Avian Ninja vs Demon BMG - 4 rounds

He's some counter anecdotal evidence and bare in mind I had around 700ac for this fight.

<925/925hp 871/1129m 465/469mv> D 1time 303cps c flashYou create a bright flash of light.Kotrag yells 'Die! Towenaar, you sorcerous dog!'Kotrag avoids the glare.<925/925hp 841/1129m 465/469mv> D 1time 303cps Kotrag fills the room with a cloud of dust.You are blinded!You yell 'Help! someone just threw dust in my eyes!'You sense your blades fade into reality and begin to rotate quickly.Something bobs in the air as it heads towards someone.You fade into existence.Someone parries a scythe's slice.Someone parries a scythe's slash.Something's crush LACERATES someone!Someone parries your attack.<925/925hp 841/1129m 465/469mv> D 1time 303cps Someone parries a scythe's slice.Someone blocks a scythe's slash with his weapon.Someone parries a something's crush.Someone blocks your attack with his weapon.Something's poisoned bite wounds someone.Someone's poisoned bite devastates someone!Someone's poisoned bite mauls someone.Someone's poisoned bite decimates someone!Someone's tsuki strike devastates someone!Someone's poison scratches someone.Someone's poison scratches someone.<925/925hp 841/1129m 465/469mv> D 1time 303cps fleeSomething settles down and returns to you.You flee from combat!You can't see a thing!Someone throws his something and hits you with a few of them.Someone's throw MANGLES you!<841/925hp 841/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps Someone rides in.<841/925hp 841/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by someone!'You sense your blades fade into reality and begin to rotate quickly.Something bobs in the air as it heads towards someone.Something's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.You parry someone's attack.Your Terra shield deflects the attack.You parry someone's attack.Someone's form blurs with speed!Someone's strike misses you.Something deflects someone's attack.Your Terra shield deflects the attack.Someone's tsuki strike wounds you.Someone throws his something and hits you with a few of them.Someone's throw MANGLES you!Towenaar: [===|===|===|---]<702/925hp 841/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps nwhereNo way! You are still fighting!Towenaar: [===|===|===|---]<702/925hp 841/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps You can't see a thing!Towenaar: [===|===|===|---]<702/925hp 841/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps c flashYou create a bright flash of light.Someone avoids the glare.someone cannot be attacked this way.Towenaar: [===|===|===|---]<702/925hp 811/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps Someone parries a scythe's slice.Someone parries a scythe's slash.Someone parries a something's crush.Something takes a vicious swipe at someone's legs!His feet aren't on the ground.Someone dodges your attack.Your Terra shield deflects the attack.Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.You parry someone's attack.Someone's poisoned bite mauls you.Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone's tsuki strike injures you.Towenaar: [===|===|===|---]<662/925hp 811/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps Someone gets something from something.Towenaar: [===|===|===|---]<662/925hp 811/1129m 463/469mv> D 1time 303cps flee10 seconds to tick.Something settles down and returns to you.You flee from combat!You can't see a thing!Someone throws his something and hits you with a couple of them.Someone's throw LACERATES you!<616/925hp 811/1129m 461/469mv> D 1time 303cps Someone rides in.<616/925hp 811/1129m 461/469mv> D 1time 303cps sYou yell 'Help! I am being attacked by someone!'You sense your blades fade into reality and begin to rotate quickly.Something bobs in the air as it heads towards someone.Something's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!Your Terra shield deflects the attack.Someone's poisoned bite mauls you.You parry someone's attack.You parry someone's attack.Someone's poisoned bite devastates you!Someone's tsuki strike grazes you.Someone throws his something and hits you with none of them.Someone's throw misses you.Towenaar: [===|===|=--|---]<513/925hp 811/1129m 461/469mv> D 1time 303cps No way! You are still fighting!Towenaar: [===|===|=--|---]<513/925hp 811/1129m 461/469mv> D 1time 303cps sNo way! You are still fighting!Towenaar: [===|===|=--|---]<513/925hp 811/1129m 461/469mv> D 1time 303cps c flashYou create a bright flash of light.Someone avoids the glare.Towenaar: [===|===|=--|---]<513/925hp 781/1129m 461/469mv> D 1time 303cps Someone blocks a scythe's slice with his weapon.Someone parries a scythe's slash.Someone parries a something's crush.Something takes a vicious swipe at someone's legs!His feet aren't on the ground.Someone dodges your attack.Someone's poisoned bite devastates you!Someone's poisoned bite misses you.You parry someone's attack.Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone's poisoned bite decimates you!Someone's tsuki strike grazes you.Towenaar: [===|===|---|---]<448/925hp 781/1129m 461/469mv> D 1time 303cps Someone utters the words, 'agsplnuahz'.Towenaar: [===|===|---|---]<459/925hp 780/1129m 469/469mv> D 2time 303cps c dispYour scythe's slice decimates someone!Someone blocks a scythe's slash with his weapon.Someone parries a something's crush.Your shocking bite misses someone.You feel poison coursing through your veins.Something's poisoned bite LACERATES you!Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Something deflects someone's attack.Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone's poisoned bite mauls you.Someone's tsuki strike injures you.Towenaar: [===|==-|---|---]<376/925hp 780/1129m 469/469mv> D 2time 303cps You failed.Towenaar: [===|==-|---|---]<376/925hp 765/1129m 469/469mv> D 2time 303cps fleeSomeone utters the words, 'agsplnuahz'.Towenaar: [===|==-|---|---]<376/925hp 765/1129m 469/469mv> D 2time 303cps Someone parries a scythe's slice.Your scythe's slash devastates someone!Someone dodges something's crush.Your shocking bite misses someone.You parry someone's attack.Someone's poisoned bite decimates you!Someone's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!Someone's form blurs with speed!Sharp pain explodes in your torso!Someone's strike wounds you.Someone's poisoned bite maims you!Someone's poisoned bite devastates you!You sure are BLEEDING!Someone's tsuki strike wounds you.You sure are BLEEDING!Towenaar: [===|---|---|---]<208/925hp 765/1129m 469/469mv> D 2time 303cps Something settles down and returns to you.You flee from combat!You can't see a thing!Someone throws his something and hits you with none of them.Someone's throw misses you.<208/925hp 765/1129m 467/469mv> D 2time 303cps ssYou can't see a thing!<208/925hp 765/1129m 465/469mv> D 2time 303cps You can't see a thing!<208/925hp 765/1129m 463/469mv> D 2time 303cps c wordThe Gods have forsaken you.<208/925hp 730/1129m 463/469mv> D 2time 303cps Someone rides in.<208/925hp 730/1129m 463/469mv> D 2time 303cps sYou yell 'Help! I am being attacked by someone!'You sense your blades fade into reality and begin to rotate quickly.Something bobs in the air as it heads towards someone.Something's poisoned bite LACERATES you!You sure are BLEEDING!You parry someone's attack.Someone's form blurs with speed!Sharp pain explodes in your leg!Someone's strike injures you.You sure are BLEEDING!Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone's poisoned bite maims you!You sure are BLEEDING!Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone's tsuki strike wounds you.You sure are BLEEDING!Someone throws his something and hits you with none of them.Someone's throw misses you.Towenaar: [==-|---|---|---]<94/925hp 730/1129m 432/469mv> D 2time 303cps No way! You are still fighting!Someone parries a scythe's slice.Someone blocks a scythe's slash with his weapon.Someone blocks a something's crush with his weapon.Someone blocks a something's crush with his weapon.Someone blocks your attack with his weapon.Someone's poisoned bite devastates you!You sure are BLEEDING!Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone's throat cut scratches you.You sure are BLEEDING!With a deft slice someone gores your throat!Someone's poisoned bite devastates you!You sure are BLEEDING!Someone swings wildly and misses you by a mile.Someone's tsuki strike injures you.You sure are BLEEDING!Towenaar: [=--|---|---|---]<15/925hp 730/1129m 432/469mv> D 2time 303cps c sharpYou create a mass of metal shards and sends them hurling!Your sharpmetal LACERATES someone!Towenaar: [=--|---|---|---]<15/925hp 722/1129m 432/469mv> D 2time 303cps Someone's blood loss scratches you.You sure are BLEEDING!Someone dodges scythe's slice.Someone blocks a scythe's slash with his weapon.Someone blocks a something's crush with his weapon.Someone parries a something's crush.Someone dodges your attack.Something's poisoned bite LACERATES you!You have been mortally wounded!!You manage to completely halt your bleeding.You are too hurt to do anything for a while.

24 minutes ago, Wade said:

If he was an invoker you would of been dead in half the time.

4 / 2 = 2

Are you saying that an invoker can 2 round people?

haha yes, or a destruction psi.

1 hour ago, Fool_Hardy said:

If a moderate, you can wear fewer rares. To be competitive I have found it easier as a moderate to simply wield only non rare weapons . Otherwise, Rem all/ wear demons/ wear all to remove a weapon, can result in too many rares worn and an inability to rewield the rare weapons. Just a problem stumbled on by an old fool.

I hope that enlightens @myrek.

Don't use 'wear all' or 'remove all'. Write a macro/alias to remove just the pieces you need to remove and wear them again specifically. Remove all/wear all will get you in a lot of trouble. One minor trouble is the rare count you mentioned. This will solve your problem and save your life several times in the future.

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Even a cleric can 4 round another cleric, if the stars align perfectly..just ask @Kyzarius :D (qualifying note: Sepahoona beat the crap out of Anamus a lot more than the other way for the record).

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I don't really see the point of disallowing sacrificing in combat. If you want to eat the lag for it, go for it if they give you the opportunity. Why eliminate the tactical option? If you spam, you'll be punished just like if you spam anywhere else.

@Erelei @myrek @Fireman @Lloth I do like the suggestion about bloody sacrificing, but even better if it is applied to the OBJECT rather than the PLAYER. It cleans up odd cases of lowbies sacrificing stuff and various side cases. If the object touched a player, give it a lag to sacrifice. If not, back to no lag. Then you don't have to make an algorithm for value, you can sacrifice mob items quickly, but still slows down the player looting/disarm sacrifice.

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I think ninja SHOULD be squishy. If you caught unaware and don't react well, by all rights, you should fail spectacularly. Rogues should be crafty and careful, and while @f0xx's excellent play of Kotarg proved them to be offensive powerhouses (and from my memory, even the most careful player in the game died at least several times playing the class), they still should require some tactical playing.

If ninja aren't offensive powerhouses, then what else could they be? The only other option in their design would be to make them attrition or back to assassinate only.

This log shows a lack of defensiveness which is justified in rogue design. The fact that it is a bmg exploited stings harder than normal, but like other people have said, many other combinations would have rightfully stomped the ninja harder.

@KyzariusWow. I'd really like to see that. I never pulled that off even when Llyros was casting lvl 55 spells.

2 minutes ago, myrek said:

@KyzariusWow. I'd really like to see that. I never pulled that off even when Llyros was casting lvl 55 spells.

Just do the quick math. 2 rounds = 4 or 5 call lightnings = 150-200x5 damage. More if you throw a hellstream or something to cap it off for the last one. Plus your shields, charmies, whatever.

Hell, I've had an invoker accidentally two round someone when they stumbled into a fight of mine.  Four call lightnings or fireballs as well as a couple explosions from a firestorm?  Definitely possible.

2 minutes ago, Celerity said:

Just do the quick math. 2 rounds = 4 or 5 call lightnings = 150-200x5 damage. More if you throw a hellstream or something to cap it off for the last one. Plus your shields, charmies, whatever.

Not the best example since it can't always be used, but I see your point.

What are your thoughts on the other side of the fight, the ninja's offense? I agree that ninjas and thieves should have to rely on their other abilities. But (assuming that the weapons / hit roll / dam roll weren't garbage) the ninja did practically no damage. If he had been buffed, he could have survived but not won.

How long does study take? Doesn't it take days (in game time)? 

Not trying to stir the pot, I've not experienced a 1-sided loss like this except if I was naked/unequiped or as a caster with my spells down.

I three spelled a demon with Lelleiala.  

Hypnosis.  Singularity, Disintegrate.  

ask @egreir i think it was his.

2 hours ago, Fireman said:

The moment you loot a corpse you get a bloody timer, btw. But I️ guess one person could loot and the other sac

Which is what I was referring to

Vs an unsanced avian, using hurricane. Yeah

Is study around still? I've been kinda unclear about if ninja can still assassinate or not. :umnik: If it follows the old mechanics, it takes about 5 minutes real time for a full study + memorize, assuming good rolls on the study. More often, it takes somewhat longer, maybe 10 or more minutes.

My thoughts on the ninja's offense? I think the ninja could have done a ton more damage if they had more time or better tactics. The battlemage landed stuff first shot and was fighting with every advantage. In a real fight with some length, fired weapons + autothrows will really stack up. Or even just poison alone.

I played a Syndicate drow ninja (Kaylia) that had a fairly mediocre melee output (horrible compared to modern ninja) and could run through anything that couldn't lag me (including elites, such as Zaulael (sp?), @jibber's battlemage --> lich). So, if I was playing a weaker race, with a weaker lore, with a weaker version of ninja against (probably?) a better player and win fairly easily in melee, I think this ninja can do it too. Kaylia probably wasn't as successful as Kotarg though. @f0xx You are setting the bar too high here :P

Completely annihilated by any giant lagger though, so that is where the careful part came into play.

Interestingly @H&R's Virarc (tribunal BATTLEMAGE) caused one of my only deaths, forcing me to mob death in whatever that palace (Gasteride's Fortress?) is called north and east of old Rheydin...getting forgetful here. He landed a faerie fire, blind + ensnare..and I couldn't cure the blind. Eventually ran out the ensnare doing loops blind (easy in Rheydin), but I was bouncing between mobs by the time blind + faerie fire wore off and died. So even a battlemage can kill a ninja, if they are aggressive enough.

Other deaths were to Jibber as Heurajc (sp), ogre berserker warmaster who surprised me and lag locked in a third cabal (he ambushed me at the Tribunal guardian) and Gruudik (Dale?), ogre ranger watcher who killed me in 4 rounds (I was fully prepped, he was fully surprised) -- failed strangle to assassinate, green dragon bash and I was dead before it wore off. That was a frustrating one. :P Plus a couple of "RP" deaths around the time of an RP plot (Mindflayer's Tribunal Grum and some Watcher later).

15 minutes ago, Celerity said:

Is study around still? I've been kinda unclear about if ninja can still assassinate or not. :umnik: If it follows the old mechanics, it takes about 5 minutes real time for a full study + memorize, assuming good rolls on the study. More often, it takes somewhat longer, maybe 10 or more minutes.

Played a ninja on Halloween. There are 2 versions of study now. Wasn't Falcon Eye but it took forever to get 1 study done and the odds of assassination still weren't in my favor. But that system isn't 100% the same as the live version. Study being so slow plus no one ever sitting in town, I'd have guessed that ninjas were much more reliant on (and much more capable at) toe-to-toe melee now.

8 hours ago, Celerity said:

I don't really see the point of disallowing sacrificing in combat. If you want to eat the lag for it, go for it if they give you the opportunity. Why eliminate the tactical option? If you spam, you'll be punished just like if you spam anywhere else.

If Erelei says it's a good change, then it's a good change Cel. No arguing about it.

You can stop now.

This change hasn't been made. It was a suggestion, I commented it was a good idea. There have been other suggestions since, which make sense.

If you'd take time to offer suggestions rather than veiled disagreements, maybe you would have noticed.

16 minutes ago, Erelei said:

You can stop now.

This change hasn't been made. It was a suggestion, I commented it was a good idea. There have been other suggestions since, which make sense.

If you'd take time to offer suggestions rather than veiled disagreements, maybe you would have noticed.

Suggestions about what exactly?

You wanted to make it so people can't sacrifice while in combat. Why? This is a valid tactic and its removal swings balance. I didn't make any suggestion because things are fine as they are now. I simply expressed my disagreement, which you ignored, so I expressed it again. You recently implemented a round of lag for sacrificing after all, which is more than enough of a penalty, and this very log is the result of that specific change.

So to the player of Lylye, if you want to blame someone for your death, blame Erelei, since he was the one to implement that change. But that would be silly, because you died due to your own and very obvious mistake, which was a result of carelessness. Blaming anything else but yourself in such a situation only speaks about one's level of skill.

In the end, if you want to improve, always blame yourself.

I ignore half your posts since you have nothing constructive to say lately.

Not my fault for ignoring an otherwise negative response.

The comment about:

If Erelei says it's a good change, then it's a good change Cel. No arguing about it.

Was uncalled for, and still is. I'm not sure what crawled up your behind, but you let it go now. I have an idea what it is, but if you want to continue your charade of hate, you can take it to the prayer forum. 

Thanks,

21 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

I three spelled a demon with Lelleiala.  

Hypnosis.  Singularity, Disintegrate.  

ask @egreir i think it was his.

Pretty sure my Watcher Psion killed Deykaris Demon DKN with one cast of Singularity. 100-0

He was not sanced and I was a stalker Leader (may not have been L at the time though)

those modifiers could make that possible.  greenheart would add a lot of math.

Why not put the lag on the get ... corpse instead of the sac. Same effect, a lot less annoying for cleaning up stuff.