EtsoShex Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Mmm.. Politastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-D&Der Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 You don't have to be a communist to think that the Iraq war has been a waste of money. We attacked the wrong country in retaliation for 9/11 because the Bush administration manipulated the public. Now we're reaping the benefits of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I think there are some truths to the whole richest nations get poorer if poor nations get rich, though for a somewhat different reason. Wealth isn't wealth if everyone has it. It's the same concept of inflations in the fact that if there is a lot of money circulated, it isn't worth as much. Just like how right now there are tons of diamonds in the world, though the majority are not circulated in the hopes that the cost of diamonds will remain high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 You guys are right! We never should have attacked Iraq! We need to send a message that if your country supports terrorists, we won't do a thing! We're pushover wimps! Attack us and we won't respond! That's what we need to tell the world! If you are an American or enjoy the freedoms of America or live in a country that doesn't speak German because of America, then you need to be thankful that there are still people who understand that violence and the threat of violence are the only things that have ever truly changed anything. Socialism is the perfect government for perfect people. As soon as the world is populated with perfect people, maybe we can try it. Until then, let the subject matter experts be the subject matter experts and realize that Monday morning quarterbacking have never solved a thing. America wasn't formed by the colonists hugging the British into submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 You guys are right! We never should have attacked Iraq! We need to send a message that if your country supports terrorists' date=' we won't do a thing![/quote'] There was no evidence to suggest that Iraq had, in any way, supported Alqueda. We're pushover wimps! Attack us and we won't respond! That's what we need to tell the world! Please tell me when Iraq attacked us. To the best of my knowledge no substantial was ever supplied which linked Alqueda and Iraq. They are entirely seperate, just geographically central. If you are an American or enjoy the freedoms of America Freedom at what price? The lives of others? The freedoms of others? or live in a country that doesn't speak German because of America, Wow, you need to look at History. As much as the Us saved people's *** in WW2 it was merely because we selfishly avoided war and allowed attrocities to be commited and only acted when it became apparent that we could win. then you need to be thankful that there are still people who understand that violence and the threat of violence are the only things that have ever truly changed anything. Martin Luther King never changed anything, eh? What about the power of the media? Don't be so idiotic to think that only violence affects the world we live in. Violence may have its place but it should be a last resort. Socialism is the perfect government for perfect people. As soon as the world is populated with perfect people, maybe we can try it. I've already said, multiple times, that I do not support communism as a forum of goverment. Socialism, actually, isn't the same thing, although similar. I believe everyone has something to say. No one is as smart as all of us, which is why we should take into account the opinions even of our enemies. People aren't compelled by nothingness, and I think the key to take away from socialism/communism is that we shouldn't let people starve. Sure, it may be fair in the capitalist sense...but that doesn't make it right. Until then, let the subject matter experts be the subject matter experts It is my desire to major in economics when I go to college, so excuse me for thinking about it. America wasn't formed by the colonists hugging the British into submission. No, America was formed by freethinkers. By people who understand violence at its face value and made politcal protests and attempts before resorting to violence, only to realize they were not being listened to. They stated their grievances in a document we like to call the Declaration of Indepence. They resorted to violence only when soldiers were sent to opress them. Without the poltical side, it would have been nothing but a rebellion and they would not have gained the support of other countries and even the people around them. Without compelling words and beliefs, they would have failed miseribly. Violence should be used only to defend and protect your beliefs, but not instead of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayesh Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Actually, what got France and other countries on our side WAS NOT words, but a decisive military victory. They didn't want to support us if we weren't going to win. And it was a rebellion...nothing short of it. Also, if you're going to tell others to fact check their history, you should do the same. The fighting started before the Declaration was ever written. In 1775, Washington was already commander-in-chief of the Continental Army and fighting had already occurred in Massachusetts including Concord, Lexington, and Bunker Hill. In fact, Washington stood a good chance of losing most of his army of volunteers had public opinion not been swayed by the writing of Thomas Paine in his pamphlet, "Common Sense". Since that day, America has stood for freedom; Freedom from oppression and civil liberty. To quote one of these treasonous rebel leaders, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Saddam Hussein was a dangerous, evil, brutal oppressor of his people. He had, in the past, proven he was dangerous not just to his nation, but also his neighbors and other nations. As was already said, hindsight is of course always 20/20 and we can all sit back and say "what should have been done" now that we have a different set of facts. It was not the US that said he had weapons that could harm the world...it was EVERYONE, including Hussein himself. And, by not allowing the world to view for themselves his stockrooms, he was violating UN sanctions (which I could care less about but every leftist in the country considers them on par with the voice of God). If he'd complied, we wouldn't be there I imagine. But he didn't. He thumbed his nose at the world and said I triple dog dare you. Well, his *** is in a cell and the rest of the world is still picking up the pieces. The only reason any fighting is still going on is because terrorist factions and those lusting for power don't want a real government of the people there. If we were to pull out without finishing the job, another Saddam Hussein would rise in his place. To leave now would be to abandon the Iraqi people to despotism as we unfortunately did the South Vietnamese. Monday morning quarterbacking is ridiculous and naive. It does nothing but erode the support our troops need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiere Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 The resemblence to Hitler struck me while reading your post, Chayesh, namely the way he waltzed all over everybody at first. If we hadn't called his bluff, I wonder what would have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 There was no evidence to suggest that Iraq had' date=' in any way, supported Alqueda.[/quote'] Iraq was a safe haven for known members of the organization. Also, they openly supported the suicide bombers in Isreal. Freedom at what price? The lives of others? The freedoms of others?If Americans have to kill and die for Americans to be safe... life sucks wear a helmet. Wow' date=' you need to look at History. As much as the Us saved people's *** in WW2 it was merely because we selfishly avoided war and allowed attrocities to be commited and only acted when it became apparent that we could win.[/quote'] yes, America had been continuing their policies of isolationism until they entered the war... openly. The US had been aiding the allies for sometime covertly. It wasn't until popular support for the war effort kicked in that the US government was able to openly act. You argue tactics not end results. It doesn't matter how or why America saved a lot of country's tails; it matters that we did. Martin Luther King never changed anything' date=' eh? [/quote']Look up Bill Cosby's take on the present condition of the American "black culture" and all the hubub that surrounded his comments. What about the power of the media? Don't be so idiotic to think that only violence affects the world we live in. Violence may have its place but it should be a last resort. Ricky Martin will never move a political boundry. Madonna will never save a single oppressed person. I've already said' date=' multiple times, that I do not support communism as a forum of goverment. Socialism, actually, isn't the same thing, although similar. I believe everyone has something to say. No one is as smart as all of us, which is why we should take into account the opinions even of our enemies. People aren't compelled by nothingness, and I think the key to take away from socialism/communism is that we shouldn't let people starve. Sure, it may be fair in the capitalist sense...but that doesn't make it right.[/quote']I am not accusing you of being communist. I'm just pointing out the horrible realities of life. One of which is people should starve. Pain and hunger are great motivators. Paying someone who just sits on their *** tends to make them sit on their ***. It is my desire to major in economics when I go to college' date=' so excuse me for thinking about it. [/quote']Even though much of my life is dedicated to you, this was a general reply to you, the other members of the forum, and the nasty illuminati's that have been tracking me for years. No, America was formed by freethinkers. By people who understand violence at its face value and made politcal protests and attempts before resorting to violence, only to realize they were not being listened to. They stated their grievances in a document we like to call the Declaration of Indepence. They resorted to violence only when soldiers were sent to opress them. Without the poltical side, it would have been nothing but a rebellion and they would not have gained the support of other countries and even the people around them. Without compelling words and beliefs, they would have failed miseribly. Violence should be used only to defend and protect your beliefs, but not instead of them.America was formed with violence. They didn't like the way things were (right or wrong) and killed people to take the land. And then they killed more people to take more land. It is the history of the US. That's what happens when you give a little bit of power to criminals and discontents. (Don't take any of this as a flame. I'm enjoying the debate even though you are WRONG! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 And' date=' yes, the middle east looks pretty nice in the bigger, nicer cities. But then you go to the slums...which are so much worse than our slums...like I've seen reports on India where people live in tents they've built...like being at a flea market miles long...thousands of people, sleeping on the ground in their little pitched up tents. However, India is the country I have the most faith in ATM. The people there are very industrious and many of them work long hours in technologically advanced jobs(tech help, pc repair, etc) with far more global exports in both products and services than they import.[/quote'] They are developing nations, did any of what I say to you stick? As a country developes, the gap between the haves and the have nots get bigger, this always happens. Why does it happen? Because not everyone jumps on the bandwagon at the same time, yet everyone wants and is expected to reap the same rewards. This way you have those earlier starters who get into the new jobs and oppertunities, but you still have people that are set in the lifestyle they have lived for a long time and haven't moved onward, and what do you get then? Confliciting idologies. You get the new and improved developed, idustrious population, and the old and traditional agricultural population. Then as the country developes furthur and foergin trade happens, the products that the agricultural/natural resource population has been producing can be obtained cheaper by buying it from overseas, this widdens the income inequality gap. Eventually the gap will shrink, it's still fluctuating in the US, FYI according to the world bank/UN, the US is not in the top five developed nations, infact, we're number 10.(2005 results) As far as countries developing, I have faith in all of them, that sooner or later, they will get better. Is it going to happen as quick as you want? No, and it won't happen as quick as I want, but it's going to happen, it always does. Anyways, even if all of what I have said was a blatant lie, it doesn't matter. We can only offer aid to the country, we can't give it to the people. The people incharge are the ones who have to dispurse the aid to where it's needed(unless it's like Iraq and you probably aren't the one who is going to say lets do to Syria and Lebanon what we did to Iraq). And giving aid to third world governments certainly worked in Somalia and Uganda and North Korea and... WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-D&Der Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 It ain't hindsight. I've been saying the same thing since the Administration started trying to generate support for the war. As have many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbond Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 why dont we invade all countries that might harbor terrorists then. i say reinstate the draft, bring all bad countries to their knees. then everything will be cool. wait, they say there are terrorists in our country too, so we also need special police to investigate everyone over here too. so we need camera surveillance on everyone, background checks, and undercover snitches. also, we'll need those special police to put down all the US citizens with different ideas of freedom than the above, because as we start more wars those pesky folks will start to "whine." the special police's job could be to keep those bad people silenced, incarcerated, or killed. oh, and re-education camps to teach the whiners who show promise of reform to learn "freedom" the modern 2006 way. that way they can work off some of their incarceration time and become a productive citizen of the New America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zavero Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 You are just going overboard with it Goldbold. And we already have special services for terrorists in our country. Never heard of FBI? CIA? Other factions of the government that are here for that? They don't close my mouth when I tell you my opinion. Nor do they close the mouths of those people who post videos about 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconz Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Look up Bill Cosby's take on the present condition of the American "black culture" and all the hubub that surrounded his comments. Last time I checked... Bill Cosby isnt the spokesperson for Black America... A good portion of his comments were pretty ignorant for a man as old as he is... then again I guess the older you are, the more crochety you get... He should stick to puddin commercials and comedy. __________________ Iconz - Yooooouuuu cant say any filth-flarin-filth-flarin-filth! Daaaaaaaaahhhhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 who would be a better spokesman? richard pryor? chris rock? tupac? most "spokesman" are actually parodies of stereotypes. they glorify what's wrong with their culture, instead of offering solutions. get an education, get a job. very simple stuff, when you think of it. and before someone states an ethnic person cannot afford/get schooling, let me remind them there is no NAAWP. i love all my fellow people, but i disagree with those who feel they are "trapped" in their current situation. every step leading to where they are, there was a choice made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconz Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Cosby cant be the spokesperson for black america... he's already got a contract with Jello and Kodak. Honestly, your opinion on this issue is lacking. Life is more complex than a choice... sometimes you can only choose between the lesser of two evils. We only know what is taught to us... humans are social creatures. Life isnt fair.... so why are we pretending that everyone is on the same foot? __________________ Iconz - Why the rubberband? It represents the struggle man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 All the stuff my stooge said... ...is actually fairly similar to my viewpoints. Glad to know he can fill in for me politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 "humans are social creatures". we are sheep. and sheep are dumb. it's okay to disagree with each other, that's what makes debate fun and interesting. i don't neccessarily have to convince you, and vice versa. it all comes down to money. you can do it the hard way, or the easy way. humans today are lazy. lazy as all get out. we want what we want, when we want it. hustlin' is easier than a job, and more profitable. many do it, but few actually escape it to better themselves. i feel quite comfortable with my views, and i can see where you have yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconz Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Hahaha man... humans have been lazy ever since they discovered fire... hell i always thought that was the purpose of technology... to have something else do all the work for you. Hustlin is fast money... but easy come easy go. Also, its not easier than a job because the last time i went to work i didnt have to worry about getting shot 9 times. Then again... you dont need a diploma to do it... This is why i suggest something less dangerous and profitable for all the job-haters people out there ... __________________ Iconz - Pimpin' aint easy... but damnit it's fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zavero Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 You guys watch too many movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Of course Cosby is a bad example! He was a high school drop out, he had an absentee father, he grew up poor in N. Phillie, he was born in 37 (long before the work of the previously mentioned Dr. MLK, Jr). He has nothing in common with the blacks of today.... he had it tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I always thought america did a smart move towards her interests in invading Iraq. She secured one of the best/largest oil fields of the time. Now with the high price on Oil, those fields have shifted to Central America. Heavy crude is hard to refine, but if the price is high enuff you can make profit from it. Ever heard about East Timor, ever heard about australia help during the strugle against Indonesia ? Ever wondered who now has the oil contracts in East Timor sea ? Australia. Not that they did not have before . Well in Iraq the the oil contracts where mainly FRENCH and another one i do not recall. That is why probably the French where so mutch against it. Want to bet who will have the lion share of the oil contracts in Iraq ? That is right US. Also, wealth as in money is not all, as you cannot eat paper. And in case of war paper money is normaly almost worthless. Gold speaks well in times of war, but still you cant trade with the oposing party, you need other neutral countries to trade with. And when all things are going down for all contries, like say in a oil shortage situation gold = paper = nothing. In the end you cannot eat gold. I think to many of the Americans are afected by their own propaganda to think with clarity. And stuff like the 7/11 does not helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconz Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Right... because Cosby is the only one who has had it rough... And now that he's made it on top hes got the right to just s*** chocolate puddin flavored poo on everyone who isnt there yet... There's tons of success stories... but there are also an equal amount of failure stories... You just dont hear the all sucesses b/c not everyone becomes a celebrity... however, you hear the failure stories all the time... it's called the local news. Fem-nec is right... there is a sheep mentality somtimes... especially around 'celebs'. I read Cosby's "Poundcake Speech".... He had a positive message, its just that during it he had some spurts of shocking ignorance. (Haha...7/11.. Personally I think 7/11 is very helpful... when i'm thirsty. Oh thank heaven!) Anyway... as to the US invasion of Iraq... it seems pretty simple. Somebody needed to get a beatdown after the black eye that the US got on 9/11. Who better than somebody you already dont like? Its like if someone sucker punches a bully... and the bully doesnt see who did it... but he sees some puny kid who he doesnt like anyway and has been wanting to beat up for a while now laughing at him. It doesnt matter if the kid was the one who sucker punched him! The fact that the punk is laughing is reason enough! The bully needs to act! Or else every twirp on the playground is going to sucker punch him when he's not looking! He cant have that, so he beats the crap out of the malnourished kid to teach all the other kids on the playground a lesson. "Mess with me, and I will democratize your a**!" __________________ Iconz - Baaaaaa..... Hey! Dont get any funny ideas you NZer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 ...is actually fairly similar to my viewpoints. Glad to know he can fill in for me politically. I really haven't said anything political except that I hate bush. WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-D&Der Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Actually there is an NAAWP. It was founded by the former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke in 1980. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I really haven't said anything political except that I hate bush. WC Fine, political/economical. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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