Ganging/Tagging, is it an issue?

[Cephirus]

I have seen a lot of different threads where people are so concerned with tagging/ganging, etc. Why? AFAIK (and I could be wrong) there are no rules around this (outside those set specifically for Qrace/Qclass).

To me, we should do more ganging. Whoever is the most powerful, guess what, you are gonna get ganked by the three members in the opposing cabal. Deal with it. That is what you get for being the top dog. I am sick of all this whining and worrying about who should be fighting who and who started combat when. It is too much to keep track of and it leaves people who actively want to engage in PK without someone to PK.

So I say, with absolutely no authority, jump into any and all fights and see what happens. Also, don't forget to full loot!!! MFLGA!

['tarako]

Honestly the mindset of "all fights must be 1v1" is pretty annoying. It leads to a lot of ooc hatred, an immense amount of IC grief with borderline ooc tells.  Fact of the matter is there are some SUPER decked chars that need to be ganged to be taken out unless there is a huge mistake on their part. Personally I only report ganging when it is unnecessary and being done by qrace/classes.

[tassinvegeta]

Unfortunately we're long passed these days. Trying to bring them back would only result in more people leaving, not playing when odds aren't in there favor, ooc rings. Only feasible option I see is creating a Ganging/Tagging mode. Where a character can choose to toggle this option for a certain amount of hours. Other players would be aware this is active by a change on PK color and/or global echo. Incentives that might encourage this would possibly be increased regeneration, promos, etc.

[EllaThePuppy]

I personally have never actively or intentionally ganged anyone. I did used to be a 100% full looter. Like... carry stone golem scrolls around so I can 'o all get all corpse' kind of full looter. When I came back at the end of 2019, it was from a much more relaxed mindset. These days I very rarely take anything other than gold, maybe a few consumables or search your bag for a lockbox, and an item or two IF you have a top tier goodie that I can use (not just that I want to get rid of).

The way I see it is this:

1) We are all working adults. People already wig out over losing 2-3 items, much less their whole suit - partially because everyone around here is a pretty princess (luv u lol) and partially because very few people have the time or wherewithal to be re-equipping all the time.

Are the people wrong for wigging out over a few items? Yes.
Does that invalidate the concern that our active playerbase has less daily time to commit to the game (i.e. re-equipping)? No.

2) The power differential between 99.9% of race/class/cabal combos and player skill levels is pretty minimal. Yes, there are still the players who are ahead of the curve that fight players who couldn't PK their way out of a wet paper bag. But in general, most characters are reasonably competitive against most other characters. I personally have not seen a single match-up that I would call fundamentally unbalanced except in terms of player skill; there are variables that work to your advantage, but overall most anyone should be able to kill most anyone at this point.

3) The result of this relative balance is that ganging isn't just the "edge" (proverbial edge, not RP edge) you need to overcome a tough match-up. It's adding a whole new power dynamic to one side of the fight (especially if the gang synergizes well together, e.g. monk and giant-sized melee) that, given the relative balance I've referred to, is nearly impossible to overcome. In essence what this will lead to is a whole order of magnitude greater of "bad feels" when you die - and then the feelsbad of the loot on top of it? That very quickly leads to a downward spiral of quality of gameplay for most/all people.

So with that said, the issue isn't just one of balance vs imbalance, it's also one of player retention. And trying to make daily play enjoyable with fewer players is almost guaranteed to be worse than trying to maintain some semblance of orderly kill-mongering when it comes to the self-policing and IMM policing that goes into our existing (what I find to be mostly classy) PK system.

It's not against the administration's rules to gang in most cases, but it is often against the rules of the "court of public opinion". I don't think our current system (which is mostly free-for-all, honestly) is bad; rather, I think players that feel constrained by it are mostly at the mercy of their own mentality and an overarching fear of public reprisal/backlash.

 

TL;DR -  Ganging and full looting is already technically permissible in most cases. I don't think encouraging a rampant increase in ganging and full-looting is necessarily going to result in a positive impact on overall gameplay.

[Cephirus]

I am glad others have similar viewpoints and there is at least a consensus that any ganging and tagging (outside of cabal and Q-related) is unrestricted. Perhaps now people will stop worrying about it. I know I myself in the past year or so have brought it up in character and have regretted it. Definitely was one of those heat of the moment things that in retrospect you know doesn't bring value and may only leave a bad taste in the mouth of the other player.

Hopefully others will read this thread and make an effort to worry less about such things. I know I will.

['tarako]

Personally I think 1-2 super decked unkillable chars running around gatekeeping everything at 50 is FAR more frustrating than being tagged, or ganged. The only time in the last like 4 years I have reported a gang is when I was getting beheaded and rushed by a sader while being seared by an undead bmg at the same time. Beyond that, w/e floats your boat. I am gonna catch you alone, and repay you in kind. 

[Archbishop Monk]

There are some lopsided combos against certain other combos.  Imagine if the psi before the fix decided to 'tag' someone.  Some of those debuffs last quite a long time.  Imagine a shaman deteriorating you and then a necro running you down shortly afterwards.  Imagine a paladin fighting an invoker and a shaman runs in and blasphemes them.  With the eq re-balancing, some of the skills become far more powerful than they once were.  So, ganging while the balance is going in I avoid.  I know I tried my best on Cirilha not to gang anyone because I knew my combo was exceptionally strong.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't go for someone if you find them alone.  Especially if they jumped you before.  I don't think anyone should stop PK just because the other person might or might not have been jumped moments before.  But, most of the game is not balanced for 1v2 or 1v4, especially with the equipment rebalancing.  When you hear the yells of someone fighting and decide to jump someone in the middle of their fight, then I have to say it wasn't you just pking, but purposefully jumping in.

['tarako]

I guess I just think about it differently. Typically my greatest pvp enjoyment comes from going hard at 50. I personally dont care about non qrace/class gangs when they are warranted. If someone is a super decked 6+ month old cabal E/L who rarely drops, I would expect THEM to assume gangs are on the table just as I would expect them myself. Personally I get bored if I am just rolling people, or people log off. Group up, and get at er.

[EllaThePuppy]

7 hours ago, 'tarako said:

I guess I just think about it differently. Typically my greatest pvp enjoyment comes from going hard at 50. I personally dont care about non qrace/class gangs when they are warranted. If someone is a super decked 6+ month old cabal E/L who rarely drops, I would expect THEM to assume gangs are on the table just as I would expect them myself. Personally I get bored if I am just rolling people, or people log off. Group up, and get at er.

What’s interesting to me is that you keep mentioning qrace/qclass gangs.
 

Given that most qthings are arguably on a relatively balanced playing field (hasn’t always been the case, but mostly is these days), I find it intriguing that you would still report a qthing tagging you if your attitude about ganging and being ganged is so cavalier. 
 

To me that speaks of an imbalance, even in the face of “not caring”, in the sentiment of willingness to gang versus willingness to be ganged.

['tarako]

Qraces are held to a higher standard. When they relaxed gang/tag rules it didnt change for qraces/classes. My thoughts usually are based around the rules of the game. It is literally a divine mandate that these characters are held to a higher standard. 

[EllaThePuppy]

34 minutes ago, 'tarako said:

Qraces are held to a higher standard. When they relaxed gang/tag rules it didnt change for qraces/classes. My thoughts usually are based around the rules of the game. It is literally a divine mandate that these characters are held to a higher standard. 

I'm aware that the rules are still in place. But it also used to be a rule that there was no ganging/tagging period, and you're saying that ganging/tagging doesn't bother you. So it being a rule is a non-factor. It's about the sentiment that the experience creates.

['tarako]

I don't know what to say. I try to adjust my opinion to fit available resources (divine mandates, help files etc). Imms removed gangtag restrictions with a few stipulations tied in to prevent it becoming a habit. If people are operating within the rules imms set then my opinion is ultimately second seat.

[Mali]

nt

[aaa]

19 hours ago, 'tarako said:

The only time in the last like 4 years I have reported a gang is when I was getting beheaded and rushed by a sader while being seared by an undead bmg at the same time. Beyond that, w/e floats your boat. I am gonna catch you alone, and repay you in kind. 

I mean, thats pretty good if the only time you had to report ganging it wasn't actually a gang.

[Kassieti]

Play nice.

['tarako]

Sorry, I didnt mean to make it look shitty. I already said I dont care about warranted gangs. I didn't think posting a log to support what i meant would be a problem. Won't happen again