Iusedtobesomebody Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 'on even ground' will never happen. someone will ALWAYS have an advantage of some kind. you really can't say X class will never beat Y class. there are so many variables that come into play, that to make such a broad sweeping statements is doing a disservice to people who might want to make class X. PK is all about timing and preparedness. with both, any class can take down any class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 when making comparisons like this, it is neccesary to assume a lvl of equal footing. i mean really, your saying "a rogue can out damage a monk" on even footing, no way...yeah if the monk is naked and the rogue is decked/qrace/cabaled..of course... on even footing, a monk will smash any rogue class. edit: and to add, a good player behind a well trianed monk is a sight to behold...with herbs, scrolls, potions, and good - decked eq a monk is quite potent against any opponent ESPECIALLY if they have time to get in the proper stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 your missing my point. it's pointless to say 'on equal footing', because that never happens. there are always variables. so, instead of saying 'a thief will never out damage a monk', a simple 'a thief will rarely out damage a monk, but anything is possible if played right'. i know, i know, semantics. blanket statements are my pet peeve. my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 I agree with WC. Monks should never PK in defensive. Well, a prepared, EQ'd monk should never fight in defensive. There is an offensive stance for EVERY class. Crane for communers. Tiger for rogues. Dragon for warriors. Defensive if you are hunting and tanking. Defensive if you are naked and trying to take care of some stuff without that giant bashing your head in. so, with that mentality how do you take down rangers and necro's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Necros is easy, Crane. I Honestly think the easiest fight for a monk is necro. Have you ever seen a monk tear through a necro's pets? Its mighty fun to watch their hard earned pet so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Necros is easy' date=' Crane. I Honestly think the easiest fight for a monk is necro. Have you ever seen a monk tear through a necro's pets? Its mighty fun to watch their hard earned pet so fast.[/quote'] In crane, wouldn't a monk just get lagged to death by their zomies? Dey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 I always found necro's the hardest fight for monks, but I still went offensive in crane. You won't get the kill in defensive, so I either killed the zombies first, or I went haste, frenzy, balls to the wall all out on the necro himself. Open with a chii bolt to drop what you can and hope to hell your chakerahs land as needed. With my last monk the tactic I tried a little was a bit of using myself as bait, waiting around in defensive and horse. You can counter more than just physical attacks with that stance. But I just didn't like setting myself up like that. Crane stance is my favorite stance for killing anything. WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 I always found necro's the hardest fight for monks, but I still went offensive in crane. You won't get the kill in defensive, so I either killed the zombies first, or I went haste, frenzy, balls to the wall all out on the necro himself. Open with a chii bolt to drop what you can and hope to hell your chakerahs land as needed. With my last monk the tactic I tried a little was a bit of using myself as bait, waiting around in defensive and horse. You can counter more than just physical attacks with that stance. But I just didn't like setting myself up like that. Crane stance is my favorite stance for killing anything. WC most consistently succesful necro tactic for me has been drunken, you get second dodge skill so extra enemies are easily avoided aka pets. and your kick lags so you can keep the necro still while you beat the crap out of him...since even in defensive you will hit a necro quite often. of course 100% stance, 100% balance, 100% anatomy, and 100% kick/double kick...neccesary to pull it off without a hitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 For some reason, I just never found drunken stances lag reliable. Though I don't recall if I had double kick mastered. WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 That sounds like something I will have to try on my next monk Kyz. The reason I went crane was for the massive damage and "special things" that happened against the necro. If he let me fight him, he was screwed, if he let me fight his zombies, I would target a specific zombie and hit and run it to death. You can keep from being lag locked as a monk in offensive, its not 100% but what is? I always wanted to try dragon on a necro, but my last monk didnt have any necro targets. I bet the size and add a scroll of flying would tear some zombies up. A necro without zombies (Unless played by a pro) is easy as pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 A necro without zombies (Unless played by a pro) is easy as pie. unless your name is Onileon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 ghoul touch + cone of force was harsh back then I think why people like blms more than monks is because of the -controllable- status inflictions (crit strikes--and blm crit strikes do nastier stuff than chakeras GENERALLY), being able to hit all vulns (they use a WEAPON--and a polearm is just as fast as a dagger for a blm), and the strength of BLM weapon flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 'on even ground' will never happen. someone will ALWAYS have an advantage of some kind. you really can't say X class will never beat Y class. there are so many variables that come into play, that to make such a broad sweeping statements is doing a disservice to people who might want to make class X. PK is all about timing and preparedness. with both, any class can take down any class. Shamans will never beat an undead. With my monk, I found that horse (for reverse attacks) or drunken (for unreliable lagg) stance was the best bet to chase off rogues. Mantis will own them so hard. I only reached level 48, so I wouldn't know about 50 combat, but I do see how a monk can be at disadvantage most of the time, thus requireing skills to be successful. First of all, your equipment is very limited due to encumberance. Secondly, the stances are -so- important. Getting caught in the wrong one will get you killed, unless you are in defensive. That will only get you killed by skilled chasers and/or minister, sleep, plagues, etc. Nevertheless, monk trip is one of the nastiest laggers in existance, especially since they get air trash. Coupled with good anatomies and monkey or crane stance you will put out some hurt. That will really be your defense, as previously mentioned. A person healing up is the same as a person not hurting you. Dragon stance is really nice too. Anyway... Monks are not all that bad (me vs giant, both unsanced, back in 2.0, just a friendly duel): You yell 'Help! Dryden is trying to bash me!' Dryden sends you sprawling with a powerful bash! Dryden's bash LACERATES you! Dryden is in excellent condition. Monk: [===|===|===|==-] |669hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> Dryden blocks your attack with his weapon. Your elbow slash LACERATES Dryden! Dryden parries your attack. Dryden's flame MASSACRES you! You parry Dryden's attack with your first hand. Dryden is in excellent condition. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |594hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> di Dryden is blinded by the dirt in his eyes! Your kicked dirt scratches Dryden. Dryden is in excellent condition. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |594hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> Dryden parries your attack. You have gained knowledge about giant! Your elbow slash devastates Dryden! Dryden blocks your attack with his weapon. Your palm strike devastates Dryden! Dryden blocks your attack with his weapon. You dodge Dryden's attack. You dodge Dryden's attack. A Fire Lance sears your flesh with flames. Dryden's flaming bite hits you. Dryden has a few scratches. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |584hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> disarm You evade Dryden's bash, causing him to fall flat on his face. Dryden's bash misses you. Dryden has a few scratches. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |584hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> Your elbow slash decimates Dryden! Dryden parries your attack. Your jump kick maims Dryden! You parry Dryden's attack with your first hand. You parry Dryden's attack with your first hand. You dodge Dryden's attack. You parry Dryden's attack with your first hand. A Fire Lance sears your flesh with flames. Dryden's flaming bite injures you. Dryden has some small wounds and bruises. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |571hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> You disarm Dryden! Dryden has some small wounds and bruises. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |571hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> Your elbow slash LACERATES Dryden! You have gained knowledge about giant! Your jab decimates Dryden! Your jump kick LACERATES Dryden! Your palm strike LACERATES Dryden! You have gained knowledge about giant! Your roundhouse kick MUTILATES Dryden! You parry Dryden's attack with your first hand. You dodge Dryden's attack. You parry Dryden's attack with your first hand. Dryden has quite a few wounds. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |571hp 475m 339mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 6:00 hours> get lance The sun rises in the east. Dryden rubs the dirt out of his eyes. Dryden has quite a few wounds. Monk: [===|===|===|---] |582hp 475m 387mv 24904tnl> |D(ism)ounted 7:00 hours> di Dryden dodges your attack. Your back fist mauls Dryden. Your jump kick maims Dryden! You execute "strike of the phantom dragon". A phantasmal dragon rears its head and breaths. Your phantom dragon does UNSPEAKABLE things to Dryden! The power of Dragon in your veins you bury your fingers in Dryden's torso! Your dragon claw === DISINTEGRATES === Dryden! Dryden is mortally wounded!! A challenge has ended. You have won your challenge. FINISH THEM! Known as the one-hit kill stance. If you get it off.. well.. all you need to do is trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbond Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 a crane' d or dragon'ed monk +well prepared +with all quaff/eat/smoke/bran items already imbibed, well equipped too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Shamans will never beat an undead. Shamans can kill even without half their spells. Even undead. Just takes longer, and more planning. Instead of playing with false absolutes, play with creativity. I'll say it again (and hey, who am I that you should believe, right?), any class can be beaten with any class. Just strain the grey matter until you come up with a way. Will it be easy? No. Nothing worthwhile is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Ehh.. Anyone know how many times in the history of FL a shaman managed to killed a semi-decent, prepared undead? I think I could count the occassions on two hands. It might not be impossible, just darned near impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 i think it's more possible than you think, but still a tough chore. throw in the right cabal, and it becomes even -more- possible. *wink* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 I've seen shamans slaughter prepped undeads and I've seen ninjas pull off assassinations on vampires who were hunting them the entire time. I've seen an ogre warrior in mithril take down decked shamans/clerics, I've seen fire giants take down invokers. Nothing in this game is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H&R Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Buddha is the way to go against necros. Ask Pominsu how many things he landed on my monk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Yeah, but did you ever beat him in defensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Drunken against any warrior or ranger if they are giant sized. Double kick is very reliable if you master it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 I would always do dragon for a warrior. Crane for a cleric chii lvl 3 I hate invokers so proboly budha for them. Only really trickey one is blademasters, proboly crane for them and lvl 3 bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 budha for invokers..eh...why go defensive on a weak defense class? my most consistent invoker killer is monkey with chii bolt 3. Once the chakeras start hititng its a bad day for the invoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Stop it. You're really making me want to play a monk, and I know if I do, I'll delete after pulling my hair out with anat training. Dey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvantis Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Tylith didn't need me to Avatar him to dominate as he did. In fact I made him give up his Knight pet to be an Avatar. His roleplay, fearlessness and unyielding pk really gave me no choice. Perhaps the best avatar I've seen in FL ever. He single handedly turned the tide from evil in the realms for quite a long time. Oh, and as far as advise on a monk? Dragon in all situations mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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