The playerbase still doesn't agree that the Mino charge ability is fair. I agree. I like the idea of seeing the charge stay at 2 rounds of lag (give or take) to the defender, but increased to 3 rounds of lag (give or take) to the attacker/Minotaur. In light of this they would need something to up them against the other giant melees they purely overpower them in nearly every day. Increasing there physical ability without affecting there charge would be the key. Perhaps an increase in Mino dex? Or some other innate ability?
Strength of Minotaurs vs mage and melee
Minotaur charge was already changed into giving the minotaur 2-3 rounds of lag upon using the charge. The 3 rounds of lag is random, but does happen fairly often. As well, there are many ways around the charge.
Minotaur charge was already changed into giving the minotaur 2-3 rounds of lag upon using the charge. The 3 rounds of lag is random' date=' but does happen fairly often. As well, there are many ways around the charge.[/quote']
Yeah, right....
Yeah' date=' right....[/quote']
Lol. My thoughts exactly.
when an invoker can get charge fled killed before he can put up firestorm i agree bs to this mysterious lag to the mino, have always seen the mino flee and return another charge before the lag wears on the mage cleric etc...
If you're charging into battle, thats a pretty bold move and a big commitment of an attack, so maybe make it to where you can't flee for an hour after charging?
I just think there should be viable ways to avoid the lag on a charge. Charge lags the chargee even if it is countered.
Useful points, but do not forget they have quite an uphill battle against other melees. I would also like to hear about ways to make those battle swayed a bit less.
The only ways around mino charge is to blind them or slow them.
My concern on mino charge is with warriors.
Warriors are the best melee class. No other class has the same melee potential.
Then we have mino warriors constantly lagging "protective shield" who absolutely need to cast to deal damage.
Even if the mino got laged 4 rounds for every 2 he lags the caster, it would still overkill.
Communers (clerics+shamans) have the worst as they absolutly need to move and heal if his opponent has any sort of competence. They can't just stand there and out-damage a warrior.
There was a reason we didn't have Minotaur Warriors. They just break some classes, unless the minotaur is a newb.
I would solidly say that warriors are not the best melee class btw. In a PK I think a berserker is much better suited than a warrior. A berserker never has a time where they cannot do SOMETHING where a warrior has many points in a pk where you cannot do anything. Either they have prot shield up, or your lore is useless, or they are flying, or they are predicting dirt kick/bash etc etc.
Both Crusaders, and Berserkers are better as melee fighters IMHO. Crusaders being arguably the masters of Melee combat (which is why they should be warmasters too 
)
If you are both laged, the warrior is always the superior one due to weapon knowledge exploitation, fourth attack and four defenses.
Mino warriors are strong vs mages, yes, but not nearly as strong against other melees. If your fighting a minotaur, heres some tips. Dont fight near your hometown, recall/teleport instead of fleeing, dont fight unless you can get the opener (firestorm, dirt, blindness scrolls, blindness, slow, etc). I've gotten away from minotaurs as mages/communers no problem.
Minotaur charge was already changed into giving the minotaur 2-3 rounds of lag upon using the charge. The 3 rounds of lag is random' date=' but does happen fairly often. As well, there are many ways around the charge.[/quote']
Untrue. Yes, lag was changed, but it never was increased to 3 rounds for the charger.
Untrue. Yes' date=' lag was changed, but it never was increased to 3 rounds for the charger.[/quote']
Then only my minotaurs had that affect, I remember the change log stating that minotaurs would experience a random 3 round lag for charging giving the opponent a better opportunity of getting away. I've experienced it numerous times as my multiple minotaurs.
I think if the only solution to a mino charge is recall/teleport away, and it's like this consistently then there's a problem.. From what I've heard it sounds like that's about the only option. So.. if your only option is to recall immediately its not really a combat-viable option, given that all you are doing is running for your life and never making headway.
People keep saying how minos are weaker than other warriors... how come?
They are the only (non quest) race that is giant and doesn't have a vulnerability. They are the only giant race that isn't vuln to mental spells. Couple that with their ridiculous charge, and they become the best mage killers.
I've played a few minos myself, and it's so easy to kill a mage with them that is not even funny. All you have to do is enter with charge, and every time they cast a spell, you flee and enter with charge again. Once they start running, you have your charge trigger set. I've killed mages without even touching the keyboard to be honest. You enter with charge, they panic and spam "flee" and your charge trigger does the rest.
No other class can lag a mage for 2 rounds on will. Mages rely on not being lagged. You take that away from them, and they have no chance to compete. The ton of minos we've seen has already proved that. Dunno why is this even a debate.
They do have some small losses compared to traditional giants, but the pros they gain compared to those said losses are incredible and far out weight their lack of physical resistance.
[edit] Also, Vaerick's point is spot on. Not to mention that, there are certain combos that can prevent you from recalling/teleporting away. And minos can be them.
I propose that we allow the first minotaur charge to cause lag with a 0 timer, but with the chargee being lagged for more than 2 rounds. The minotaur will be able to charge after that without creating lag only damage. Face it. Your fighting a bull man. Bulls charge and minotaurs should have perks to their charge. Increases the lag, make it only able to lag once an hour, but still able to charge repeatedly and with any weapon.
Not 3. At most it's 2.5 pulses (or 2.5 rounds) which equates to nearly the same amount of time to run and charge someone if you have a trigger set up before flee lag wears off.
People keep saying how minos are weaker than other warriors... how come?.
Since we agree on most points I'll just attempt to answer this question.
I found myself being on both sides of the spectrum. Mino's can be taken down as if they were a rogue (exceptions to the norm being **extremely **decked or skilled players). Simply dual wield and lag them to death. They don't have the physical resistance, regen, hp, str, or sometimes dex to match them. Its usually a very uphill battle.
On another note who were all of these successful Minotaurs you were referring to? For each successful Ogre and Fire counterpart can we name an equally successful Minotaur counterpart?
On another note who were all of these successful Minotaurs you were referring to? For each successful Ogre and Fire counterpart can we name an equally successful Minotaur counterpart?
And how many mages kill those FG/Ogre counterparts with ridiculous ease compared to the charging mino?