When I think bard I don't think happy singing dancing faerie that makes everyone laugh. I think of a the super tank that I played using heavy armor, quickened and delayed spells in tandem to control the field and heal when necessary. In fact Bards are my favorite class in Pathfinders. I know the games aren't the same but the classes more or less have the same lore. Bards are in general all around good at things without being great at anything. They can heal, defend themselves, hide, pick locks, buff and do damage all decently well but really lack superiority in all those departments. So why not really play up their diversity and give them selectable skills.
Level 1 let them choose what weapons they will have proficiency in. Not talking expertise here, just weapons. This gives them the edge of no one really knowing what they are up against and with a jack of all trades class people really shouldn't. At the very least it will keep the PK junkies that know what weapon to use against everyone on their toes.
Narrow their skills to include skills that actually function like their peers. For example Knock out, I dont know what goes into the calculation, but from what I have seen Blackjack and strangle work 2-3 times as often. Why not just get rid of it completely and make lullaby have offensive capabilities on par with a simple sleep spell?
Anyway back to the diversity, why not let them also choose songs they want to sing? At every 5 levels let them choose 1 song from a list. Have the list be 3 songs at level 5, 6 songs at level 10, ect. This way bards have diversity and again it reinforces the fact that no one really would know what to expect from a bard. While songs are being overhauled, fix the way they are trained.
Leave their core diversity alone. By that I mean, leave their disarm, pick locks, cure serious, armor, identify and lore... alll that good stuff but let them choose some focus skills. Not all bards need pugil especially if selectable weapons is implemented. Let that be a selectable as well as something that lets them cast spells faster or maintain songs in combat. In essence let them choose to focus on their Physical, Arcane or Vocal abilities.
Bards are dependent on their voice. Give them something that makes it hard if not impossible to silence them. Perhaps its a selectable that gets made impossible to select if certain choices are made that would be too OP.
a lot of the things you've touched on, like the knockout skill and bards having selectable skills, I agree with completely. as I've discussed bards numerous times over the years, potentially one of the most interesting and fun classes to me, I'll just purge some random skills/spells I've come up with and maybe the Imms can find some way to incorporate a few of them into the overhaul.
Minstrel's Rally (this is to replace Herald of the Sky)
syntax: sing 'Minstrel's Rally'
Through this chant a Bard may, with a sufficiently powerful cry, rally their comrades. Chanting with such volume can awaken the sleeping, bestir the calmed and even make the confused cognizant. A debilitated Bard can attempt to rally himself/herself with this shout, however, because of their impaired condition this will be more difficult than rallying others and only possible if the Bard has remained conscious. The same shout that frees the Bard has a greater possibility of freeing their group. [the effects of this chant, when successful, will dispel calm on the bard or grant frenzy... as well as their group mates... this chant/song will also dispel effects that render the bard completely immobile (certain skills/spells that can't be named)... as well as their group mates... lastly, this song will awaken group mates that have been rendered unconscious]
Resonance (takes the place of Disarm)
syntax: resonance name of object -at least as specific as heal uncurse requires-
A Bard can find the exact frequency and volume needed to make certain objects unstable, then focus that sound upon a single target. This will cause an object held or worn by the target to vibrate intensely. The effects of this have been known to cause damage to both the target and their possessions. Supposedly, the Bard can achieve a perfect pitch - causing whatever object effected to shatter. [this skill does slight damage. it can target weapons and damage them to the point of uselessness... at least until they're repaired... however, there are occasions that the item will just be destroyed. should the target not possess a weapon or has one burnproof, the bard can target items worn instead... damaging or destroying said items. this skill is meant to grow in effect as it continues to target a specific weapon/item... allowing the bard to find the necessary pitch & volume to damage it... this wouldn't effect cloth material nor other such materials... it is powerful enough to crack/sunder solids like metal. now that items can be damaged and repaired, I think this would be a cool skill to add]
Fighting Dirty
syntax: automatic
Bards sometimes have to employ underhanded techniques to get an advantage over their foes. Training how to fight dirty, when mastered, guarantees a free swipe at any foe foolish enough to distract themselves with armor or weapon changes in mid-combat. [this skill could work in conjunction with several bard skills like uppercut, kick and brawl... incorporating their effects whenever Fighting Dirty is triggered. this would also provide a nice synergy with the aforementioned Resonance skill]
Song of Perfection
syntax: sing 'Song of Perfection' object
While singing this song, the Bard can direct the resulting sonic vibrations across the surface of an object and repair it. It has also been known, when used on an unmarred object, to remove its inherent flaws and weaknesses. Every successful performance increases the chance of failure for future attempts. Failure often results in ruination beyond repair. [i've been sitting on this one for a while because of the skills already in use that enhance items... this song can repair weapons and armor that have been damaged, but even more interesting... it can lessen the negative effects. (example: armor gives -2 dex, a successful use of this song will make it -1 instead)]
Lullaby (replaces current Lullaby and removes Knockout)
syntax: sing 'Lullaby' target
Using the persuasive power of song, the Bard may sing a lullaby at a single target. The target may experience varying degrees of drowsiness, react more slowly than normal, be calmed or fall completely asleep. The effects depend on a multitude of factors, whether friend or foe, at rest or in the midst of battle. [(certain qrace are immune) when used in battle can create the effects of slow on the group healer/mage or calm their targeted foe... when used on a group mate outside of battle, it will provide a more restful sleep (sweet dreams affect that will increase the targets move/mana/hitgain without forcing them to sleep) when used on a foe, it has a chance to forcibly put them to sleep or drain them on a failed attempt]
The Call of Lady Luck
syntax: sing 'The Call of Lady Luck'
This song can be a great boon for any adventuring party. However, Lady Luck is fickle and may not always come to the Bard's aid. [this song will provide the entire party with an increase to luck... there is a small chance that, instead of a positive result, it will decrease luck. (the chance of negative effect is dependent on mastery of the song... a mastered version will seldom, if ever, bring a negative result)]
Conquers' Song of Triumph
syntax: sing 'Conquers' Song of Triumph' -singing the song a second time will end the effect without costing mana- -there could be a different part sung at the start than what's sung for ending the song-
While singing this song, the Bard stirs the hearts and minds of all members of his or her party, creating an experience that will not soon be forgot. [if the bard can maintain this spell, she/he can start a song before the slaying of a mob and keep going during the course of a pass... providing a bonus amount of experience for everyone involved and a minor increase to hit & dam for every mob killed.]
The Wayfaring Stranger (had to title it like this, for obvious reasons. this could take the place of Flight of the Condor)
syntax: sing 'The Wayfaring Stranger'
While the bard remains under the affects of this magical and ancient song they'll soon notice the requirement of a mount for prolonged travel unnecessary. It is believed that nothing impedes the Wayfarer, not even water. [(yes, I went there... I made Bards like Jesus... water to wine and walking on water ) aside from walking on water, this spell will increase the bard's movegain, decrease movement cost and increase resistance to certain skills/spells that are designed to drain movement points... however, should the Bard need to fly, for whatever reason, the effects of this song will be canceled and vice versa]
Vertigo
syntax: vertigo target
The bard focuses the power of their shout into a physical blow that strikes their target with great force. In addition to the damage caused, the target may be knocked down and disoriented for a period of time. [this skill can ground a flier, dismount a rider and/or confuse the targets sense of direction. could be an additional amount of damage if the target was flying/riding... the initial damage then hitting the ground]
Song of Valor
syntax: sing 'Song of Valor'
By singing tales of heroism and valor the singer, creating an aura of protection about herself/himself, bolsters their resolve. [something akin to protective shield, except the Bard takes full damage and it weakens the duration of the effect for each stun effect absorbed]
Call of the Wild (would prefer their old Phoenix song)
syntax: sing 'Call of the Wild'
This song will call a small elemental to the caster for the duration of its effects. The type of elemental which appears is dependent on the local terrain, the area the Bard currently resides. [these creatures will provide a small bonus in combat, literally a single attack and can be ordered to take a round of combat from time to time... they're far more useful in the right circumstances (explain more later)... these wyrdlings are split into five elemental sub-types (air, earth, fire, water and lightning) with their own unique benefits, wyrdlings are hard to summon... so, being in Elemental Canyon would be a great place to find every type... however, trying to call a fire wyrdling there will be far less likely than say... the valcano... which goes for every type of wyrdling. so, a water wyrdling would be particularly useful against a dwarf... where a fire wyrdling would be perfect for ferals... a lightning wyrdling would be more useful against a heavily armored opponent... yada yada, etc...]
Wyrdling Gate
syntax: cast 'Wyrdling Gate'
This spell, created by a particularly gifted Bard, opens a magical portal between the Bard and their wyrdling. It is not possible to open a portal to all areas. However, anyone may pass through the gate - both followers and not, but once the Bard who created the portal steps through or sufficient time has passed, it will close. [this spell is particularly useful when attempting to help a group mate retrieve their stuff from their corpse or pick up additional group mates without having to trek back and forth... depending on the wyrdling you're trying to get back to, the gate could be composed of their element and be visually stunning... maybe even a dwarf passing through a water wyrdling gate will take a maul shrug]
these skills/spells/songs are just random ideas and can be tweaked and reworked however they would best fit... duration, mana cost, etc... is left to your discretion.
I disagree, bards in my opinion are a waste of class and only there for another RP angle. Yes this may be slightly harsh but the class was recently updated (compared to other classes that have not been at all)
Besides when I think of bards I think of Edward from FF4, so that pretty much wins.
And their "recent update" was taking skills from other classes and giving them to the bard, but neglecting to give them skills that make that skills they DID get USEFUL! IE: Pugil w/o two handed..
Against blackjack, but I like most of the other ideas.
No on the warcry idea. We already have different stats for races that go different classes (drow and elf BLM - which is a bad idea IMO), if we start making same things have different results/effects we'll go into a very dark path of no return, besides that is a lazy way to fix problems.
Also against the charm idea.
I would like to see bards not needing an instrument to sing though, at least not for the songs that are supposed to be sang while fighting.
Some of Prof's ideas are really something! I'm worried about them overpowering the class, though. Yes, bards are currently subpar, but an exaggerated amount. Some skill fixes are required, perhaps an update to their THAC0, and how fast their songs master. Overhaul the songs, perhaps, to get rid of the "RP" songs, add some new ones (careful to not make them too strong).
Songs are the hardest part to balance for one reason: They are not spells, in a sense. Try to have a Savant work their magic on your songs, see what happens. While that might seem like a nerf, consider the other side of that: Their songs would (and currently do) stack with consumables and spells of the same effect. Which means that either songs get rolled into spells (not a fan of that idea), or you have songs that lack the "oomf" many want to attribute to them. I like the latter better, as it suits the bard more. The better overhaul to the song system would be to have instruments take the floating slot instead. It makes the most sense, if you can fire a bow while holding weapons, you should be able to use an instrument in its place. That way, you keep the mechanic of having to choose between auto-damage and songs, but without destroying your defenses to do it.
Knockout is an altogether worthless skill, and should be removed. Not only does it have an abysmal hit chance, but it also lags forever and a day if you miss. And then even when you hit, you can at most get away with stealing consumables and gold. There's little point to even successfully using the skill. There is always something better to do while your song buffs (short duration) are up.
I'm heavily against blackjack being added for the same reasoning. All it does is fix the reliability issue.
And I'm gonna say it now: I'm also against giving bards a protective shield, even a weaker version. Make it too hard to lag a bard and they will get pretty rude. I think the better solution here would be to add the ability to "weave" through bash/bodyslam attempts inside cities (update brawl)
When I posted I also didn't realise you could buy the ability to read tarot cards with RP. I was wondering why so many had the lucky perk..
Just another part of bards that is underwhelming now, The lucky perk is required to make tarot not backfire for a bard but with so many using it is no longer special or unique. Using the floating slot is an idea but losing bow is significant.
Also, while lucky helps with tarots, its a cop-out for the lazy bards. Tarot isn't so great that you should justify losing out on other perk options just to never get a bad tarot. Just boost your luck with the other stuff in game and play the odds. Worst case scenario you get a minor debuff, but still have a better perk to fall back on.
Zero idea who you guys are talking about.. anyway, throwing this idea out there for bards.
A bards instrument
Using a neck slot for an instrument, pretty much any instrument would need to be slung around the neck for a bard to be able to use it quickly in combat.
This frees the bards hands up for dual wielding or holding a weapon and an item which brings us to the second part..
this could take the place of Flight of the Condor)
syntax: sing 'The Wayfaring Stranger'
While the bard remains under the affects of this magical and ancient song they'll soon notice the requirement of a mount for prolonged travel unnecessary. It is believed that nothing impedes the Wayfarer, not even water. [(yes, I went there... I made Bards like Jesus... water to wine and walking on water 
) aside from walking on water, this spell will increase the bard's movegain, decrease movement cost and increase resistance to certain skills/spells that are designed to drain movement points... however, should the Bard need to fly, for whatever reason, the effects of this song will be canceled and vice versa]
