2 minutes ago, Unknown Brother said:
I'd take the Wm E skill over the savant one.. And the council one..
Firstly, which WM E ability are you taling about? It would be nice to specify whether you mean Gladiator or Barbarian.
Barbarian's is OK. Gladiator's is crap. I would take Temporum's E over Gladiators any day. I've gotten kills thanks to it.
I was referring to the glad one, and the mysterium one. Mysterium E was shit, like... Useless unless very specific situations. Council one only (to my limited knowledge on it) protects me from two skills that don't even really bother me.
Not all cabal skills at the same cabal rank are equal to each other, nor should they be. This reminds me of a discussion with Trick some time ago. Anyone would take forms over praet styles for example or also the Nexus T skills over the Knights'. Knight weapons also suck compared to Nexus weapons (at least unless you are undead, then they hurt at E rank as hell, before that you can just ignore them).
While I don't agree with F0xx that serks can only haymaker, he's got it right that normal class skills should not be compared to cabal skills, esp. concerning landing rate.
I believe the auto-disarm fires too often. If it were reduced even a little bit, I think it would be fine. I’ve provided logs of how reliable it is on prayer some time ago as Skree.
10 minutes ago, Anume said:
Not all cabal skills at the same cabal rank are equal to each other, nor should they be.
Agreed, although I do feel they should be looked at as a whole to at least add something to your arsenal. It's pretty difficult and time consuming to get elder, and a lackluster ability is boring for the time invested in a lot of cases.
Edit: In my case anyway, I was pretty dissapointed fighting several Wm solo with an ability at elder that only affects mages.
4 minutes ago, Anume said:
Not all cabal skills at the same cabal rank are equal to each other, nor should they be. This reminds me of a discussion with Trick some time ago. Anyone would take forms over praet styles for example or also the Nexus T skills over the Knights'. Knight weapons also suck compared to Nexus weapons (at least unless you are undead, then they hurt at E rank as hell, before that you can just ignore them).
While you are right on many points, the way I look balance is at the peak of a power.
If a character is a Leader, is the power his cabal probides generally similar to the power other cabals provide?
Take praetorian for example and compared it to Gladiator.
A praetorian at L has a wide array of useful skills (and weapons).
They have the best weapon in the game, second only to living weapons. They have vanguard, autodiasrm (that fires in he middle of the round and overcomes curses), autoheal, crazy buffs in the form of stand ground.
On the other hand Gladiators have some nice things too - Forms (which some of the weapons' forms are super strong) and auto dirt. Pathfinding is useful. Their autodisarm can be blocked with noremove. Stance has some pros and cons. Generally, a gladiator's strenght goes up to T. He doesn't gain much from E and L. And once again, gladiators just can't use consumables, uncluding such that grant protection. This is HUGE. If you are evil/good and fighting the opposite align, that's almost as huge as fighting without aura.
I've fought plenty of Knight E / Ls on my past Nexians (Askarran / Purikant / Thulgan). I do not think the Knight E skill is overpowered. If you get disarmed, you can rewield, you just need not to spam. If it gets nexus stuffed, you might as well throw it away bc it's ruined and if you are unlucky, you will not even realize it's happened. The auto disarm is really evil only when you are fighting a sader or god forbid a sader L with a vanguard, else you are fine if you just highlight it.
And their weapon are still inferior to Nexus weapons even at L, as you cannot change the damage noun IMO. I'd take selectable vuln damage over a little healing any time.
At E, I think Nexus and Knight are about equal. At L the Knight used to be a lot more scary bc of insane vanguard hp, which we have reduced a while ago however. So I think both are quite equally balanced now.
This was more about WM - Knight though I think. If we go compare cabal skills, we should probably look at WM - Savant though as that is the hardcoded enemy cabal.
@Keshan
I landed a good amount of haymakers on you today true but overall I definitely dont lant 90%. That being said you would still have to majorly mess up for me to kill you and in all our fights I have never come close to killing you.
On the other hand you have killed me twice and in our fights things can very easily turn south for me very quickly.
-Berston
Anonymous poster hash: 3dc47...1b7
3 minutes ago, Anume said:
If it gets nexus stuffed, you might as well throw it away bc it's ruine
The nexus stuff can be countered though, so it doesn't matter.
The praetorian stuff, if it gets you while you are lagged, you're done most of the time. You mentioned saders, but any heavy hitter that can lag will punish you hard for it.
I'll take the praetorian thing any day over the nexus. If it doesn't have a counter, it's better. MUCH better.
Having just been Reaver Elder, I will GLADLY take Knight Elder over it. Reaver Elder takes some set up and doesn't last very long if you're not working to make it last. And it RARELY lands. Knight Elder lasts for a LONG time and it lands every other round damn near.
Why are you using a polearm vs someone who can autodisarm you... Wear a shield and that battle would have went a lot differently. Also for Keshan, wear a shield to bust his haymaker hand then switch to dual wielding.
I'm not sure if you can enlarge yourself as a human glad but a giant warrior or zerk should be your most dangerous fights. Autodisarm of a noremove weapon plus a slamlock is gay as hell but you have your own version of it, autodisarm plus a haymaker triplock while executing is just as bad.
WM forms hit a lot harder then hellstream, yes if you catch someone completely off guard hellstream will <<< them, forms will *** through sanc while hellstream DISMEMBERS.
Who cares about protection, that's what haymaker is for :)
Its hard to give more battle tactics because the majority of fights are decided within the first 2 rounds, failing X skill while your opponent lands his can dictate the rest of the fight. As seen here, that missed haymaker allowed him to completely lock you up, yet if it would have landed and he dirt kicked it could have been game over for him in just a couple rounds.
Keshan never spams vs me.
He easily flees after every haymaker.
Like I said he would have to royally mess up to die to me which has not come close to happening.
Also no clue where you are getting your forms damage numbers. Most damage I ever did with a mace smash was a MASSACRES through sanc/protection and that was hitting a vuln.
I admit polearm was a bad idea. I was trying it since I got a lucky spin on my monk wheel for prot good.
Usually I do use the shield but again if I get lag locked he can disarm it easily and keep bashing me.
Shield is my best bet vs giants usually. But it's lame as hell that I need to use a shield vs good/evil mages just to keep the damage reduction on par with them.
Haymaker also does not remove "protection" or it's equivalent against my toughest vendettas. So your claiming I don't need protection is kinda silly.
-Berston
Anonymous poster hash: 3dc47...1b7
2 hours ago, f0xx said:
How can one post even contain so much misinformation....
Temporums have some abilities that are directly aimed at disabling and weakening gladiators from fighting. Reverse time and temporal storm are BRUTAL. Temporal storm on its own is one of the best abilities in the game.
Their cabal items are quite nice too.
Gladiators on the other hand have undispellable stance which costs a ton of mana to actiavate and drops when you go to sleep so you can't use your superior regen.
I was just giving my opinion. There has to be a reason why Savant is basically always empty, right?
I've found that the best way to defeat a mage/communer is to significantly out damage them. Having burst damage from forms and being able to nullify dispel magic for the most part are pretty significant contributors to being able to do that.
Auto dirt also plays a huge part as you get the advantage of blinding classes without blind fighting without having to commit to the 2 round lag.
I'm not saying that Savant is completely underpowered, just that the match up seems to be weighted towards gladiators.
Yeah that praet E thing is a bit much
koal
Anonymous poster hash: bf9aa...9e4
Its not that the whole skill needs removed or changed, it just needs to happen less often. You find yourself sitting and waiting to flee instead of entering commands because it procs SO MUCH.
49 minutes ago, Fireman said:
Its not that the whole skill needs removed or changed, it just needs to happen less often.
Oh, the irony is fun
27 minutes ago, Lloth said:
Oh, the irony is fun
What's that supposed to mean?
It's a joke.
You said you don't think it needs a change, while suggesting a change (lower chance/rate) in the same sentence.
I meant not a complete overhaul change lol
6 hours ago, Anonymous said:
Keshan never spams vs me.
He easily flees after every haymaker.
Like I said he would have to royally mess up to die to me which has not come close to happening.
Also no clue where you are getting your forms damage numbers. Most damage I ever did with a mace smash was a MASSACRES through sanc/protection and that was hitting a vuln.
I admit polearm was a bad idea. I was trying it since I got a lucky spin on my monk wheel for prot good.
Usually I do use the shield but again if I get lag locked he can disarm it easily and keep bashing me.
Shield is my best bet vs giants usually. But it's lame as hell that I need to use a shield vs good/evil mages just to keep the damage reduction on par with them.
Haymaker also does not remove "protection" or it's equivalent against my toughest vendettas. So your claiming I don't need protection is kinda silly.
-Berston
Anonymous poster hash: 3dc47...1b7
I played Horneka and Hoofka, and aside from purposely condeathing Hoofka vs Irant with the purpose of learning how to fight that class , Horneka had like 2 PK deaths. 1 was vs Kotrags bugged out push murder spam and the other was vs Irant when I didn't have my standard and couldn't stop the trip lock as a glad.
Aside from 'play fight challenges' in the ford nobody could touch me, I smashed everyone. My forms damage numbers came from what I was doing to people and haymaker 'should' be able to dispel protection. My basic stats before rage were 55 hr 75 dr, after rage I hit triple digits.
As for Keshan fleeing every time a haymaker lands, save it. Let him dirt = 2 round lag, once he dirts haymaker. He is in for 2 rounds of pain if it lands, if it doesn't you should be dual wielding or using a shield. If duel wielding then trigger a double grip when disarmed to get your two handed into play, else flee and reset. I'm not saying you haven't tried this, it's just what I would do.
The problem with what was done to you was the zero lag to Keshan for removing a cursed weapon, that skill and others like it IMO need to be activated like forms.
Cursed weapons are a false sense of security these days where 3 classes can instantly remove them as well as cabal skills and some strength weakening abilities, these classes are heavily played specificially for this purpose. Cleave zerks, disarm warriors, ninjas, blademasters, even if not many of them the ones that play are very active and prominent.
Anyhow, I'm not a fan of auto skills that dictate battle without strategy, I have a huge beef with the syndicate blinding as well, lol.