Stat randomization on EQ

As celerity said this would rease eq availability, reduce overly harsh lots and would prevent you from never seeing certain eq. God forged dagger, adeptus torso, hands of zharek. These are all pieces you never see. They are also sought after. I have not seen adeptus torso in forever, Same with hands. It would also mean you can always improve so your never stuck wearing onyx rings because no rings are available.

So instead the solution is to allow eq to be restricted to those players who have massive hours or ultra elite piers in god suits? Have you tried fighting an invoker when you there has not been a helm of spell turning, ice amulet or moonstone pendant in a month? This relieves eq disparity, gives newer players which we DO have a fair amount of the ability to get suited up. Full looks do not car ragquits because you can just go get it again. You also have the potential god suit without need a party by farming rarely used items you can solo. This is a huge bonus for people in near dead cabals because you can relatively quickly get suited to a stronger pk level instead of just typing outfit and hoping for the best

The solution for the lack of middle/low range lack of gear is not completely changing the system by adding random Procedural generation gear. It's about raising awareness of the voids when they exist, so that they can be addressed.

For example, the PB raised awareness that there was middle rare ring after onyx rings and before accuracy rings, and we got the Bonefinger ring.

In my view this can still be further refined, because people are complaining that the new rings are to rare, which I agree. Making them +3 hitroll instead of +4 but in vast numbers (almost always in) would be a good solution.

Enethier refereed the adamantium band, case.

Object 'adamantium band' is type armor, material adamantium.Extra flags: glow.Weight is 0, value is 4, level is 40.Armor class is 15 pierce, 14 bash, 15 slash, and 10 vs. magic.Affects hitroll by 1.Affects str by -1.Affects damroll by 2.Rare item.'

But sometimes the solution already exists, but it's just in plain sight.

Object 'XXX' is type armor, material coral.Extra flags: glow.Weight is 3, value is 4, level is 43.Armor class is 10 pierce, 12 bash, 11 slash, and 6 vs. magic.Affects damroll by 1.Affects hitroll by 2.Rare item.

Regarding the AFF equipment. There are lots of AFF gear around. It's true that most use the Moonstone pendants, and their variant, the ICE Amulet, but there are many options around.

If you can't get neckgear with AFF saves but you can get "Fire rings" and shift your hit/dam ring to the neck.

This kind of work applies to many other situations.

For example, you can get the Ice Armor. And you don't need the spell turning helm, you can get the:

       (Invis) (Humming) a Glyph of Ancient Darkness

This is the beauty of this system. You can plan and get in short time what you really need.

Any cabaled player has access to L60 locate, that will allow him to know if X gear is available.

Regarding the God suits.

Players do not have the right to wear a god suit. They have the chance to compete for one.

Not everyone will be able to get the best equipment. This is a fundamental rule of the Forsaken Lands.

If someone has the god item and you want it, you kill them and loot it from their corpse.

One can argue that some god items are to powerful, and I agree. But that is not the same.

DISCLAIMER!!!!

This post is not directed at anyone in particular. I just quoted what I thought was a good base point to start my arguments.

I think there is a misconception here. This is for the benefit of people who are unable to run around wrecks pk to get the gear they want. I can get the gear I want. I also do not really care about gear because I know I can do without it. Johnny the newbie does not. Johnny the new pyeashould feel immortal from time to time. Johnny should not have to play here for twelve years to earn his right to wear his eq. Johnny should not have to wait a mon for a specific piece of gear. Neither should you. If elling me you are ok wi the fact that power fists for all purposes do not exist, anhave not form months, then you are ignorant to what newer players want and need to grow. Hell valet still rage quits over looting and he has been here been longer than my eleven years. People want eq people want to feel powerful. Tell me I am wrong

I'm going to be the first one to admit I skimmed a lot of what was written, but tried to read key points (bold, etc, throughout celerity's post).

I'm curious - how will we tell between a good piece of eq, and a common piece of eq? Identify only?

AND

Just in thinking, if I were to do this (and I like the idea, honestly), what about the Glyph of Eternal Darkness, or Ring of Abyss - will weaker versions have the chance of not having resistance to mental? Will weaker versions have less -svs? Will the boss be the same strength each time? And should the base stats of these already superb items be the superior versions, or the core versions? A "superor" Ring of Abyss for instance may be ridiculous strong, compared to what it is.

If this has been answered already, I apologize - lots of stuff on my plate, and I just want to make everyone happy.

I imagine that there would be need to be some kind of change to lore if this system were put into place. Identify could do as it does now (full stats, could even separate 'core' and 'modified' stats by color to help newbies) and lore would give 100% accurate core stats only as well as the item's location. This isn't much trouble for armor as stats can be compared using the score sheet..but may be trickier for weapons. You'd have to make a staff decision whether or not players without identify will have to test the gear or they will have some alternative access to accurate weapon identification (lore again, for example). Another quick idea is that you could use make use of the compare command and have it accurately list different stats only between the items compared. Examine would give an estimate of the basic quality (rare/whatever).

Concerning items that have unique bonuses, mostly oprogs, but also +spellvl or some other very important bonus, you could simply not include them in the randomization and make them part of the core, balancing appropriately. So in my opinion, a ring of abyss will always have resistance to mental, but maybe nothing else or even penalties.

The total amount of points is based on the level. Points = level/10. If an item is rare, it gets an extra 3 points. If unique, it gets 5. For items currently classified as rare or unique, it is assumed that is the strength of the rare or unique levels. So the current vorpal sword is as powerful as a unique vorpal sword.

This also lets us test balance for current items easily. The total points of the item should be very close to item level/10 +rare/unique extras.

Example: Vorpal Blade:

Level: 54 = 10.8 total points

Weapon type is sword Damage is 8d6 (average 28) = +5.5 points Damage noun is cleave. = +0 points Weapons flags: vorpal = +1 point Affects hitroll by 3, level 54. = +1.5 points Affects damroll by 6, level 54. = +3 points Affects sword by 5, level 54. =+2.5 points Extra bits: antigood noremove = +1 point Weight: 330/330/330 (10th pounds) = +1 point Unique = -5 points

= 10.5 points (currently well-balanced for a unique level 54 weapon)

A non-unique vorpal sword (stat changes chosen randomly from my list):

Weapon type is sword Damage is (average 25) = +4.0 points Damage noun is cleave. = +0 points Weapons flags: vorpal = +1 point Affects hitroll by 3, level 54. = +1.5 points Affects damroll by 4, level 54. = +2.0 points Affects sword by 3, level 54. =+1.5 points Extra bits: antigood noremove = +1 point Weight: 330/330/330 (10th pounds) = +1 point

parry -1 = -0.5 points -2 str = -1.0 point

total = 10.5 points (very average common quality)

As for mob/etc. stats...interesting, but it is a different proposal. I'm assuming that mob strength/respawn isn't changing.

For people worried that randomization is too imbalanced:

It is possible that the randomization can be implemented as sets. The staff creates a predetermined and balanced set of bonuses/penalties and the "random" is just choosing from those sets which could be a great many in number or just a few dozen. One set might look like:

+3 hitroll (+1.5 points)

+1 dex (+0.5 points)

-1 damroll (-0.5 points)

avg damage +1 (+0.5 point)

sharp flag (+1 point)

condition: no sharp flag on base item

= 3 points (rare set)

I think those elite items should be the superior versions with common ones having slightly reduced ac slightly lower saves, slightly lower skill bonuses etc etc. that way you don't run into power fists that are worse than light steel gauntlets. The only issue I'm having is how to handle rare sockets like embers and emblems of gear. I would likely stress this idea is not going to help elites and long time vets it is going to help the new players and mid range players with less experience feel more competitive. We all remember the first time we got that suit of ultra rare eq. Imagine guarantees that everyone gets what they want. You can argue that this will hurt mages, but truth be told shamans and clerics have too easy a time already, invokes love decked folks, and bmgs are an attritiony class that rewards patient skilled players anyway.

And you are also ensuring those classes get what they need anyway. I have seen folks stuck wearing re equip suits because nothing is available for them to get anyway.

I would likely stress this idea is not going to help elites and long time vets it is going to help the new players and mid range players with less experience feel more competitive.

I would like to stress that the exact opposite will happen.

A new player will never have the knowledge, the spirit or the time to grind a fully maxed suit.

He will not be able to do the factions alone, or even profit from groups for Gear/Desolation.

What will happen is that the players with the most time and skill will grind those places over and over, until they maxed their suit.

The veterans that have less time will be at an even greater competitive disadvantage.

Then there is the looting. Random stats will stimulate looting, because your opponent might  have a better accuracy ring than the one you have. And you have no way to know except to loot. In fact it's only logical that players with access to identify will loot every item they do not have maximized.

I do not agree that everyone should have god items. There is a reason this items are unique. So that only a one or two can wear them at a time.

What you guys propose is:

a ) equipment will always be available independent of rare status.

b ) equipment will have **some **random status like Hit/Dam.

If your intention is have high end equipment available to everyone, why not just increase the Rare count to "always available". And avoid the nightmare that is random stats on equipment.

If your intention is to introduce random stats on equipment, what does it really brings to the game of positive?

I only see endless grinding.

Now regarding mages, you are right, The-Nameless, this will be another tiping of the balance towards meele.

If hit/dam and saves are going to be random, then it's only fair that +spell level should have a chance of appearing on normal rares.

Or as an alternative every hit/dam bonus over base stat should incur a penalty on saves.

Your onyx ring rolled a +3 hitroll, then he also gets a +1 spell save penalty.

Bad idea. People who don't have much time have to work harder in hopes they don't get the "crappy" rare this time.

Also makes me want to full loot everyone to see what kinda stats they had.

Benefits players with more time to grind out the perfect roll on gear.

Players who don't have that time may get a good roll on their drop...or they may spend all day running discord until they get the gear they want.

Just seems like getting rares has always been an issue... Now you want to make the gear that's already hard to get have the chance to not be worth getting? Why am I gonna wanna get a hells fury that rolled +wis and mana?

You would need to add a new flag to items that dictate of they are meele or c/c items and have the randomizer draw from a pool of options for those items.

So all of you are saying that everyone should shut up and be happy wearing rheydin rubble shirt at level 50 because there is no torso worn hit dam available? Your completely ok with mages having access to crap +hp gear because guess what, all of is taken by other mages? This PK someone mentality is pretty annoying, espescially since most players have 2-3 characters who HAVE rare eq out of circulation. If you say you would rather wear an onyx ring, instead of a mildly weaker ring of accuracy, I have an opinion on that. Your lying. And people get looted HEAVILY as it is. Most folks lose between 3 and 10 items each death. All of it depending on who kills them. So obviously the current system is not functioning to curb looting. At least this way when you get power looted, you know specific items will be available.

Considering that would require numbers we don't have, I think you should evaluate just how much you can exaggerate while arguing a point. 

There are -many- torso pieces. Some are better than others, yes, but you're not going to be stuck running around in a rubble t-shirt.

You're getting worked up in this thread, and that's clear by reading your posts. Is it so much of an issue that you need to get that invested?

So you can't get an Adeptus Torso or a Titanium Fullplate. So what? There's still centurian hauberks, slimy breastplates, decorative chainmail, hell even shadow plate.

Instead of telling people that they are lying because they don't think the same way you do about something is just a silly way to go about things (also a bad example, because who even wears onyx rings anymore, and the ring of accuracy has been available 6 days out of the 8 i've looked for it in the last week and a half). 

Rare count was already improved back when we had more players. To my knowledge, it has not been lowered again since that time. So, in reality there are more available rare items. Rare availability isn't the problem. The notion that this is a change to "standardize" some of the EQ using a RNG is also incorrect. You got angry in another post the last time it was brought up, but RNGs do not equate to a balanced or fair rule variant. In fact, by their design, they are unfair. They are built on the fallacy that being random is being impartial, and so it must be equal (as everyone has the same percentile chance to achieve a certain effect). In actuality, it is quite unbalanced and unfair, because even with the same percentile chance for a given effect, RNGs breed entropy. By definition, the vast differences in RNG results would lead to a relatively wide variation in equipment values. Even if each piece of equipment only varied by no more than -2 ac and a hitroll, that is still going to be considered vastly better than the other end of that spectrum. 

Which again returns the point of exaggeration. As players, we know what the better equipment is for each slot, and we decide, based on that information, what we want to equip ourselves with. We see any gear that is at all below that piece of equipment as "bad". That's an inescapable part of the way the human brain works. I could go into great detail, but essentially it can be simplified to say that once we see one answer to a situation, and we evaluate it as the best or fastest, it becomes incredibly difficult to find other solutions, even if they are better or more easily done. Our brains, quite literally, refuse any input that does not coincide with what is already known and perceived to be the best. You need to recognize this when you make evaluations on what the best solutions may be. If you don't, you're just going to continue to get frustrated with everyone else and come across like a rude child. Causing people disinterest in a debate because they cannot force themselves to read what you are saying is a poor way to argue a point.

The system, by the way, isn't intended to curb looting. Where did you get that idea? Making equipment rare and unique actually encourages looting. That much should be obvious. Looting is part of the game, why change that?

I really, honestly, see no point in stat randomization.

Ok, lets make some examples:

Cloak of unmoving shadows is considered top tier item for neck. It gives 3 hit and -10 AC. So you want to randomize that? A bad cloak would look like that then? 2 hit and -8 AC? You realize that is basically a teeth necklace?

A torso? That's the titanium fullplate. 3 hit 3 dam. Randomize it? 2 hit 2 dam. That's the centaur's hauberk, or a shadow plate with a topaz.

You can go on like that forever.

So what is the point of this move? So your titanium fullplate will have the stats of centaur hauberk?

From what I'm reading Foxx a bad cloak of umoving shadows could be +2 wis -3sva....a +2hit -8ac would be an almost perfect roll on the item.

Like foxx said...this would essentially be Diablo... Except when you die, you lose everything.

I admit, I didn't read the whole thing... but if that is the case, then things are even worse.

From what I'm reading Foxx a bad cloak of umoving shadows could be +2 wis -3sva....a +2hit -8ac would be an almost perfect roll on the item.

I admit, I didn't read the whole thing... but if that is the case, then things are even worse.

You are misreading then. I quoted a direct question very similar to this already. Please check it rather than spreading misinformation.

It is hard to say what an item will be without a current item ID. In the case of the cloak of moving shadows, I'd need an ID on it to give you any idea of what it might gen. It won't suddenly turn into a tooth necklace though.

If you don't bother to read the whole thing, your opinion is essentially worthless on the topic.

You are misreading then. I quoted a direct question very similar to this already. Please check it rather than spreading misinformation.

It is hard to say what an item will be without a current item ID. In the case of the cloak of moving shadows, I'd need an ID on it to give you any idea of what it might gen. It won't suddenly turn into a tooth necklace though.

If you don't bother to read the whole thing, your opinion is essentially worthless on the topic.

Not reading. You can correct what I said and what the majority of people who wont read this exhausting thread will assume. ..or you can choose not to.

The idea sounds like it is turning the eq into a diablo system. The details are irrelevant.

Not reading. You can correct what I said and what the majority of people who wont read this exhausting thread will assume. ..or you can choose not to.

The idea sounds like it is turning the eq into a diablo system. The details are irrelevant.

You are very correct in that I won't waste time arguing with your pure assumptions of what this idea is about, nor bother to repeat answers to remarks that I've already answered and you can't be bothered to read. You cannot possibly expect anyone to take your opinion seriously when you very clearly state that you don't understand what you are talking about in the slightest. This begs the question as to why you 'bother' to post your opinion besides trying to degenerate or troll the thread.

Furthermore, it is very disrespectful to somebody who has put more time into producing this single system than you likely have into the sum of your ideas over a decade.

You realize that we are getting to a point in FL where you CANNOT GET these replacement rares your talking about right? Go check centurian, go check the agent. Shadow plate? Gone, Centurian hauberk? Negatory. God help you trying to go after weapons. This system does not create diablo, stop trying to say it does. This system creates a place where everyone CAN get gear they are after. People should not spend OVER 18 MONTHS waiting to hope an eye of hakeashar is available. You should not spend 9 months hoping one day you might stumble across titanium powerfists because char X, and Y has them owner only for eternity. If your suggesting I should be happy at pinn fighting in cleaning gloves, or double plated leggings, as the BEST ITEMS I CAN GET for those slots, god help you. I sure as hell cannot. I am also quite tired of it being suggested that I have a vested interest in being able to get these items. I do not. I like to think I am a decently skilled player, who knows all areas of the game, and has the ability to collect what I want. This is not the issue. The issue is some folks have not played here 8+ years gasp These players are entitled to the same benefits as anyone else, but most of you seem to be laboring under the idea this is some flimsy suggestion designed to make me have an easy time getting the eq I want. Stop for a moment, and consider the fact I MIGHT be suggesting this idea for the benefit of the entire mud, espescially our budding new players. Consider the fact that I have learned you can pk in a cabal outfit. That I am skilled enough (I know, hard to grasp) to handle my own in a sub par suit. Maybe take this one step further, let us all know that I think almost all the adeptus eq is bad. Im not keen on items lowering my stats. That means to wear adeptus torso, I have to increase that dex somewhere else. That also means I have a harder time swapping out noremove weapons, because my str is so damn high. This means? You guessed it I don't want adeptus torso. Blasphemy right. Now take johnny-come-newly, he goes on a mythical trip to Gear, finally besting all of the gauntlets, and after grueling battles he barely survives, and now can claim the prize he so covets. A sweet piece of fat l00t to stick on his toon. Let johnny learn this game without getting rofl stomped for 5 years before being able to finally escape his foes. And another 3 before he causes them to run with some regularity. Do you realize if I had started taking computer courses the moment anamus got an eye of hakeashar, I could have recieved nearly every applicable computer certification viable in a job market before I could have gotten an eye of hakeashar. Think about that without forming a sentence that has the word Diablo in it. Also, stop trying to think that this is about me, it is not. This is about the mud. You notice 90% of the argument about this game is strictly in regards to "no, not diablo". This is not diablo, this is A-A-B-A-H-R-A-N.

Enethier:

How do you feel about characters who utterly REFUSE to pk, holding onto elite, high end eq that is highly sought after? Such as healers, or heralds, or royals who are rarely ever around? Perhaps it is fair that characters of this nature, who have VERY little chance of ever dying, carry this high end rares without a chance of them hitting circulation again? When is the last time you saw: Adeptus Torso, Adeptus Face, Hands of Zha'rek, Fullplate of Twin Sabres, Godforged sacrificial dagger, Ring of Abyss, Solar Grasp of Wendigo, Ancient Scepter, Soul Tear, Acid Etched armplates, Worn leather sleeves. The truth is these items are being held by characters who either do not have alot of play time, or choose not to log in often. Without revealing too much, I believe YOU are a character holding one of these items, in a similar circumstance to what I suggested above.

I know of no royals that are hardly ever on. I know of one such noble, and I believe that one is regularly purged of EQ.

I only know of one Herald, and while I haven't looked lately, I don't think she is decked.

We don't get many healers either. Fewer are decked, and even fewer than that can't be forced via cabal

I have seen the torso and face each once in the last 2 weeks on adeptus.

I saw the hands of zharek a few days ago after a gear trip.

Full plate a few days ago.

Sacrificial dagger and the rest I haven't looked for. So I couldn't tell you.

Also, I only have two great pieces, adept us face and radiance. I don't even think I use any other rates. Also, I can't remember the last time I used diplomatic immunity (has a timer BTW). Anyone fast enough to kill me is free to them. I won't die to recirculate them, however. Death is to be avoided. Kinda think you even saying that is shady.

To answer how I feel about those instances, I don't care. It isn't against the rules. If you can't kill them, pay off someone that can.

How do you feel about characters who utterly REFUSE to pk, holding onto elite, high end eq that is highly sought after? Such as healers, or heralds, or royals who are rarely ever around?

just so we're clear, Heralds are strongly advised not to wear rares as it can lead to hostilities... if they do, they do so knowing they're giving someone reason to attack them and they're not permitted to use diplomatic immunity unless directly involved in a social event/rp plot... the Imms closely watch this so that hoarding and abuse of diplomatic immunity doesn't occur.

the one Herald that currently exists, doesn't use rares, at all, unless they're Herald specific items.