Consumables

Eating/Smoking in battle - now THAT is something that has always bugged me.  Not that it can be done, but that it can be done with 0 lag penalty.  In my opinion, smoking an herb or eating a pill should be a 2-round lag.  Think about it, kicking dirt in reality takes two seconds...smoking something takes a LOT longer.

What if we made consumables 'labored actions' and/or 'delayed effects'? We could create parameters for consumables, like instantaneous, labored and delayed.

instantaneous action/effect: an action and effect that takes place without difficulty or delay. (zapping with a wand could be one such instantaneous effect.)

labored action: an action that requires a degree of effort and focus; actions that require time to perform. (eating, quaffing, smoking could be considered labored actions... which means, when a character tries to perform one of these labored actions they'll be 'lagged' while exhibiting a set number of emotes... that effectively is the character carrying out their labored action.)

delayed effects: conditions that are not spontaneous.  (pills, scrolls, staves could be considered delayed effects... which means, it takes a bit of time before the 'magic' of the item will effect the character. the character isn't lagged.)

any number of consumables could fit one or two of these categories. (e.g. reading a certain scroll could be considered a labored action with a delayed effect... since the character has to read a magic scroll and wait for the magic to take effect.) -scrolls that have multiple spells might be considered labored where a scroll that only has a single spell would be an instantaneous action but still a delayed effect considering the amount of magic being accumulated and released by the scroll- -a scroll with a single low level spell could be instantaneous in both action and effect-

[i'm just spit-balling. Mmm Beer's post made me think of this. what consumables should be considered under my parameters (or another's if they feel like adding to mine or creating their own) are entirely up for debate. how long a particular consumable should lag/be delayed is also up for debate.]

I hate consumables, personally. Their full effect on game balance I can't say, really, and it's something the staff will discuss, but I would really like a change. This is an interesting udea to add to the list.

This is something entirly testable. Get some elite players that are willing to help out and give them each a god suit on a different port. Then say have at it. The important things here are to give them actual equipment for every spot. Not just one set of universal stuff. This will give you a good baseline for what elite pk would be like without consumables. You could rinse repeat with average gear and low grade gear.

I too am against a lot of consumables being used all the time. That doesnt mean I wont do it or hoard them. I would rather stay semi-competative. But a lot of the gear that we see has also (presumably) been balanced for constant use of sanctuary/protection. I mean if melees are all of a sudden denied access to sanctuary then they will obviously see a huge spike in damge from all angles. Meaning gear might have to have some save stats tweeked to compinsate.

I am not saying I am against consumables completly because in some fights they are absolutly nessessary. A lot of prof's Ideas make sense to me except I am also trying to keep in mind that game balance plays a large role in why lags are the way they are. The dirt kick example is precicly that. If we think about it an in game tick is one hour and we get usually around 8-10 rounds in that hour. Meaning that each round takes the equivelant of about 5-6 minutes. Kicking dirt takes about 2 seconds true but has a 10-12 minute lag. I dont think that smoking/eating in battle should even really be a thing. Poping a pill is different though as you just grab it and throw it in the mouth. But no one is going to say "Ok Im trying to kill you and all but lets take a break for a cigarette and lunch."

If we want to add further realism to the game then perhaps pills should have a digestion timer. (I dont actually like this but it makes sense).

Another solution could be the added benefit of a PK score/currency. Each Pk kill grants 10 pk points. Each time you use a consumable it swings the score 1 point. So 1 point away from you and one point to them for the potential kill. So someone who kills a person that uses a glimmering staff five times through the fight without using anything themselves would get 15 points for the kill. Alternativly the staff user would get 5 points for the kill.

A tiered system could also be created where more pk points makes you worth more and such. This would not eliminate the consumables rather make players reguage the risk/reward of using them.

Arena points?! Yus pleez.

Ooooh, I REALLY like the idea of eaten consumables having a digestion timer.  IMO, this would translate to them not going into effect until the next tick striikes.  However, I recognize that is a significant change to gameplay.

If nymph hearts are changed then I think the scrolls of tho need addressed. That item is insanely power and its been exploited by every goody invoker since creation.

Scroll of Tuo has been addressed.  No longer does it cast three heals.  Unless you mean addressed further.

Oh.. Then.. That's fine.. I suppose..

Scroll of Tuo has been addressed.  No longer does it cast three heals.  Unless you mean addressed further.

You are right. It doesn't heal 300 hp anymore. It does 200

I dont see anything wrong with a one time use scroll healing 200 or 300, its painstaking to get and incredibly tedious to upkeep. Some

melee races/classes can slam a sleep on the tick and gain that in a heartbeat, all it takes is a dirt kick and a flee and they are save to snooze 

away while a mage would need to kill the Archmage to get that kinda boost, lol.

UC

I dont see anything wrong with a one time use scroll healing 200 or 300, its painstaking to get and incredibly tedious to upkeep. Some

melee races/classes can slam a sleep on the tick and gain that in a heartbeat

 

UC

That's not true. Not even close.

Ogre regen has been nerfed and you will rarely see gains above 100-120 hp/tick while sleeping, even on berserkers that have fast healing and regen at 103. On the opposite side, a mage can slow himself down with no side penalties and have a regen equal and greater to that of an ogre.

Also, keep in mind that for an ogre that has 1500-1600 HP, 200 AC and takes double damage from virtually anything, 100 HP has much less value than 100 HP for a mage with 900 HP and 600 AC.

The balance of the Tuo healing scrolls comes from a different place IMO. It comes from the general balance between good and evil which is illustrated by the balance between Knight and Nexus, that being - evils are balanced to be more offensive while goodies are balanced to be more defensive. In this regard, evils have access to the sphere of annihilation (to which goodies have no equivalent) while goodies have access to the scrolls of Tuo.

I personally am fine with the scrolls. Everyone who takes the time to prepare should have an advantage over an enemy who didn't. People speak so much about melees using consumables that they "shouldn't" have access to, but forget the same goes for mages too. An invoker can get protection, stone skin, flesh armor, bless, SLOW. He can also use the herbs and pills melees use. He can also quaff recall potions when he gets silenced/blasphemied. Hell, there even used to be a herb that allowed you to cast when you were silenced

IMO, mages actually have an edge here, since warriors can not dispel and their consumables are limited. Once you land a dispel (of which an invoker can cast 2 per round if competent), a melee will either rarely bother to put it back up (unless it's an absolutely vital buff, like sanctuary) or has a chance to mess things up, like Tkanzhar did in this log, which leaves big opportunities for the mage.

I am all for balance, but balance is a sword that cuts both ways and the current situation around mages and the comments surrounding the topic is becoming a bit of a knee jerk reaction.

To be honest - I would rather see nymph hearts made rare and heal 300 hp then have cabal leaders stocking 60 of them and when they do make that fatal mistake not being able to be killed because they flee and heal to full hp in seconds. 

Get all.heart back

eat heart x10 

While moving? So easy. 

EDIT: I get it - acquiring all of those takes an AGE and its a pain to do it but ogre rangers and minotaur warriors shouldn't be able to heal like a cleric. If we offered melee's cure critical Im sure everyone would suddenly have a problem right?

10 nymph hearts will heal you 400 hp and will take you 6-7(?) rounds to eat. I am not sure how much the lag from eating is.

On the other hand 4 tuo scrolls will heal you for 800 hp in 4 rounds.

In my humble opinion, what you are suggesting will not have the effect you desire

10 nymph hearts will heal you 400 hp and will take you 6-7(?) rounds to eat. I am not sure how much the lag from eating is.

 

On the other hand 4 tuo scrolls will heal you for 800 hp in 4 rounds.

 

In my humble opinion, what you are suggesting will not have the effect you desire

No, then it becomes another attrition game. Four scrolls of Tuo blown instantly allowing the goodie to (for all intents and purposes) to get back into the fight immediately with full hit points.  We see the point.  But once they're gone, it's gone and the mage is sent running for the hills, crossing his fingers that Tuo might have another scroll waiting.  If not, perhaps praying for a shift.  Either way, getting another means they're highly vulnerable getting it.  While it may take a little longer, the person snacking on hearts from their stash of 50 means they can heal 2,000 hp.  Think of it as time released, if you will.

The fact that the scrolls rare means that while they can only carry four of the things, they're limited by rare count, ultimately.

A backpack full of hearts means you've got a potential 4,000 extra hit points in there.  If you really farm the hell out of them, a backpack full of travel bags full of hearts is a lot of healing. (800,000 hp, if you were wondering.)  More than a sane person would farm, but you see the point.  Roll an adventurer and farm til you vomit and be set for life.  Even with the original scroll, 1,200 hp vs 800,000?

Woe be you if your opponent, the goodie mage, decides to supplement their four scrolls of Tuo with the 20,000 hearts they've accumulated.

And this is all before the plethora of other consumables.

I should roll a thief and start selling the Merchants backpacks full of hearts.

Then I guess clerics, healers, shamans and dark knights should never die because they have "unlimited" healing consumables.

Sleep, heal, sleep, heal.

While moving? So easy.

If all they're doing is being defensive and running, no, they shouldn't.  ESPECIALLY healers.  Less so DK's with their cure light.  But it's not like Mr. Warrior with a bag of hearts has to expend them to dirt and to bash and to trip and to charge.

10 nymph hearts will heal you 400 hp and will take you 6-7(?) rounds to eat. I am not sure how much the lag from eating is.

 

On the other hand 4 tuo scrolls will heal you for 800 hp in 4 rounds.

 

In my humble opinion, what you are suggesting will not have the effect you desire

Its a unique scroll - its also take up 4 slots for other equipment you can't keep? 

If you manage to get all 4 (if there are that many) and no other good wants them or has them. 

You can even buy them hearts en mass from your local friendly merchant

EDIT: Want to get yourself caught pants down requesting a scroll? Good luck with that too. Also Tuo is not an easy solo-able mob... More danger.

I think its the fact that 'key spells' have been made abundantly available to classes that shouldnt have them, that includes mages.

An invoker with unlimited slow? Thats just dirty, heh. No class should have unlimited healing access except for clerics, thats there

main appeal. What would happen if we started giving 'hide and camo' out like popcorn too? Or animate dead? Or rage? ect.

The tuo scroll is an easy fix, make it unique 3. Afterwards set up a viewing room and watch them fight over them

Id set the nymph heart to heal 50% of the tuo scroll and also make it unique 3, Ive never seen the nymph hearts but remember

locating 'heart' one day and seeing a ton of them on someone, ill obviously not bother to fight this person.

Those options allow people to be prepared with an edge while not throwing balance out the window, as for key spells, if people

want to mass heal, animate the dead or have infinite slow they need to pick the appropriate class that was balanced around those

abilities

UC

I wouldn't go as far as to make the hearts unique 3, but I think there should be something to prevent someone from farming some of these all day.  Give the hearts a decay timer, for example.  Sure, then you'd be able to preserve them.  Merchants aside, when was the last time you saw a thief/ninja?

I also said make them heal 50% of the tuo scroll which would turn 1 of them into what.. a dozen of what they are now? Thats a big boost at clutch times

without the need to sit and farm them.

UC