Grishnak Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I don't give my opinion in these topics, and will continue to do so. But man can you see why the majority of the PBase advocates playing evils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Oh, my god! I think we have a filesharer! But still... Pirates don't steal - they share! *blinks* Well, I do that, but I don't do that daily. I'm happy with my current music selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear, the Angel's Name Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 The manner which which you chose to raise these questions I took as antagonizing. Let me see if I can delve into this a little further. When I was younger I went to therapy classes because my parents were paranoid that I didn't have any friends, and I never spent time with them. They thought I hated the world, and them. On my first trip to the guy they had chosen for my 'family' therapy, the man took my mother aside and asked her one question: "Is your son cruel to animals?" My mother answered "No, he never has been, he loves animals." And the therapist replied, "Good, I know which way to go, then." I found out about that little discussion only a week or so ago, and I am going to look into it, but from what I have gathered thus far there is a fundamental, terrible difference in the mindsets of people who are deliberately cruel to animals, and people who are not. I'm willing to bet most of the actual guilty murderers on death row weren't very nice to animals when they were young. If my suspicions are true, it would do the world a favor to imprison people who are cruel to animals, or even better, castrate them, if such a thing indeed comes from genes. Give them a lobotomy, too, then they are safe, and they can't make more of themselves. Excellent idea. The focal point of my post was not warping the discussion, but portraying my own viewpoints on retribution and justice. You called me out on cats and food animals. I'll eat a double cheeseburger, but that doesn't make me narrow minded just because I want to break a kid who beat a kitten with a 2x4. My point was this: Saddam deserves it, but he deserves worse than what he's getting at the hands of our justice system, by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 A society that punishes people for what they might do in the future is very, very scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear, the Angel's Name Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I have Nazi-esque beliefs. Shoot me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 A society that punishes people for what they might do in the future is very' date=' very scary.[/quote'] Two words. Minority Report. (a movie, if you don't know what it is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I have Nazi-esque beliefs. Shoot me. Me too I voted yes for cruel and unusual punishment. Idiots who commit such heinous crimes deserve to be tortured and poked with weird objects and otherwise ripped to pieces, very slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear, the Angel's Name Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Great movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear, the Angel's Name Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Me too I voted yes for cruel and unusual punishment. Idiots who commit such heinous crimes deserve to be tortured and poked with weird objects and otherwise ripped to pieces, very slowly. AMEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I love that movie. But I wouldn't like to live in that place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackwilly21 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I love that movie. But I wouldn't like to live in that place. Quoted for truth. Although the virtual reality punishment in that movie (as I recall) actually has quite a bit of potential for pleasantness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 What if... it all was a virtual copy of Forsaken Lands? Mhmm.. Pleasantness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I think a firing squad would suit him. They could start at his ankles. Shoot him in every joint. Ankles first, then knees and elbows....maybe one through the spinal column.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Anyhow, now that it seems the discussion on the economic side of execution has ended, I'll make a post on why I am opposed to the concept of the death penalty in philosophy. Simply put, executing someone who killed someone else is not justice; it is revenge, it is bloodlust. It is the desire to see that someone who has taken something from you, lose something as well. The desire to see someone who has hurt you, or someone you cared about, be hurt; or simply the desire to see someone deserving be hurt, period. There's a reason why executions were always so popular in medieval times, why people would all gather around the square to see and watch. Bloodlust. That's what execution boils down to. In terms of practical effect, evidence is actually contrary to the claim that capital punishment reduces crime; the United States has a higher rate of violent crime/murders than countries without capital punishment; moreover, when the death penalty was suspended, there was no massive surge of murders or major increase in violent crime. And, of course, it does not bring the dead back to life. So what does it do? What is it for? It's for us. It assuages our anger. Our bloodlust. Execution is bloodlust. It is the desire to take an eye for an eye, a life for a life. It is the desire in all of us (and I am including myself), that those who have harmed us be harmed as well; that if we are 'going down' (or our family members/friends/fellow citizens), that we take them down with us. It is, ultimately, a destructive thing. Why do you think that in almost all of the major religions, there is some form of admonition against revenge? In Christianity, there is the famous exhortation by Jesus to ‘turn the other cheek’. And in Buddhism, there is this saying: Revenge upon reprisal upon revenge anew, when shall the cycle end? Execution does nothing positive; it does not bring back the dead, it does not deter murder. What it does is assuage our pain, assuage our anger, in a primitive, primal, bloody way; by destruction. But in doing so, the only thing we are harming is ourselves; we are lowering ourselves, and become worse people. This isn’t to say that I am enlightened, or any nonsense like that; that I am any different. If someone hurt or killed my child, or my wife, or my parents, I think I would hate them. I would want them dead. I would want them to hurt. I would want them to suffer as miserably as my loved ones suffered, as I suffered in learning of it; I would want to slam their head against a wall, gouge out their eyes, lacerate their flesh, rub salt in their wounds, and lacerate them again, and more. And I firmly, firmly believe that I would be a much worse person for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted November 5, 2006 Implementor Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I think such things as killing kittens will take place a lot more in a society that celebrates violence instead of frowning upon it. Violence breeds always more violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 A valid point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belegriel Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Alright then, let's just join hands and sing Kumbaya. That will make the world a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brsingr Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 yeah..... I think saddam deserves to live. a long, miserable life. The death sentence wouldn't stop me (or anyone else, for that matter.) from assaulting/killing someone who had hurt me heh... kumbaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Even if we ignore Europe, compare violent crime rates of Canada and America. I don't know if Kumbaya will make the world a better place, but I am certain bloodlust and execution do not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted November 5, 2006 Implementor Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Getting sarcastic will not further any form of civilized discussion. I think I agree in most parts with Raars post. And it is a simple fact that many, many states without capital punishment have a much lower crime rate than the USA. I think the main reason for the rather high crime rate in the US is the free accessibility of weapons and the fact that violence is often accepted as a legit means to reach one's goals. To get back on subject however, I do not believe in capital punishment. Moreover the legal justification to judge a past government has always been rather shaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomf Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Anyone actually consider what killing Sadam would do? Besides the valid points argued about capital punishment, killing Sadam would make him a martyr. Can you honestly justify creating a further rift in an already broken society, and thus endangering MORE people's lives, with the execution of one man? We aren't talking about some child rapist here. We're talking about a political leader who still has tons of support from people in his country. There are reasons why 'political prisoners' should never be given the death sentence. Furthermore, since it's obvious that America has had some sway in the trial, Saddam's supporters are going to be more enraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Well, on the flip side, Goomf, he's also a political leader who has tons of hatred from other people, the majority Shiite, in the country. I think more people would be angry by him 'getting away with it', as opposed to him 'getting the axe', so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekky Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Here in Australia just a few days ago a guy named Mallard was released from prison after being inside for 12 years. It was found that the rock-solid 'evidence' connecting him to a murder had been fabricated by police who were eager to get a conviction due to the seriousness of the crim (bludgeoning a store-clerk to death with a pipe) - and he was actually at home at the time, as he had always claimed. While in prison he was raped fourteen times by other male inmates with things such as broom handles and tools such as wrenches and hammers, he was stabbed three times and had his throat cut and survived. That doesn't even take into account the numerous beatings and psychological ill-effects of spending 18 hours of every day in a 4 by 6 cell. So, while he was in jail enjoying his 'three hots and a TV, and workouts' the appeal, appeal, appeal that people want to abolish uncovered police corruption that put an innocent man in jail for 12 years of his life from 28 to 40. The prison authority and police already had egg all over their faces, imagine if he'd been executed? Whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 The prison authority and police already had egg all over their faces' date=' imagine if he'd been executed?[/quote'] It'd probably be a lot less egg. WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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