Healer Knights - Limited to much?

[tonnix]

So today while I had an hour and half break at a shipping dock, I jumped on my healer Knight. During which time, two Nexus are on and sending armies to take areas... all I could do was slow them down, since I as a healer I am unable to go after their standard while they are off in Gear collecting gear. They finish up, one comes and kills me, the other attacks the Standard. Now that I've been killed, I am unable to defend the Standard as both of them are protected by the Gods when I try to dispel them while they fight the Cabal guardian and I am unable to seek them out or engage a fight as restricted by Healer rules... think I am going to retire the healer as a good learning character on new gears on returning to the lands, but absolutely not a good choice for a cabal character.

 

[Lexi]

Of course you can take their standard as a healer.

EDIT:
I was way wrong on this.

[Dale]

Sounds like you were trying to attack them while still being a ghost.  Which in this situation sounds like the best because they can both attack you at the standard.  But you are allowed to defend.  Also remember as a knight your flag doesn't show until you enter the command AUTOCABAL.  If you could have just hid your affiliation and not alerted them to your knighthood they might not have attacked and you could have played the pacifist game and got your hours.  And make them work for it, you're a healer!  Gate out to a safe spot, I suggest the observer guy.  This is a very difficult area to get to quickly.  Also summoning a mob to gate back to later is a huge advantage no other class gets.  If you don't want to attack them when they come to take your standard you can heal it and just annoy them then leave and come back on the fly.  Always gate away at 50% to 30% hp if you can then come back full.

[tonnix]

I have read of healers being punished for taking the Nexus standard as it's an aggressive act.

[egreir]

I believe the rule of thumb is if there is a PRAETORIAN on,t hey take it.  If you are the only Knight on as a sigil/healer, you can take it.

 

@Immortals can clarify

[Anume]

Healers should not be agressive. If they are attacked, they of course can defend themselves though. This includes retrieving. It is extremly easy to frustrate your enemies as a healer by just gating in near the nexus cabal (learn about mobs there), attack the altar, get the standard, gate back to the chasm, let them run all over the place and go through the frustrating task of getting the standard again just to repeat. 

I agree with what was said above that you should flee and gate away early and then just return. Learn which mobs are where. With vengeance and divine retribution you can be a real pain just standing there dispelling. Unless they are about to die, you should flee to heal though and not heal in combat (not sure if you are doing this, but many healers do).

As to offensively taking the Nexus standard if there is not an undead Nexian around, that is very borderline. I'd chat to my cabal imm about doing that first.

You can also be aggressive against anything undead. There are a lot of undead right now. If there are any Nexian undead, you can also attack the cabal (gain the standard) to force them to come defend.

[Lloth]

20 minutes ago, Anume said:

As to offensively taking the Nexus standard if there is not an undead Nexian around, that is very borderline. I'd chat to my cabal imm about doing that first.

Just to highlight:

Recovering your standard is fine. That's defense, not offense. They are only limited in going for the Nexus standard (barring an undead nexus being on with no praetorian online).

[tonnix]

2 hours ago, Lloth said:

Just to highlight:

Recovering your standard is fine. That's defense, not offense. They are only limited in going for the Nexus standard (barring an undead nexus being on with no praetorian online).

That's the double jeopardy of the whole thing. If I stand around and wait for them to take my standard before going after it to cover it, then it's failure to RP the healer in that I allowed the Knight to fall and the standard taken. If an Avian and Duegar Nexus are on, and sending armies to conquer cities and kill crusaders, then as a healer I have no option but to basically stand by and do nothing except send more crusaders to die as I can't produce armies as fast as two commanders can, and ultimately allowing towns and areas fall while a possible course of action could have been taken, but wasn't taken, due to rules. No undead, two Nexus, and a Healer Knight is powerless unless attacked directly. As far as gating to near the Nexus, it would do absolutely no good, as they know that unless an undead is on, I cannot go after their Standard, and it's just a bluff by being in the area, and they ignore me and go after my own Standard instead or continue to send armies I can't contain. This rule concerning Healer Knights really needs to be considered I believe. As a Healer of Compassion, it would seem suitable for me to go after a Nexus Standard if it means that I can prevent an area from being over taken by armies and save innocent lives from suffering at the hands of the demon hordes that storm through the area. Doesn't seem very compassionate to stand by and wait for them to attack me or try to chase them down once they've acquired our Standard.

[Kassieti]

There is nothing saying you can't defend your standard; that you just have to sit there and watch them take it.  Sanctuary, armor, shield, heal that thing.  If they attack you too, have at them.

[mya]

Isn't the Nexus standard held by an Abomination, which is undead/unnatural?

[Kassieti]

Unnatural yes, undead no.

Even if it were undead, the bigger picture is it's an aggression against all of Nexus when you attack their home.

[Lexi]

Aren't all of Nexus's powers demonic in nature?

[English lad]

3 hours ago, Lexi said:

Aren't all of Nexus's powers demonic in nature?

Healers have an issue with Undead - not demons.  But in general I agree with the tone of this thread, Healers have way to much restriction on them, and have done so for years.  They used to be absolute monsters in PVP, which is why they were restricted.  They got toned multiple times over the years, but the restrictions didn't get lifted.

['tarako]

I never really understood the forces pacifism in cabal duty. Really makes healers undesirable to play long term.

[Archbishop Monk]

I've seen healers get a little nerfing, but I have seen other classes get more buffs that made healer's less viable.  Necro's, ninja, blademaster's are new.  I think that is why healers are added into the update with clerics/shamans.   I still think they are viable, just not as a learning class anymore.  It would take equipment knowledge and skill to make them viable.  They are hard to kill, but there are too many ways to overcome defensiveness these days.  For everything a healer gets, there is a way to overcome that.  But, their offensive is pretty much capped out and currently, direct offensiveness wins pks. 

Attrition has lagged behind due to too many means to overcome it.  WM consumables for plague/poison.  An amulet that turns an invoker into a sustain class.  I won a few attrition battles while poisoned/plagued because I could outheal the damage with that amulet and restore my mana with mystic tendrils.  Healers never were about offensiveness.  They were about attrition and I'm hoping the upcoming changes keep that balance.