Ophiel X Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 "If the Terrorists laid down their weapons tomorrow, we'd have peace tomorrow in Lebanon, the Gaza, Iraq and Afghanistan." "If Israel laid down their weapons tomorrow, we'd have another Holocaust tomorrow." How can there ever be peace in Gaza as long as they are oppressed and treated like dogs? There is a root cause to the violence, and it stems from the routine oppression and degredation the Palestinians are forced to endure. The day Israel stops killing children, ambulance drivers, innocents who are near assassination bombings, and starts treating Arabs like people is the day there will be peace in Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayesh Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 You mean when they retaliate against suicide bombers who blow up the local bus stop, coffeehouse, and synagogue right? Because those are all military targets right? As said before, one side tries not to harm civilians. The other makes harming civilians their goal. And every nation there, ExDnder, has made clear their position, even those who will tolerate limited relations with Israel to gain a greater toehold in the region. The Palestinian Authority now carries an air of legitimacy with the concessions Israel has made to them. That doesn't ever change their aim of removing the Israeli state from the map. I, for one, believe the course of this region, and the planet for that matter, is already set. There will be no peace because the sons of Ishmael are forever destined to have "their hand against every man, and every man's hand against them" and they have no love whatsoever for the sons of Isaac who they feel stole their birthright. They cannot co-exist because the sons of Ishmael will never let it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiel X Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Israel engages in acts of terrorism just as heinous as their enemies. One single example i'll give is of Israeli soldiers goading Palestinian kids into throwing rocks by insulting them over loudspeaker and then shooting them down like dogs. Both sides are equally to blame, and as long as Israel is the oppressor, the oppressed will fight for their freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 What you misunderstand, Ophiel X, is that Israel has tried to allow the Palestinians freedom of movement throughout Israel. The result has been increased suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks. Israel therefore gave the Palestinians what they wanted. Which was total control over the Gaza. The immediate response of the Palestinians was to dig tunnels under the wall and attack Israeli soldiers. Are there honest Palestinians who just want peace and are being harmed by Israel's policies? Possible, but Israel's policies are reactive. Suicide bombings have dropped enormously as a result of the wall. And to be honest, if you're dumb enough to throw rocks at armed soldiers, no matter what they say? Yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-D&Der Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 And every nation there' date=' ExDnder, has made clear their position, even those who will tolerate limited relations with Israel to gain a greater toehold in the region. The Palestinian Authority now carries an air of legitimacy with the concessions Israel has made to them. That doesn't ever change their aim of removing the Israeli state from the map.[/quote'] Have Egypt and Jordan accepted Isael's right to exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethereal Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 In war there is no right side even though each opponent sees the other as being wrong. When you strip away the reasoning behind the war and the grudges that started it, you are left with rubble, death, devastation and poverty. Perhaps it is being a mother that has changed me, but when I read the stories in the news about the fighting, I suddenly lose sight of the political reasoning and can’t stop myself from focusing on the stories of death, survival and heroism that stem from it. My heart squeezes every time I read of a woman sitting by the bedside of a child screaming in pain from burns that peel their skin away left in a hospital that is almost out of supplies and the mothers that cradle their dead children wailing – I guess it just hits home more now that I can picture any one of those children being my daughter and it makes me want to squeeze her tight to me and never let go. Seeing so much death is just so sad – knowing that families are suddenly left without fathers or mothers or brothers or sisters, etc. I guess it’s just one of those things that makes me appreciate all the more the safety this country affords me. I don’t have to worry about whether a bomb will fall of us or if I’ll have to watch my loved ones starve or if it is safe for me to go to the store or not. I complain as much as the next guy about how I hate my job and how embarrassing our president can be and how taxes are so ridiculous – but when it’s all said and done, you really can’t put a price on the feeling of invincibility that each American has that none of those people whether Hezbola or Israeli or otherwise possesses. I do understand that in order for there to be peace there sometimes needs to be war, but it is still difficult to swallow the nasty effects of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 The phrase "in order for there to be peace there sometimes needs to be war" is made true only by mankind's idiocy and inability to cooperate and co-exist. Its the nature of almost every civilization to try and impose its laws and beliefs on those around it. Its been the downfall of many civilizations. It caused the holocaust, the crusades, and even modern war. It is, most of the time, religious beliefs. However, not always. If people would learn to accept simple differences and deal with the more important things this world would be alot better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 stupidity should have culled itself from humankind long ago. unfortunately, stupid people keep breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 If people would learn to accept simple differences and deal with the more important things this world would be alot better off. Yes. But that's not going to happen. So war is, while not desireable, inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiel X Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Are there honest Palestinians who just want peace and are being harmed by Israel's policies? Possible POSSIBLE? What a racist thing to say. Palestinians are not subhuman, and not all terrorists. Your ignorance astounds me. I know that hardliner Israelis brought up in the Israeli system view Arabs as subhuman, but I never expected that same view from an educated man abroad. Guess I give humankind too much credit sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-D&Der Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well that will probably be the end of this thread. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbond Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 though 9 pages isnt bad at all. in fact someone probably lost a bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSeeU Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I say why are we still arguing now about this? Unless you live in the aformentioned countries its not your concern and shouldnt ever be unless there are tanks outside of your house. See what religion does to people? It makes them fight over stupid things because someones Gods teachings doesn't agree with another Gods teachings. Then war ensues, its like Maynard says from tool, Don't these talking monkeys know that eden has enough to go around? Obviously not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 So I came back to the forums to announce my final departure from FL, after a summer off and a recent comback things are worse than ever here IMO. How does this relate to this thread, simple. It seems that the high ranked immortals of this mud are intelligent people, who have an understanding of the world and of right and wrong. Chayesh, Behrens, you both seem to know the score. The majority of the pbase from what I see in game and in this thread are ignorant morons who are all self righteous knowitalls. If I am banned for this post, I dont care because I wont be back to find out, but I will give my two cents on the issue. Hezbollah is not the Lebanese government, there are hezbollah members who are part of the lebanese government which explains why they were allowed to form their assault groups within lebanon. Hezbollah claims they are not a terrorist organization, well like many of the sane people pointed out, when a group of people is determined to wipe out another, civilians and all, that is called terror. Israel is not interested in killing every arab and muslim who walks the face of this earth, but given a chance the fanatic muslims would all rejoice at the eradication of Israel. The leader of hezbollah himself said he would not rest until the infidels (israelis) were all killed. How can a country not take this threat seriously? They started lobbing rockets into Haifa for gods sake, purely to kill civilians. Lebanon does not have a government strong enough to stop it, the UN is so weak it can do nothing but issue orders that get ignored, Israel had no choice but to create a buffer zone. The reason America is pro-Israel is because after 9/11 americans finnaly GET terrorism. Now they see what Israelies have been dealing with at close range for ever. Someone brought up Palestine, and if you dont understand why Israelies treat them like they do, it is not hard to get, kill them before they kill you. The other arab states could care less for the palestinians, there is more than enough land to give them a state of their own, israel is small enough, but as long as palestinians have no home they can be insenced into blaming israel and continue the never ending suicide bombings. Everytime Israel does negotiate something for peace it lasts hardly any time at all before the fanatic muslims want more and continue to terrorise. How can you be diplomatic with people who dont value life? The difference between Israelies and the arabs around them is that the arabs dont care how many of their own die as long as Israel is wiped out. The reason nukes didnt get launched during the cold war is because both governments cared for the life of their people, if the arabs had a nuke they would use it right away vs israel regardless of how many casualties it caused of their own nearby. You can not reason with a psycho, and these backwards stone age countries who still havent seperated church from state will remain in the stone age until they wake up and smell the coffee. Thankfully their tech lack is what enables Israel to defend itself with air superiority and better overall military. The arabs are filthy rich from the oil money, and the middle east (outside israel) has one of the biggest discrepancies between the rich and poor in the world. If these fanatic muslims are such great people why are their masses poor and crazy? Is it because Israel oppresses them? get real, they oppress themselves. These people wake up every morning and start hating. They hate israel, they hade america, the hate the whole western world, so why do they have so many sympathisers here? Did you learn nothing from 9/11? Muslim fanatics are like vicious dogs, they are either at your heel or at your throat, this is why you need to rule them with force. Democracy doesnt work in a country who can only be ruled by fear, this is why they have one dictator after another, with the occasional fulminating iotola inbetween. Sure many countries could help to make peace, but they have no spines, the europeans are afraid because of the demgraphic, they have so many muslims in their countries, outbreeding the europeans, they fear local uprising if they step in and take a side. America is the only country with the balls left to back Israel because depsite all the politics of oil, there is still an understanding of right and wrong. As long as the arab people are kept in the stone age with only one book to read and women being completely second class they will never modernize and never stop. It is sad for the lebanese who are caught in the crossfire I agree, but Israel has no choice, they will not stand around and get rocketed without doing anything. The second syria or iran steps in, then more countries will get involved, so those two may stay out for now, but it is clear they are funding hezbollah. The only good thing about hezbollah is yes they have money and they provide infrastructure to their people, education (for what its worth) and hospitals etc. But they also breed hate towards the west and if left unchecked they would destroy it. Israel has the right to exist in peace, like any other country, and yes, this is self defense. Since the USA went to the middle east after 9/11 has there been one terrorist act on american soil? No, why? because the brave soldiers are taking the heat now so the civilians can sit safely here and badmouth them, sympathizing with the very people who would kill you in a second if they could. I could go on for longer, but you get the point. I am pro Israel, and anti-muslim fanatic. Oh and btw, a for China the soon to be world power, you can bet your life that if there was any terrorism from fanatic muslims on chinese soil they would put together an army so fast and without hesitation wipe out ever muslim they could get their hands on, these fanatics are lucky they are dealing with the west, who are actually soft compared to the asians. bah, have a nice life ya'll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGuy Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 are there palestinians at asll, since there has never existed a nation named "palestine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekky Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 That was certainly a useless flame-fest, Mister E. You didn't outline one point other than Arabs are backwards, rabid dogs who want to kill the whole world. Everyone reacts with such outrage at Tindal's view points (see the Munich thread), let's see if that shoe fits when it's Muslims who're being trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfdude Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 So I came back to the forums to announce my final departure from FL, after a summer off and a recent comback things are worse than ever here IMO. How does this relate to this thread, simple. It seems that the high ranked immortals of this mud are intelligent people, who have an understanding of the world and of right and wrong. Chayesh, Behrens, you both seem to know the score. The majority of the pbase from what I see in game and in this thread are ignorant morons who are all self righteous knowitalls. If I am banned for this post, I dont care because I wont be back to find out, but I will give my two cents on the issue. Hezbollah is not the Lebanese government, there are hezbollah members who are part of the lebanese government which explains why they were allowed to form their assault groups within lebanon. Hezbollah claims they are not a terrorist organization, well like many of the sane people pointed out, when a group of people is determined to wipe out another, civilians and all, that is called terror. Israel is not interested in killing every arab and muslim who walks the face of this earth, but given a chance the fanatic muslims would all rejoice at the eradication of Israel. The leader of hezbollah himself said he would not rest until the infidels (israelis) were all killed. How can a country not take this threat seriously? They started lobbing rockets into Haifa for gods sake, purely to kill civilians. Lebanon does not have a government strong enough to stop it, the UN is so weak it can do nothing but issue orders that get ignored, Israel had no choice but to create a buffer zone. The reason America is pro-Israel is because after 9/11 americans finnaly GET terrorism. Now they see what Israelies have been dealing with at close range for ever. Someone brought up Palestine, and if you dont understand why Israelies treat them like they do, it is not hard to get, kill them before they kill you. The other arab states could care less for the palestinians, there is more than enough land to give them a state of their own, israel is small enough, but as long as palestinians have no home they can be insenced into blaming israel and continue the never ending suicide bombings. Everytime Israel does negotiate something for peace it lasts hardly any time at all before the fanatic muslims want more and continue to terrorise. How can you be diplomatic with people who dont value life? The difference between Israelies and the arabs around them is that the arabs dont care how many of their own die as long as Israel is wiped out. The reason nukes didnt get launched during the cold war is because both governments cared for the life of their people, if the arabs had a nuke they would use it right away vs israel regardless of how many casualties it caused of their own nearby. You can not reason with a psycho, and these backwards stone age countries who still havent seperated church from state will remain in the stone age until they wake up and smell the coffee. Thankfully their tech lack is what enables Israel to defend itself with air superiority and better overall military. The arabs are filthy rich from the oil money, and the middle east (outside israel) has one of the biggest discrepancies between the rich and poor in the world. If these fanatic muslims are such great people why are their masses poor and crazy? Is it because Israel oppresses them? get real, they oppress themselves. These people wake up every morning and start hating. They hate israel, they hade america, the hate the whole western world, so why do they have so many sympathisers here? Did you learn nothing from 9/11? Muslim fanatics are like vicious dogs, they are either at your heel or at your throat, this is why you need to rule them with force. Democracy doesnt work in a country who can only be ruled by fear, this is why they have one dictator after another, with the occasional fulminating iotola inbetween. Sure many countries could help to make peace, but they have no spines, the europeans are afraid because of the demgraphic, they have so many muslims in their countries, outbreeding the europeans, they fear local uprising if they step in and take a side. America is the only country with the balls left to back Israel because depsite all the politics of oil, there is still an understanding of right and wrong. As long as the arab people are kept in the stone age with only one book to read and women being completely second class they will never modernize and never stop. It is sad for the lebanese who are caught in the crossfire I agree, but Israel has no choice, they will not stand around and get rocketed without doing anything. The second syria or iran steps in, then more countries will get involved, so those two may stay out for now, but it is clear they are funding hezbollah. The only good thing about hezbollah is yes they have money and they provide infrastructure to their people, education (for what its worth) and hospitals etc. But they also breed hate towards the west and if left unchecked they would destroy it. Israel has the right to exist in peace, like any other country, and yes, this is self defense. Since the USA went to the middle east after 9/11 has there been one terrorist act on american soil? No, why? because the brave soldiers are taking the heat now so the civilians can sit safely here and badmouth them, sympathizing with the very people who would kill you in a second if they could. I could go on for longer, but you get the point. I am pro Israel, and anti-muslim fanatic. Oh and btw, a for China the soon to be world power, you can bet your life that if there was any terrorism from fanatic muslims on chinese soil they would put together an army so fast and without hesitation wipe out ever muslim they could get their hands on, these fanatics are lucky they are dealing with the west, who are actually soft compared to the asians. bah, have a nice life ya'll haha damn bro your a douchebag, your calling everyone else a "ignorant morons who are all self righteous knowitalls" and you just described yourself. I didn't even post in this thread but I call it like I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirn Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I think canadians should not really voice opinions until they get a real country. This is an American mud isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSeeU Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 thats just wrong... Your only adding fuel to the fire man, grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayesh Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well...I think it's time this thread went away. One more reply from me: Ophiel, when I see a parade of "Palestinian" people including old men, women, or children dancing in the streets when Israeli men, women, and children are murdered for doing nothing more than grabbing a bagel with their morning coffee, it doesn't lend much weight to the thought that they are a peace loving people seeking aid. Also, nowhere did Behrens say anything racist about them. Simply, evidence seems to support the fact that they seem celebrate the death of Israelis and Americans and march the streets preaching the praises of terrorist organizations. Hell, I hope someday all terrorists are wiped from the face of the earth, but you don't see me dancing in the street when they are. That's just sick and morbid. Also, you might try reading the Koran some time. You might find it eye opening. I apologize for not letting you, or anyone else, respond to my post but I'm shutting this down now for everyone's benefit. Lockizzled. PS...Mister E, while I agree with you in some respects (not all), you're still gonna have a little forum break to cool down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchaeius Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 10 pages. That has to be a record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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