Saddam sentenced to death.

[Questioner]

Jesus christo! Get rid of that pic Zrothum! Mine eyes!

[Iyorvin]

So now it's Guilty till proven innocent? Well he might have them, we better invade anyway, sort the **** out after we're done. No one can do anything anyway, afterall, we're AMERICA!

That's the lamest attitude ever. But the same attitude you have taken since WW2. Whatever, you'll ALWAYS assume your beliefs are the only right ones, and that everyone else in the world is just jealous. Well, to be honest, since the Iraq incident, Bush is viewed, in public polls, as the scariest man on the Earth, besides Osama. He's ahead of Nasrallah, and the head of many terroist organizations. He's ahead of North Korean leaders, Iran leaders, Syria, you name it. Bush is the number 2 most feared man in the world right now, and he runs a democratic country that is bound by a consitution and congress. Go figure.

[Zrothum]

And because of it, we continue to lead happy lives and maintain the freedoms we enjoy.

I never said anything about guilty until proven innocent. I don't 100% agree with the reasons we did go in. I do, however, believe the outcome justified the means. The world is down one incredibly ruthless dictator. He was found guilty in a court of law and that settles it for me. Case closed

[Questioner]

Herp hrmm! You did mention polls right? Well...who uses polls anyway? Do you go on polls? Like all the time? And the only reason why I would be scared of bush is because of his faulty speech and someone might mistake what he says. But then again Kerry did "accidently" put down the soldiers. Was trying to say something else he says...

[Pali]

By weapons, I am referring solely to Weapons of Mass Destruction. Of course he had conventional weapons. I'm not saying Saddam was in any way a guy who deserved to remain in power. I'm saying that no evidence has been found that he ever had WMDs. Using that as a justification for the attack now is just stupid.

[Zrothum]

Only a few ways to look at it:

A) We should not have run in until we had absolute proof, or until he actually used them. (I agree with the first part, but who knows if he would have used them before we found them)

We did the right thing in taking him out before he had the chance and since he was giving us the run-around with weapon inspections and being secretive.

Whatever the case, I will always think the end has justified the means. American military personnel know the dangers they face when they CHOOSE to enlist. Their sacrifice may have saved the lives of many, many people. Maybe it was in vain, too. We'll never know. All we do know now is that Saddam will never hurt another person. And that, to me, is worth the risks, dangers, consequences.

[Malchaeius]

My suggestion is that several of you take some kind of formal class on Ethics.

1. "Saddam had weapons because we say so" is not evidence. Saddam was an evil, evil man. I do not think that many people are mad that he was removed from power, I just think people do not like to feel lied to. The U.S. should have just been a little more honest "We are going to depose a sadistic tyrant that we should have removed from power years ago". “The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” – Thomas Jefferson

2. "If you dont like America, why don't you go somewhere else" is such a poor statement. I am positive that the founding fathers of the United States did not want to create a country full of followers. This nation is built on people having different opinions.

3. The prison system is now a part of big business. A lot of companies are going out of business because prison labor = cheap and efficient labor. Prisoners do not have to be paid minimum wage.

4. Prison is not fun. No matter what anyone will tell you. That is unless you are some big-wig politician/celebrity that goes to minimum security prison, or a big name gangster that has an extended network of corrupted policemen and prisoners watching out for you. I am sure people like Martha Stewart had it easy.

5. People who are overzealous in animal rights scare me. I remember reading somewhere that animals were removed from New Orleans before the humans were. I am sorry, but I think that is VERY ridiculous. I love animals, but I would never should a human baby in the face before a bear cub, and I would airlift a person from the flood before I worried about Fido.

6. It was said before. Death is not a punishment. You are meant to learn something from a punishment. You learn nothing when you are punished by death. Criminals need to be removed from society and rehabilitated.

7. Though the U.S. Justice system has its flaws, I still think that it is better to free 10 criminals than take the life of an innocent.

[Iyorvin]

Uh, that's what Pali IS SAYING. Damnit, it didn't matter about the weapons. You call it a humane just cause to free the people, claim that, and go in. Dont' make up some crap, especially while North Korea was blatently creating them the entire time. Now North Korea, a country WORSE then Iraq ever was, has the bomb and is STILL starving their people to death. There is no money in invading Korea though, better to go into an oil rich country. It's just hypocritical, you can't really say it isn't.

[Zrothum]

Korea is a much more sensitive subject. We can't just rush in there and expect it to be kosher. There are bigger players in the korea game than just the US.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

108 posts about something none of us can change.

[elfdude]

Death is hardly a punishment.

quoted for truth

[BigMac]

First of all. He never had a fair trial. Ever.

What truly were his crimes? Hoarding [Country twang] weapons of mass destruction? [/Country twang]

So apparently he did some bad crap to his people... There are a LOT worse things going on. Way worse. I think if he is to be hung for what he did, the U.S.A. should be on trial for a War without basis. Things he did to his people? We did the same if not worse to those same people with civilian casualties.

So who is really worse? Someone who is probably insane (We do not execute the criminally insane in the USA) or a Country who does what it wants, when it wants, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Even if it hurts/kills millions of people.

Wow, this is the most rediculous post on this thread. Fair trial? Have you heard about what he does when court is in session? He shows absolutely no remorse for what he's done and he throws fits like a baby. He got a much fairer trial than he would've got if I was the soldier who found him.

Apparently he did some bad crap to his people? It's called GENOCIDE. What's your ethnicity? What's your religious background (assuming you're not too modern and sophistocated for religion)? Where are your roots? Think about all the people with ethnic/religious ties to you and imagine them being murdered. Imagine them all dying in agony. Some bad crap? That's like calling the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki hand grenades.

War without basis? Do you know what genocide is? Do you know anything about Germany from 1939 to 1945? Do you know anyone who is Jewish? Do you know their grandparents? Have you ever met someone who survived the Holocaust? Have you ever even read a book about it? Have you ever seen some of the pictures that were taken after the allies liberated Europe? Apparently not.

This isn't about politics. This isn't about George Bush. This isn't about race or religion. It's about people. I am a Texan. I am an American. I am a [voting] Citizen of the United States. I'm a person first. I don't care where you were born, who you worship, how you worship them, or what your beliefs are. The bottom line is that you're a person like me.

Even if you don't feel the death penalty is fair, you've got to be able to understand that killing tens of thousands of people is a crime. It's not just some bad stuff. What Saddam did is comparable to what Hitler and the Third Reich did. Know anything about Nuremberg? That was recorded. That was a fair trial. Very few escaped the death penalty and even fewer were acquitted in a fair trial.

Hitler was a tyrant who waved the finger that killed millions of Jews and other minorities. Saddam was a tyrant who did the exact same thing but on a slightly smaller scale.

My question is this: if you don't think Saddam got a fair trial, then do you think Hermann Göring got a fair trial?

[Questioner]

Iyorvin: Korea being invaded, troops pop ashore, bam bim bam...OH!.....hello china!

Honestly Malch, ethics? Yeah you are right. About some things. However, if you live in this country, you better appreciate it. That is the way I think. Yeah you can live here and not like the system or the people or whatever you don't like about it, but some people just don't get it.

I say, have your opinions, I have mine. But don't go saying that your opinions are better than mine.

I love this country because of it's constitution. Freedom of speech and religion. Do any of you realize how precious that is? It means the freedom to post on this forum without being editted. It means to be able to believe in god, allah, the holy ghost, or in my invisible friend. Saddam didn't allow that, china doesn't allow that, korea doesn't, african countries don't even have a government. Sure the country isn't perfect, yeah there are squeaks in our government, yes there are innocents killed in iraq, but also in China, Korea, Vietnam, India, Russia, Africa, Germany, France, Spain, South America, and right here at home. Did you know that some thirty people died in california a couple days ago? Not in the news? CNN doesn't tell you everything folks, let me break the news to you.

Malch: The tree of liberty symbolizes our country's patriotism and vehement opposition to anything that limits our ability to freedom of all. Thomas Jefferson also had slaves. Our founding fathers also wanted a country where different ethnic and racial groups could live and cooperate with one another in a utopia of freedom. Your term of "followers" is broad, please explain. Animal rights groups..meh...they claim fish have feelings and we need to kill them in a more humane way. I've developed a new goal ever since: "For every creature you save, I will eat three more." Death is no punishment, pscologically yes or no. It depends on the person. Those plane hijackers believed that by dying they would be blessed by allah. But others shiver to think of losing there life, most precious thing in the world, time being second. It is relative. Yes to your last statement. I just wish we could figure out who the real criminals are. *sigh*

[Questioner]

BigMac your my friend. I have seen the pile of ashes from the death camps. The pile of shoes they wore. I have met and befriended real survivors. But we are now better creatures than before. Or at least I hope so.

[Evangelion]

As of December 31, 2001, there were an estimated 5.6 million adults who had ever served time in State or Federal prison, including 4.3 million former prisoners and 1.3 million adults in prison.

Nearly a third of former prisoners were still under correctional supervision, including 731,000 on parole, 437,000 on probation, and 166,000 in local jails.

That means about 2,634,000 people were under correctional supervision in 2001. About 700 people were executed between 1970 and 2000. 2,634,000 divided by 700... one in 3763 people was executed for their crimes. These are the most reprehensible and heinous of the criminal acts committed. Acts deemed worthy of death, committed by criminals deemed unable to be rehabilitated. I think a justice system where less than .1% of the people who are processed in said system are executed for their crimes can't be all bad. The rest are all treated to, as Bel put it, three hots and a cot.

[corpsestomp]

I've developed a new goal ever since: "For every creature you save' date=' I will eat three more."[/quote']

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor

[Questioner]

Thumbs up for the best page in the universe!

[WagesofSin]

Korea is a much more sensitive subject. We can't just rush in there and expect it to be kosher. There are bigger players in the korea game than just the US.

Damn right, they've got elite shock troops to kick our asses with! Don't believe me check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DQzokgGS7g

Let's see our guys top that!

[WagesofSin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LV_lSWPxv0

That's a good one too!

[HBwillie]

I'm down w/Bigmac.

[BigMac]

I'm down w/Bigmac.

*kissy face*

[Nekky]

Jail = Three hots and a cot.

The way you guys are telling it I should ditch my apartment and move right into Long Bay because I wouldn't have to pay rent and I'd still get all the food I'm eating now. Oh, plus a free TV.

Man, that's so worth all the bad stuff. Being gang-raped, penetrated with broom handles and workmans tools, beaten by rival inmates, beaten by guards, stabbed with sharpened toothbrushes or screw drivers, spending 18 hours a day in a very small space, having no friends or family, no life, no prospects...

And if you all think this stuff doesn't go on, I suggest you read the special investigative reports on Long Bay and Katingle prisons in Australia - no one else thought this was going on until these reports got inside a system of mass corruption and systematic violence against inmates.

But hey - at least they got a TV.

[Evangelion]

Better than having to make funeral arrangements or pay hospital bills for the rest of your life, because a criminal brutally murdered, raped, and/or assaulted one of your loved ones. Sure, it's a tough life. But you've got a lot given to you that a lot of law-abiding citizens don't have, especially for someone who has potentially commited horrible crimes.

[Iyorvin]

Yeah, even guarenteed sex every day. Right on! Guys, there is no way more money would be tied up into keeping people OUT of jail then keeping them IN jail, if it was so nice inside. If even half of you really believed what you typed, well you'd be trying to play from inside a jail, because then all you'd have to do is play FL the rest of your life.

[Evangelion]

I'm not saying by any means that jail is an optimal lifestyle.

I'm saying that when you have to choose between the death penalty and jail, jail looks pretty good to a criminal.