Game state.

[Seravin]

I’ve dialed back my expectations to zero, or at least I try to, but then I get into a character. I want to interact and affect the world. There’s either some sort of event horizon that has to be crossed or timing/luck to land in an imms playtime so that maybe you can move your plans along. Assuming said imm can or will help me as a player to achieve goals outside of my reach. 
 

You’ve derailed a “I don’t like being dependent on imms” thread into “I don’t like waiting for stuff”. Nobody said they had a problem with waiting. That isn’t the issue. It’s the gate keeping. 
 

I waited at 15(yes my choice) for two and a half weeks for an avatar. I was fully trained outside of some anatomies, I had 500k gold in the bank and I did something like 100 guild quests. Well over 100 rp, etc etc. Half of my wait was because Zoichan and I were on in different time zones. If avatar was something I could do without imm approval or the rp session, I could have done it after a couple days instead of logging on hoping to catch them. 
 

I spent 3 or so days at level 30 waiting for my description to be approved because I asked for an off kilter restring. Again something that was beyond my control but could be automated or just simply checked afterward rather than gating. 
 

In both these cases I was frustrated with the wait, but ONLY because I couldn’t do anything to change the circumstance. And in neither was I given any sort of heads up about why I was waiting until I specifically asked an imm outside of game. 

[the_nightmare]

2 minutes ago, Seravin said:

I’ve dialed back my expectations to zero, or at least I try to, but then I get into a character. I want to interact and affect the world. There’s either some sort of event horizon that has to be crossed or timing/luck to land in an imms playtime so that maybe you can move your plans along. Assuming said imm can or will help me as a player to achieve goals outside of my reach. 
 

You’ve derailed a “I don’t like being dependent on imms” thread into “I don’t like waiting for stuff”. Nobody said they had a problem with waiting. That isn’t the issue. It’s the gate keeping. 
 

I waited at 15(yes my choice) for two and a half weeks for an avatar. I was fully trained outside of some anatomies, I had 500k gold in the bank and I did something like 100 guild quests. Well over 100 rp, etc etc. Half of my wait was because Zoichan and I were on in different time zones. If avatar was something I could do without imm approval or the rp session, I could have done it after a couple days instead of logging on hoping to catch them. 

I absolutely agree with you. Please don't get me wrong guys. I love the game being hardcore. I like it takes a day to get decked or a week. I like that you can be killed and full looted and then killed again while naked. I love that , I never complained about that. This is how FL should be, it is just a game and it is a very hardcore game on the top of that. But As you said, this gatekeeping is pushing me off very very much and it made me quit. I know quite a few people that left of the very same reason as well. As I said I have the feeling that I am in high school or in the kinder garden and I need the approval of every step I take of my superior or my boss.

 

I want to tell you the exact reason why I left. Please, don't get me wrong I am not blaming anyone at all here! I am blaming the current FL system and how it works.

 

With my warmaster thief I really wanted to get to (E) or (L) . I killed all the savant elders several times while I was a (V). I had around 150 hours with my toon. Then I had to wait at least two weeks to get to (T) because Tongar was on a holiday. (Of course he is a human after all but this just confirms how broken the current FL system is). Then I was told by f0xx that if I want a (L) I have to wait months probably and its mandatory to have an amazing RP ( which I didn't) . Not everybody can be an RP or PK god right? Does he/she deserves a (L) for their efforts? I think that the other cabal members have to decide this. If  you asked my teammates in Warmaster by that time that I played they would vote for me being a (Lead) straight away or at least (E) I promise you that. Nowhere to advance or to get what I think I deserved I quickly lost interest and deleted.

 

My last toon: Ninja in Watcher named Nictis.

 

I was not doing great neither was doing bad but I was putting a great effort in my toon. I had around 200 RP points and wrote many essays because I was promised by Ulmisdorn that If I improve my RP I will get (E) . Yet again, if you asked my cabal mates to vote if I deserve (E) by the time for sure the answer would be - yes he deserves an (E). So far so good, I wrote more than 10 essays had more than 200 hours and never got to (E) . Deleted of course and never returned back.

 

This is my personal experience that happened maybe 3 years ago. Now tell me do you really think that there isn't anything wrong with the current approval system of this so called gatekeeping?

[Gifnab]

I'm just going to copy and paste what I put on Discord for the sake of saving myself some typing.

Gatekeeping serves two purposes, whether you like/agree with them or not: 

1) Player investment. If there is no gatekeeping, there is no investment. Extreme case study: Halloween Madness. Like it or not, agree with it or not, Halloween Madness is not a game any of us would enjoy 365 days a year. Many of us don't even enjoy it two days a year. So for FL to lose some of its richness, which is bred from the admittedly self-serving investment that players put in to "get what they want", in favor of easier/streamlined/automated/whatever promotions and rewards is the antithesis of this.

2) Balance between casual and competitive players. There is already a HUGE skill gap and a HUGE learning curve between a veteran and a newbie. Make it so that players can simply put in more hours, and our casual players have no chance in hell -- and I'm talking about casual both in terms of skill level AND available playtime. If every Warmaster I go up against a newbie Savant has forms, or every Nexus I go up against as a newbie Knight has maxed chaos blades, I am going to suffer in PK more than I already do just by virtue of being a fresh pinn and a cabal inductee. We cannot possibly talk about how edges widen the gap between the "haves" and "have nots", and then suggest that automation doesn't do the same thing -- because automation serves the already-hardcore player a LOT more than the casual player.

I am open to a discussion on how we can make the processes to obtain these advanced rewards (promotions, tattoos, q-things, etc.) more transparent and equitable. But the idea of removing them entirely -- the idea of removing entirely the requirement that every character have at least a 10-line description by level 15 -- is completely antithetical to everything that is FL, in my opinion.

[the_nightmare]

32 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

I'm just going to copy and paste what I put on Discord for the sake of saving myself some typing.

Gatekeeping serves two purposes, whether you like/agree with them or not: 

1) Player investment. If there is no gatekeeping, there is no investment. Extreme case study: Halloween Madness. Like it or not, agree with it or not, Halloween Madness is not a game any of us would enjoy 365 days a year. Many of us don't even enjoy it two days a year. So for FL to lose some of its richness, which is bred from the admittedly self-serving investment that players put in to "get what they want", in favor of easier/streamlined/automated/whatever promotions and rewards is the antithesis of this.

2) Balance between casual and competitive players. There is already a HUGE skill gap and a HUGE learning curve between a veteran and a newbie. Make it so that players can simply put in more hours, and our casual players have no chance in hell -- and I'm talking about casual both in terms of skill level AND available playtime. If every Warmaster I go up against a newbie Savant has forms, or every Nexus I go up against as a newbie Knight has maxed chaos blades, I am going to suffer in PK more than I already do just by virtue of being a fresh pinn and a cabal inductee. We cannot possibly talk about how edges widen the gap between the "haves" and "have nots", and then suggest that automation doesn't do the same thing -- because automation serves the already-hardcore player a LOT more than the casual player.

I am open to a discussion on how we can make the processes to obtain these advanced rewards (promotions, tattoos, q-things, etc.) more transparent and equitable. But the idea of removing them entirely -- the idea of removing entirely the requirement that every character have at least a 10-line description by level 15 -- is completely antithetical to everything that is FL, in my opinion.

Do you think that my experience with the game with my last two characters is normal? What you would do in my place? Would you and your friends continue to play the game?

[tassinvegeta]

@Gifnab

1. Kinda jumping from one extreme to another with that example. Don't think anyone is asking for that.

2. At least it respects a players time. (Been playing another game. The things I can do in other games compared to what I can in FL in the same time is vastly different lol. Hard to stay logged into FL these days with that in my head, especially combined with finding only myself logged in or the occasional other 1-2 players who I really have no reason to interact with.)

I had multiple characters apply for tattoos over the years. Most of the time I don't even get a response to my application. Only time I got one was when I put in much less effort lol. After enough tries I think I understand now. Don't even try anymore. 

Multiple times have my characters done much more than the basic requirements. Hours, RP, taking on my banes/Elders/Leaders at V and below. Only to still have to wait weeks for the T promo. If rewards are primarily measured by real life time than what's the point of doing all these things in game? Hence why I'm encouraged to sit and wait until T, drink milk waiting out the I/M hours, play only moderately, not take too many risks etc. @Mmm Coffee the T promo is the largest power spike in the game with some exceptions. You're usually at a severe disadvantage pkwise against those at T and above without it.

@Gifnab It might be too late as most have already left or are halfway out the door. However all of the angry delete/prayer posts are still here from many players I'm sure. These arguments aren't new and have been circulating for years.

 

[the_nightmare]

26 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

@Gifnab

1. Kinda jumping from one extreme to another with that example. Don't think anyone is asking for that.

2. At least it respects a players time. (Been playing another game. The things I can do in other games compared to what I can in FL in the same time is vastly different lol. Hard to stay logged into FL these days with that in my head, especially combined with finding only myself logged in or the occasional other 1-2 players who I really have no reason to interact with.)

I had multiple characters apply for tattoos over the years. Most of the time I don't even get a response to my application. Only time I got one was when I put in much less effort lol. After enough tries I think I understand now. Don't even try anymore. 

Multiple times have my characters done much more than the basic requirements. Hours, RP, taking on my banes/Elders/Leaders at V and below. Only to still have to wait weeks for the T promo. If rewards are primarily measured by real life time than what's the point of doing all these things in game? Hence why I'm encouraged to sit and wait until T, drink milk waiting out the I/M hours, play only moderately, not take too many risks etc. @Mmm Coffee the T promo is the largest power spike in the game with some exceptions. You're usually at a severe disadvantage pkwise against those at T and above without it.

@Gifnab It might be too late as most have already left or are halfway out the door. However all of the angry delete/prayer posts are still here from many players I'm sure. These arguments aren't new and have been circulating for years.

 

Tassin , this is exactly what happened to me and i left for the very same reason. What you said is the exact one i wanted to say myself but your english is far superior to mine lol. Like i said , playing this game i have the feeling that i am not under control of my character and somebody else is deciding for me all the time. Just like having a boss watching you all the god damn time. 

[the_nightmare]

@Gifnab Please tell me do you think that what happened to me is normal and this is how the game should be ?

[Gifnab]

5 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

1. Kinda jumping from one extreme to another with that example. Don't think anyone is asking for that.

1) I specifically stated it was an extreme example. If you don't like where the line is drawn now, where do you suggest moving it to? Personally, I disagree with automating promotions up to Trusted, and I certainly disagree with removing mandatory descriptions (with desc checks) or automating q-stuff. If we were going to automate q-stuff, then we may as well make them base selections, at which point there is a whole other balance consideration as to how we can justify them being more powerful than the base selections.

9 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

 

2. At least it respects a players time. (Been playing another game. The things I can do in other games compared to what I can in FL in the same time is vastly different lol. Hard to stay logged into FL these days with that in my head, especially combined with finding only myself logged in or the occasional other 1-2 players who I really have no reason to interact with.)

2) If we made decisions about anything related to FL -- RP direction, content difficulty, character progression timelines, etc. -- based on the amount of hours the most hardcore players can dedicate, we would have three players that clock 100 hours a week and nobody else, because it would be absolutely impossible to keep up otherwise.

It is absolutely reasonable, and even expected, that an individual player will want the game state to most closely relate to their personal situation and habits. It is the job of the staff to weigh that against the personal situation and habits of the other players as well.

10 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

I had multiple characters apply for tattoos over the years. Most of the time I don't even get a response to my application. Only time I got one was when I put in much less effort lol. After enough tries I think I understand now. Don't even try anymore. 

If you are basing your actions and feelings regarding FL today on FL 5-10 years (or even 1-2 years ago) then I don't see how we can possibly reach a place of agreement on this. If the staff tells you, "If you want a tattoo, apply for it" and your response is "I don't feel comfortable applying for a tattoo, Viri or Crypt would have slain me for that", what else can you reasonably expect us to do?

The game has changed. Times have changed. The staff has changed. And we all acknowledge that we can continue to do better, and are working constantly toward doing just that. How is it fair to expect us to progress, move forward, and do better if you're just going to keep focusing on the past?

14 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

Multiple times have my characters done much more than the basic requirements. Hours, RP, taking on Elders/Leaders at V and below. Only to still have to wait weeks for the T promo. If rewards are primarily measured by real life time than what's the point of doing all these things in game? Hence why I'm encouraged to sit and wait until T, drink milk waiting out the I/M hours, play only moderately, not take too many risks etc. @Mmm Coffee the T promo is the largest power spike in the game with some exceptions. You're usually at a severe disadvantage pkwise against those at T and above without it.

Two things:

1) Players very seldom have waited the amount of real life time that they feel like they've waited. Every single immortal -- every. single. immortal. myself included -- has gotten a discord DM, or been tagged in a prayer post, asking why a player's XYZ application hasn't been approved yet, they've been waiting for almost two weeks, etc. And then we go and check the date on the application and it turns out it's been four days. There is definitely a skewed sense of time when you are waiting for something, and we get that. But sometimes you just have to wait. God forbid the Avatar immortal want to roleplay with a new avatar before making them one of his/her chosen, right? 😛

2) The thing that is almost never brought up at this point in the discussion, because the staff has a general rule that we don't share player discipline or prayer posts with anyone outside of that player, is that it is very rarely the case that a player is simply overlooked for a promotion or waiting for the sake of waiting.

Players gang and tag (sometimes intentionally, other times as a pattern of behavior). Players exhibit poor roleplay. Players do lousy things that cause them to get held back. Am I saying it's always the player's fault? No. But is it sometimes the result of a player's own actions that prevent them getting the thing they want? Yes, absolutely.

Now, the natural response here is likely to be: "But did you tell me that I wasn't getting promoted because I ganged somebody?" Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Sometimes we watch and wait to see if it was a one-off occurrence or a pattern. Other times we'll pull you up to have a chat. For the latter, it seldom goes well -- either the person gets defensive and angry, or they accept the talking to and then move on without changing the behavior. Either way, none of these options are conducive to setting a standard and rewarding people that adhere to/exceed it.

38 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

 

 It might be too late as most have already left or are halfway out the door. However all of the angry delete/prayer posts are still here from many players I'm sure. These arguments aren't new and have been circulating for years.

I don't know what you expect me to do with this or how I can possibly respond to it constructively.

We are acutely aware of the condition of our playerbase. We are doing everything we reasonably can, as a team of volunteers and people that love this game and the community, to make things better while keeping the core of FL's identity intact. But it's not going to happen overnight and you aren't going to like every change, every bug fix, every content addition... it's just not going to happen.

We are doing what we can. We are open to feedback and suggestions. And we are busting our asses to make the game better. If you can't see that, don't want to believe it, or generally don't care... then nothing else I can possibly say on the subject matters.

[Gifnab]

12 minutes ago, the_nightmare said:

@Gifnab Please tell me do you think that what happened to me is normal and this is how the game should be ?

I don't know what circumstances you're referring to and I don't know what/who your character was. I'm assuming you're referring to the bit about a toon having 20 journals and not getting leader?

I really cannot speak to the circumstances, but I can say this isn't a standard requirement by any means and it was probably not the only thing (or maybe even the main thing) holding you back. See my above comment in response to Tassin regarding promotions and what else can hold people back.

[the_nightmare]

4 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

I don't know what circumstances you're referring to and I don't know what/who your character was. I'm assuming you're referring to the bit about a toon having 20 journals and not getting leader?

I really cannot speak to the circumstances, but I can say this isn't a standard requirement by any means and it was probably not the only thing (or maybe even the main thing) holding you back. See my above comment in response to Tassin regarding promotions and what else can hold people back.

Thank you for the kind reply and explanation . Is it not ok if we just make the cabals player ran again? I mean completely vote based . Of course that the cabal immortal should be involved but only if there is something bad like breaking rules or sorting things out?

[Gifnab]

Just now, the_nightmare said:

Thank you for the kind reply and explanation . Is it not ok if we just make the cabals player ran again? I mean completely vote based . Of course that the cabal immortal should be involved but only if there is something bad like breaking rules or sorting things out?

Player run cabals in 2.0 were rife with OOC cliques and cheating. I do not see us going back to that system. We've already made it so that Elders can promote to Veteran and Leaders can promote to Trusted, and both can "clan allow" so people can apply for induction into the cabal, and I feel like that's a pretty fair compromise, honestly.

[the_nightmare]

12 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

Player run cabals in 2.0 were rife with OOC cliques and cheating. I do not see us going back to that system. We've already made it so that Elders can promote to Veteran and Leaders can promote to Trusted, and both can "clan allow" so people can apply for induction into the cabal, and I feel like that's a pretty fair compromise, honestly.

Right now the game is more OOC than ever was. About the cheating - the cabal immortal is there for a reason. If you feel like listening to your player base is a compromise there is no point to talk at all. 

[Gifnab]

4 minutes ago, the_nightmare said:

Right now the game is more OOC than ever was. About the cheating - the cabal immortal is there for a reason. If you feel like listening to your player base is a compromise there is no point to talk at all. 

That is not a fair interpretation of what I said. My use of the term compromise is meant to describe a balance between the player run cabals of 2.0 and the full imm-led cabals that existed for most of 3.0 -- it has nothing to do with a willingness to listen to or engage the playerbase for feedback.

Also, the argument that the game is "more OOC than it ever was" is not a good supporting argument for why we should make cabals fully player run. If anything, it is exactly why we shouldn't.

That said, if you do want a fully player-led cabal experience, the CHURCH cabal has automated inductions and promotions.

[the_nightmare]

2 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

That is not a fair interpretation of what I said. My use of the term compromise is meant to describe a balance between the player run cabals of 2.0 and the full imm-led cabals that existed for most of 3.0 -- it has nothing to do with a willingness to listen to or engage the playerbase for feedback.

Also, the argument that the game is "more OOC than it ever was" is not a good supporting argument for why we should make cabals fully player run. If anything, it is exactly why we shouldn't.

That said, if you do want a fully player-led cabal experience, the CHURCH cabal has automated inductions and promotions.

I don't want to play automated cabals, I want to get involved let's say in  a cabal that my teammates decide if I am worthy for a promotion or not. Because my teammates know me best. They know my wins or looses, they can see my RP and effort too!- not the Immortal that have 1000 other things to do or that is absent for a week.

[tassinvegeta]

55 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

1) I specifically stated it was an extreme example. If you don't like where the line is drawn now, where do you suggest moving it to? Personally, I disagree with automating promotions up to Trusted, and I certainly disagree with removing mandatory descriptions (with desc checks) or automating q-stuff. If we were going to automate q-stuff, then we may as well make them base selections, at which point there is a whole other balance consideration as to how we can justify them being more powerful than the base selections.

1. Ok that's fine, you don't agree with automating those things. I actually feel the same way. How about instead we compromise with things that have been suggested by others for awhile now? Like creating a tangible goal based system that characters must reach to obtain these rewards. Or create a time based system where they get autopromo'd if the timer is reached (imms can promo earlier if they see fit. But since they're human and aren't around the character won't fall through the cracks). Or a combination of both where if they reach these tangible goals within that timeframe they get that reward. If they don't reach them without that timeframe they have to rely upon Immortals for that reward (the way it is now). Anything to at least experiment than keeping the status quo. I mean what's the worst that can happen? We can always roll back changes...

55 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

2) If we made decisions about anything related to FL -- RP direction, content difficulty, character progression timelines, etc. -- based on the amount of hours the most hardcore players can dedicate, we would have three players that clock 100 hours a week and nobody else, because it would be absolutely impossible to keep up otherwise.

It is absolutely reasonable, and even expected, that an individual player will want the game state to most closely relate to their personal situation and habits. It is the job of the staff to weigh that against the personal situation and habits of the other players as well.

You really think players clocking 100 hours a week is a bad thing? That sounds like a successful game to me. Sounds like how the old days of FL was. Even if this was a concern there are ceiling caps that should help prevent the hardcore gamer from always having an unfair advantage against the casual. Isn't this why we have eq and non eq dependant classes? A bounty system? Cabalmates/Teamwork? That's why things like E/L/Tatoo's should have other requirements outside of time. Having a larger player base also helps balance this out.

55 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

If you are basing your actions and feelings regarding FL today on FL 5-10 years (or even 1-2 years ago) then I don't see how we can possibly reach a place of agreement on this. If the staff tells you, "If you want a tattoo, apply for it" and your response is "I don't feel comfortable applying for a tattoo, Viri or Crypt would have slain me for that", what else can you reasonably expect us to do?

The game has changed. Times have changed. The staff has changed. And we all acknowledge that we can continue to do better, and are working constantly toward doing just that. How is it fair to expect us to progress, move forward, and do better if you're just going to keep focusing on the past?

Donovan, Gordy Strawvinsky, and Lecitus Khan a current character. I applied for a tattoo twice, something else 2-3 times before it finally got approved which I mentioned to you ig. Also thanks to you I'm sure. I believe the current consensus is that most don't know whether to apply or not. The time I did get a tattoo I applied because a player recommended I should.

55 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

1) Players very seldom have waited the amount of real life time that they feel like they've waited. Every single immortal -- every. single. immortal. myself included -- has gotten a discord DM, or been tagged in a prayer post, asking why a player's XYZ application hasn't been approved yet, they've been waiting for almost two weeks, etc. And then we go and check the date on the application and it turns out it's been four days. There is definitely a skewed sense of time when you are waiting for something, and we get that. But sometimes you just have to wait. God forbid the Avatar immortal want to roleplay with a new avatar before making them one of his/her chosen, right? 😛

This may or may not be true. But isn't it a better idea not to word things this way? Being a newcomer to the staff and implying that others don't know what they're talking about. That the experiences they've had aren't reality. Again not saying you're incorrect as I may have been prone to this in the past myself.

55 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

Now, the natural response here is likely to be: "But did you tell me that I wasn't getting promoted because I ganged somebody?" Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Sometimes we watch and wait to see if it was a one-off occurrence or a pattern. Other times we'll pull you up to have a chat. For the latter, it seldom goes well -- either the person gets defensive and angry, or they accept the talking to and then move on without changing the behavior. Either way, none of these options are conducive to setting a standard and rewarding people that adhere to/exceed it.

You're right. But sometimes theirs a third result where the Immortal is mistaken and sometimes theirs a fourth where the player learns, is encouraged and do see the error of there ways and change there behavior. Imho the game, player and immortal alike benefit from this. We should all strive for this latter result.

55 minutes ago, Gifnab said:

I don't know what you expect me to do with this or how I can possibly respond to it constructively.

We are acutely aware of the condition of our playerbase. We are doing everything we reasonably can, as a team of volunteers and people that love this game and the community, to make things better while keeping the core of FL's identity intact. But it's not going to happen overnight and you aren't going to like every change, every bug fix, every content addition... it's just not going to happen.

We are doing what we can. We are open to feedback and suggestions. And we are busting our asses to make the game better. If you can't see that, don't want to believe it, or generally don't care... then nothing else I can possibly say on the subject matters.

I probably don't say it enough but I think you're doing great! I mentioned this before but you're the reason I decided to try again. I only wanted to point out that theirs plenty of info out there already on the issues and possible solutions. Do you have access to older threats on the forums by chance? For instance I started a thread about something related to my zerk. Then suggested that the issue with stone golems being too large of a determining factor in wins/losses and can be mitigated by allowing the swing ability to be toggleable. No reply yet. I mean, I never been in a situation where I'm considering asking the Immortals to remove one of my skills. That's how bad it is after recent changes of mine lol. I think many of us actually WANT to help. Please don't think that we don't. And again you actually encouraged me to participate on the forums again. That says something right? Lol. 

 

[Seravin]

Personally the gatekeeping at this point feels like the imms are making sure I’m playing the game the ‘right’ way rather than just encouraging play. 
 

There’s no right or wrong rp, but it certainly feels like if I don’t conform to an archetype my progress is very stunted. 

[Gifnab]

19 hours ago, tassinvegeta said:

1. Ok that's fine, you don't agree with automating those things. I actually feel the same way. How about instead we compromise with things that have been suggested by others for awhile now? Like creating a tangible goal based system that characters must reach to obtain these rewards. Or create a time based system where they get autopromo'd if the timer is reached (imms can promo earlier if they see fit. But since they're human and aren't around the character won't fall through the cracks). Or a combination of both where if they reach these tangible goals within that timeframe they get that reward. If they don't reach them without that timeframe they have to rely upon Immortals for that reward (the way it is now). Anything to at least experiment than keeping the status quo. I mean what's the worst that can happen? We can always roll back changes...

You really think players clocking 100 hours a week is a bad thing? That sounds like a successful game to me. Sounds like how the old days of FL was. Even if this was a concern there are ceiling caps that should help prevent the hardcore gamer from always having an unfair advantage against the casual. Isn't this why we have eq and non eq dependant classes? A bounty system? Cabalmates/Teamwork? That's why things like E/L/Tatoo's should have other requirements outside of time. Having a larger player base also helps balance this out.

Donovan, Gordy Strawvinsky, and Lecitus Khan a current character. I applied for a tattoo twice, something else 2-3 times before it finally got approved which I mentioned to you ig. Also thanks to you I'm sure. I believe the current consensus is that most don't know whether to apply or not. The time I did get a tattoo I applied because a player recommended I should.

This may or may not be true. But isn't it a better idea not to word things this way? Being a newcomer to the staff and implying that others don't know what they're talking about. That the experiences they've had aren't reality. Again not saying you're incorrect as I may have been prone to this in the past myself.

You're right. But sometimes theirs a third result where the Immortal is mistaken and sometimes theirs a fourth where the player learns, is encouraged and do see the error of there ways and change there behavior. Imho the game, player and immortal alike benefit from this. We should all strive for this latter result.

I probably don't say it enough but I think you're doing great! I mentioned this before but you're the reason I decided to try again. I only wanted to point out that theirs plenty of info out there already on the issues and possible solutions. Do you have access to older threats on the forums by chance? For instance I started a thread about something related to my zerk. Then suggested that the issue with stone golems being too large of a determining factor in wins/losses and can be mitigated by allowing the swing ability to be toggleable. No reply yet. I mean, I never been in a situation where I'm considering asking the Immortals to remove one of my skills. That's how bad it is after recent changes of mine lol. I think many of us actually WANT to help. Please don't think that we don't. And again you actually encouraged me to participate on the forums again. That says something right? Lol. 

 

I'm just going to respond in order of your paragraphs to spare myself some quote/post formatting.

We are currently working on a variation of the cabal promotion system for the Church cabal. That will very likely serve as a pilot for how this can work in other cabals, and how it will turn out. I don't necessarily expect a sweeping change to be made where automatic promotions are suddenly available in every cabal. We're always open to more ideas on this topic, but just as we are prepared to accept good ideas that we think will work for the playerbase in the big picture, we also need players to be willing to accept that not every idea will meet that criteria. There are perfectly good, perfectly valid reasons to automate cabal promotions. There are also perfectly good, perfectly valid reasons NOT to automate cabal promotions. We do our best to weigh the former against the latter, and come up with a balanced decision that's in the best interest of the game/playerbase.

No, I do not think players clocking 100 hours a week is a bad thing. Not at all. I wish all of you did, and that we had another 50 players doing the same besides. But the reality is that 100 hours equals a week of playtime for one person, a month of playtime for another, and 3-4 months of playtime for another. The game always has been and, in my opinion, should continue to be accessible to all players, regardless of how much time they're able to commit.

Allow me to help settle this, then. Apply. For. What. You. Want. The only way we know you want something is if you ask for it. Can you get stuff without applying for it? Sure. But it's definitely going to be considered faster if we have an app to look at so that the whole staff is on the same page and can discuss who's up for what.

I am not trying to dismiss anyone's experiences or the validity thereof. But I do think it is important, as we very often hold our tongues in these situations, to note that a character's interpretation (or public representation) of why they didn't get a promotion may not always be a complete/accurate picture of the reason they didn't get a promotion. I do agree that we should strive for everyone to learn from every experience, both good and bad. That is the goal, for certain. But it doesn't always happen. Doesn't mean we can't work toward it.

Finally, I do often read back and review older threads when they're related to a current issue. As for prayer threads -- if you aren't getting a response, there are a couple potential reasons:

1) We're discussing something and don't have a decision yet.
2) We have reached a decision but haven't implemented it yet.
3) We overlooked the thread, or we read it but forgot to reply.

In all of these cases, if we haven't updated you on your request, the best thing you can do is bump the thread. Not after 30 minutes. Not even after 24-48 hours. But if you haven't heard back from us AT ALL in 2-3 days (and it's NOT a major holiday i.e. Christmas), then bump the thread.