalled on this, admittedly, but I'm positive we can regroup and complete the project)

Things that I can do by the end of October:

- Crowdfunding and implementation of an intensive marketing campaign to attract returning veterans and new players

And here's what I would love to see in the ideal world...

Things that I would love to see by the end of April:

- Balance fixes to Psionicists based on the suggestions of the active Psi players and the logs received so far
- Release of a change log (no matter how good, bad, or ugly) of YTD changes in 2020
- Creation of a development roadmap for the next six months
- Implementation of a staffing policy change wherein expectations are adjusted, and made transparent to the playerbase, for IMM visibility and interaction in game
- Completion of all existing global RP plots (Savant Tower, Miruvhor flooding, Faerie source)

Things that I would love to see by the end of May:

- Adjustment of the character generation process to support and coincide with the release of new MUD school
- Completion and release of at least 1-2 of the new areas that are in development
- Introduction and completion of a new global scale RP plot
- Planning for a 1-2 week long global in-game event for the 20th anniversary of FL

Things that I would love to see by the end of October:

- Implementation of a new class OR a comprehensive class rework for an underperforming class
- Implementation of a new expandable end game area with highly replayable content
- Completion of the equipment rebalance
- Creation of a coding and building development roadmap for 2021

Pushing this back to front and center. Ella this is a huge offer and boon to the community. 

[Mmm Coffee]

I agree with Tassin on the PK edges.  Little things add up to create unbalance.  Especially combined with already-powerful class combos.  I would probably play more often if I didn't feel like I needed an exhaustive amount of creative energy.  At some point of character progress, in the current RP system, the game feels way more like a job/chore and becomes (for me) much less gratifying.  So I'd be all for removing edges as a change.

Over next 1-2 months I'd like to see the toning/buffing/balancing of the mentioned classes:  bmg, psi, lich  It probably would take at least that long to work out changes.

I'd love to see some minor skill tweaks to thieves that make people not log off.

IMO, if you fix the classes and people are having fun again, the end-game content should come after the class balancing.

[Zhurong]

5 hours ago, Mmm Coffee said:

I agree with Tassin on the PK edges.  Little things add up to create unbalance.  Especially combined with already-powerful class combos.  I would probably play more often if I didn't feel like I needed an exhaustive amount of creative energy.  At some point of character progress, in the current RP system, the game feels way more like a job/chore and becomes (for me) much less gratifying.  So I'd be all for removing edges as a change.

Over next 1-2 months I'd like to see the toning/buffing/balancing of the mentioned classes:  bmg, psi, lich  It probably would take at least that long to work out changes.

I'd love to see some minor skill tweaks to thieves that make people not log off.

IMO, if you fix the classes and people are having fun again, the end-game content should come after the class balancing.

Thieves don't really need tweaks. People just need to stop being so heavily reliant on equipment. As a Thief player, I always fight, however you will have stuff stolen and pried in order for me to fight. It is part of my debuffs like shaman mals. It more so, stop being pussies.

[Lloth]

On 4/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Celerity said:

Staff attempts to do things like character generation and a new cabal via OLC progs is a very bad sign.

Staff does the same old same, and they're out of ideas. Staff does something new and innovative, suddenly we're scratching the bottom of the barrel.

 

Thanks.

[English lad]

1 hour ago, Lloth said:

Staff does the same old same, and they're out of ideas. Staff does something new and innovative, suddenly we're scratching the bottom of the barrel.

 

Thanks.

I know it can be frustrating when you feel your work isn't appreciated - but I think this has been a really positive thread - good things have come from it, community has come together - This is the most negative and divisive post in the thread, and it is disappointing to see it come from a Senior Staff member.

I've seen similar things from you in the Discord - and while I appreciate you like to maintain your edgy / dark comedy persona - it really does feel like you have burnt out, and you aren't enjoying it anymore.

[Erelei]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions here - even staff. Let's stop degrading others here, and actually move to more positive changes and suggestions.

Celerity must have not really thought her sentence through, because it was an icicle through my heart, too. There's nothing wrong with confronting. I find it really off-putting that any person here would think just because I'm a staff member that I'm not capable of feeling hurt or attacked, just like the rest of you.
 

9 minutes ago, English lad said:

This is the most negative and divisive post in the thread, and it is disappointing to see it come from a Senior Staff member.

It certainly is a good thing that this is the only comment you're seeing, and it's kind of comical to think you believe this is the most negative post here. We've already had to remove one which was downright ugly and had nothing constructive in it, which was spurred by most, if not all things negative in Celerity's post. This isn't to say it's Cel's fault, but indicating that we're somehow reaching rock bottom because we decided to do something differently for a change and then getting the dog-pile doesn't make us feel any better. 

Instead of throwing more 'I can't believe you even feel that way - how dare you!' (emphasis on purpose, here) posts at us, perhaps our players can constructively investigate why that feels like a potshot. This is directed at @Mali and @kamikazi in particular.

Regardless, the reactive positivism from this thread could have been approached differently, perhaps - I'm not sure how, but the arguments between Izzzzy and Archbishop really should have been stifled from the get go on that PK thread, and all of this should have been handled a lot differently. It's the past, now, though, but for what it's worth: you can't make everyone happy - and I'm going to prove this to you in the next few months. Let's hope I'm completely wrong though
 

[Ryl]

I’d like to help with anything I can, because I’d like to see things get better. I just don’t know how to help and don’t know what is needed and where I would be fitting. 
 

I still struggle dealing with the basics, but I’m sure there is something I could do.

[Anume]

@kamikazi I will continue to delete your posts as they are flamy and hold nothing constructive. You can yell all you want on fb, until you stop flaming, your posts will be gone.

Cheers.

[Anume]

As to this thread. I've thought for quite some time if I should reply and if so, in what form. It is very difficult for me to stay polite here and not to react in the same way, that this thread was meant: hurtful, agressive, reproachful.

Anyone who does not see this, re-read the thread and a lot of the replies here and put yourself in the staff's shoes for a moment.

I am very happy however, that something very positive has come from such a negative thread. It has been hurtful enough to start a discussion among the staff if we want to continue at all or close things down. (And no, I definitely would not give the mud to you, Cel. 😉)

The result of our discussion - and also a very few players who have approached us and actually tried to be constructive - is that we're going to go that extra mile. We've restructured some of our tracking functions and decided that we'll wrap up ongoing plots. Ere has taken the time to fix build port even though he is ill with the corona virus AND is still working on top. This is a huge step, as it allows us to go ahead with some projects which were on hold until today like the eq rebalancing.

I'm very excited about some olc flags Ere is working on that will allow a much easier transfer of changes from build port to main. We have several ALMOST done areas which will come life in the near future (next 2 months), a big thank you for those who poured in countless hours here (both staff and players) olcing, coding and testing. 

Ere and I have also decided to give you guys access to the code, which will probably result in a lot of discussions. I'm asking you guys to not be flamey, not be demanding and not bitch at Erelei for not changing something you deem necessary at all or fast enough due to your ability to see what the code is actually doing now. Also, do not force knowledge on people who do not want it. Personally, I am able to read the code, but for the most part, I am not doing it, because it takes the freel out of playing. Anyone playing here for a longer time and being successful at pk does know anyhow what influences what. The code is also a chance for those less experienced to catch up a bit I guess.

I'm finishing this post, and also this thread with a statement from me, personally. It is not the opinion of all of the staff, but I've decided to do this and am asking staff to adhere to this new policy, for self-preservation reasons:

We will no longer allow outright flaming and pot-shots at the staff. We do not allow you to do this to players, but we've tolerated it for a very long time if the staff was the target. The result is staff leaving, staff being so disencouraged they stop caring or stop being willing to pour in hours of their life to make this game fun for us all. I can undstand a wish to be open and to allow discussion - and we will continue to allow you to do that, as long as it is done politely. No more witch hunts, no more pot-shots, no flaming, not even well worded and hidden in an intelligent post. If you have a true concern you are welcome to voice it, in the same polite way you'd do it towards another player. Posts not adhering to this policy will be deleted.