Got Language?

[Icor]

Alright. I have a few things I’d like to sort out involving language in game that I’m unsure of.

Now, I’m not going to organize this little thread, so I’ll list things as they come to mind.

I’ll just start with clichés. In FL, can someone tell someone else to “go to hell”? Is there a “hell” in Aabahran, or is “hell” just the “rift”, or the “abyss”? What even ARE those places? How about “an apple a day keeps the doctor away”? Replace the word ‘doctor’ with ‘healer’, and that might work. Can you tell someone to “walk in the light of Lysenties”? I mean, everyone can see the first two moons. How about something a little more morbid, “Dyphreties is in your mouth”. Can you use stuff like “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”? I mean, technically, in FL, a beholder is an ugly, one-eyed blob. How about “Big as life” – how big IS life in the Forsaken Lands? Are there a lot of poor people? What about super simple stuff like “Broad daylight”? How often is the day actually bright, and can the night actually be brighter than the day? Is the sky even blue? If not, you can’t possibly say someone has “sky blue” eyes, let alone even use the term “sky blue”. Maybe “ghost blue” would work instead, in that case... then again, what is a ghost?

I have more... But I’ll stop there.

[Acerbity]

I surrender! You're the god of RP, and I just can't compare.

(Yes, those are nice suggestions, I might add a few myself once in a blue moon... I mean.. once in a Lysenties.)

<3 Irpel.

[Icor]

I think there's a tome with a calendar... Lysenties is basically made of diamond or ice or something, so it reflects light really well. According to the FL website, the sun hits Lysenties in a specific way every "Sunday" so that it glows, like, super bright. That'd certainly make things brighter or even hotter on Sunday than any other day.

I dunno, I kinda just want to discuss it. How do we visualize Aabahran, beyond merely picturesque?

[Aulian]

I believe someone once alikened it to a maze with armed rats? thats how I always think about it (love that post btw har har!)

[Anithraril]

Well the sky is red...

[Malchaeius]

Well, FL allows you some room to mix and match these sayings.

Go to hell = "Rot in the Abyss", "Into the Rift with your soul!", "To the Cycle with ye!", "I hope you burn in the nine hells". Remember, you can always make up some kind of evil afterlife. The rift, abyss, and cycle are just a couple of things that exist. They are somewhat different though. I believe most people go into the cycle (save Avatars whose souls can never be tainted). Other goodies will go into the Pillar of Light. Furthermore, Malchaeius and Chayesh have a deal - Demons (and other followers of Discord) cause much pain and death, and in return, Malchaeius gets to choose certain souls to go into the rift to either be tortured for all eternity or be ready to be stuffed into someone's body to make a demon.

Certain phrases like "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is fine. Although it would also be fine for a wise-a$$ to RP that thinks that you literally mean a beholder.

Considering that most people huddle themselves into the cities, think of Aabahran as a place where there is a small class of elites and then peasantry who does not live all that comfortably.

[Zrothum]

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Nothing wrong at all. Many words have multiple meanings.

"Sky blue eyes."

That's an opinionated statement. You can't govern it. If I think the sky looks blue, then I can say I think the sky looks blue.

"Big as life."

Another opinionated statement.

Basically....I don't think anyone has the right to govern what someone says (within the boundaries of sex, racism, blatant OOC, etc. etc.).

A few people here like to think that everyone should RP to their standards and to their rules, and if they don't, then they don't know how to RP. It's pretty lame. Let the person RP how they want to RP. It's their character, it's their time. It's their choice. If they are having fun then that's what it's all about. Maybe they think your RP sucks too.

[Magick]

"Sky blue eyes."

That's an opinionated statement. You can't govern it. If I think the sky looks blue, then I can say I think the sky looks blue.

And what if you're char is colorblind? Hmm. What then? I'll agree with this statement as a basis of perception.

Besides, what IS blue? Hmm. Like trying to define 2. What IS 2? Do you see the arabic numeral? Do you see two apples? The word? Two trains on a track heading for a collision in ____, one leaving boston at 60mph at 4pm on tuesday; the other LA at 80mph at 9:30am on Wenesday? It's an abstract concept that people visualize and relate to in their own fashion.

[Icor]

Basically....I don't think anyone has the right to govern what someone says (within the boundaries of sex, racism, blatant OOC, etc. etc.).

A few people here like to think that everyone should RP to their standards and to their rules, and if they don't, then they don't know how to RP. It's pretty lame. Let the person RP how they want to RP. It's their character, it's their time. It's their choice. If they are having fun then that's what it's all about. Maybe they think your RP sucks too.

I'm not bagging on anyone, now. I just want to discuss it, that's all. And I don't want people to limit what they say or anything, but just point out that in game, characters should govern their own selves and language, because there is certainly a theme in the game. I mean, there's little stuff that kind of gets overlooked, such as, for example, slave trading is legal. Is slave trading driven by racism (which, because there are a ton of races in FL, is a VERY open means to RP - all elves that come from Shasarazade, for example, should hate half-elves), or is it driven purely by greed?

Something as simple as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" really might mean something completely different in the world of FL, simply because we don't have creatures called "Beholders" in our world. It's like saying "beauty is in the eye of the Cobra". Cobras are dangerous creatures. Beholders are dangerous creatures. Would a phrase like that evolve into what it means in our world without ever being linked to the beholder in FL's world, especially when the beholder is probably known to be extremely mysterious?

Oh, and thank you very much Malch'. And thank you Anithraril... If the sky is actually red, that should mean quite a lot. If the sky has ALWAYS been red in FL, or at least since the Cataclysm, people would never say "sky blue". The phrase "sky blue" is just an analogy in our world. If the sky is red in FL, it's a stupid joke.

[WarriorCleric]

Something as simple as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" really might mean something completely different in the world of FL' date=' simply because we don't have creatures called "Beholders" in our world. [b']It's like saying "beauty is in the eye of the Cobra". Cobras are dangerous creatures. Beholders are dangerous creatures. Would a phrase like that evolve into what it means in our world without ever being linked to the beholder in FL's world, especially when the beholder is probably known to be extremely mysterious?

No it's not... because cobra doesn't mean the same thing as a beholder. Why do you think they call them Beholders? What is the definition of beholder, and what does a Beholder look like?

to behold something, is to look at it... a Beholder looks a bit like this:

Perhaps they are called Beholders because they pretty much just look at things?

beauty is in the eye of the beholder doesn't lose it's meaning simply because a monster exists that is called a Beholder, it just allows for some really fun puns.

WC

[Fiere]

I thought dungeons and dragons was a really good movie. Not that that's off topic or anything.

[Icor]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder doesn't lose it's meaning simply because a monster exists that is called a Beholder, it just allows for some really fun puns.

Now wait, forget modern meaning. I never said anything should loose its meaning, I'm implying that certain meanings may have never existed in the first place. I'm concerned about the evolution of the phrase and whether or not varied meanings of the words would have either blended or changed. After nearly 8 centuries of post-Cataclysm language, I think it is possible. Think of one, real world word, like "gay". It used to mean happy, for goodness sake. How long did it take it to change entirely? 60 years? "Eye of the beholder", just by itself alone, refers to a beholder merely by the raw definition of each individual word, seeing that the Beholder's main feature is its one center eye.

I mean common. Do you think that it might just be possible that the people in Val Miran, or the people in ancient Thalos, or WHEREVER, might have created that phrase in honor of the beholder's magic (not to mention the beholder's dangerous gaze, which yes, involves its picturesque eye) rather than as a witty cliché?

[Zrothum]

Anything is possible.

If I tell you, in game, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder....you might could use context clues to realize that I'm not talking about the creature.

If it's said out of the blue, or someother way that your character wouldn't know wtf is going on....then it would be funny to pop up with some witty remark about an ugly beholder not having beauty at all, etc. etc. etc.

[Pali]

In FL, we have dwarves where you can barely understand them, others that are as eloquent as Shakespeare. We have ogres that can barely speak two words, others that will chat your ear off about anything. If you want to start using an expression, start using it.

[Shaun]

That beholder does have beautiful eyes.

[Icor]

Anything is possible.

If I tell you, in game, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

This... is my point: would a character, born and raised in Aabahran, naturally use that particular cliche in that particular way? I think it is quite possible that no one in Aabahran would ever logically use the phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" in the same way we do in the real world. Before your character says something like that, you have to ask yourself "would my character, as a person in Aabahran, say this, and if so, why? What does it actually mean"?

Think of "sly as a fox". Is there a more sly creature in Aabahran? Maybe a Drow or something, I don't know. If so, no one would say "sly as a fox" unless under very special, above-the-norm circumstances. If I were an elf, I would refer to Drow as "sly", perhaps in a distasteful way. Maybe even drow would consider themselves sly.

What about "spill the beans"? Would someone in Aabahran naturally say something like that? Do beans even exist in Aabahran?

How about "strong as an ox"? Strong as an ettin? "Survival of the fittest"? "Sweet as honey"? "Tastes like chicken"? "Want my place in the sun"? How about "What on earth"? If these phrases exist in Aabahran, where did they come from? Why would anyone say them?

[WarriorCleric]

I mean common. Do you think that it might just be possible that the people in Val Miran' date=' or the people in ancient Thalos, or WHEREVER, might have created that phrase in honor of the beholder's magic (not to mention the beholder's dangerous gaze, which yes, involves its picturesque eye) rather than as a witty cliché?[/quote']

No.

I would think, since it uses all traditional words, that it would mean 'from the view of the person doing the looking.' Or 'from that persons perspective'. Unless you rp a character as an idiot, when someone says 'I've got giant feet' do you think it means they chopped off a giants feet and carry them around with him.

You bring up good points with some of those you mentioned, but others are far fetched at best. The phrase beauty is in the eye of the beholder is derieved from plato (I payed attention in philosphey class it seems) to mean that it's as it's seen by the person who sees it. And since FL allows for people to see things in many different ways, it would make sense to me that a phrase like 'from the eye of the beholder' would mean exactly what it does. And it's use to reference the creature would be a pun. After all, Beholders were named after a verb, not the other way around.

WC

[Icor]

I think it's imperative to separate our world and FL's world. What characters say and do defines them, so if you want to feel fully immersed into this world, you have to sorta set some guidelines for yourself that thicken the line between fantasy and reality. Malch's reply, so far, has been the most helpful, when he gave the alternatives to "go to hell", etc.

[Malchaeius]

Really, this is a case by case type of thing, you would have to list every phrase that you are unsure about and then think about it in FL terms. Can you say it in a better way? Would the way that it is said in real life be usable on the MUD?

Certain phrases are just too "modern" to be a part of the MUD. For example, I will smite anyone who says "This sucks", "This bites", "This blows". "Spill the beans" might also be a bit too modern for FL, but I would let it slide.

As long as the object of your simile exists in FL, then it is fine. For example, there are foxes in FL, so "sly as a fox" would be fine. You can always be creative and FL-ize certain popular sayings. For example, instead of saying "I am going to kick your ***" your character can say "I am going to stomp your stomach". Instead of "Strong as an Ox" maybe "Oh my! He is strong as a Giant!". Hungry? "I am so hungry I could eat a Dragon!" It is all pretty relative, and you do have a license to be creative, just make sure it fits.

I feel that as long as your character can get their message across without reaching into the realm of things that wouldnt exist in FL, you are fine. Each player has to make that rationalization for themselves, but feel free to ask whenever you are unsure about something.

[Marc]

Basically....I don't think anyone has the right to govern what someone says (within the boundaries of sex' date=' [b']racism, blatant OOC, etc. etc.).

So you're saying my character cant hate drows?

[Zrothum]

Correct.