Lexi Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Didn't you know, Raargant? Logic is mankind's greatest enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Ok..I can't resist putting down clerity again... Let's put it into perspective... Let us say we don't drop the bombs right? Russia was the second greatest world power after America. Russia would have attacked us if we had not shown them that we were willing to drop bombs on a city, if necessary. THAT is what stopped the real casualties. The real issue was not the japanese, they were through, hanging on to their pride. The real threat was Russia, Stalin was ready to pounce on us if he saw weakness. Dropping the bombs showed them that they had better get some bombs or they wouldn't stand a chance in a war against us. Therfore the cold war. Fortunately the cold war turned out to be....cold. Pray to god tonight as you are playing fl that you can play freely, instead of being a communist citizen, no life of your own, the government practically watching you 24/7. Yes...I agree with you clerity that we could have accepted the Japanese surrender...however we needed to show the commies that we were ready to brandish our power if they went out of line. Wow. A country can drop nuclear weapons on civilian targets, and their people will still think they are RIGHT. Damnit, no matter how much you love your country IT CAN MAKE MISTAKES. I damn well wish some of you would just own up to it. It wasn't you, you're right, but it was your country, and I just LOVE how you defend it. Saying Russia would of attacked is assuming quite a bit, and the 50 year cold war that followed wasn't exactly 'peace'. Dropping those bombs WAS an act of terror. Suddam was at war with the Kurds, they attempted his life, and he killed 148 innocents so they wouldn't attempt it again. US was at war with Japan, they dropped 2 nukes, killed hundreds of thousands of innocents, as an apparent sign of their power/action to defend their country. Same **** different pile. But because American defines itself as a peaceful nation anything goes. As for praying to God you are a democracy over a communism, again assuming too much. First of all you're assuming one form of government is better then the next, when it is perfectly arguable. Second, you are saying the poor and impoverished nation of Russia could of afforded to occupy another nation, much less two, because there is no way Canada would of stood by, much less the rest of the world. There was NO WAY Russia would of attacked America after WW2, and if you dont' remember they were ALLIES before that. Your logic is just completely based off of ignorance. How do you think Berlin got divided? Yeah, that's right, because Russia was part of the ALLIED forces that captured it. Now dont' get me wrong, I love America. HB said it best when he said we are all people. I don't care what colour you are, so long as you are going to stand up for survival, coexistance, and the happiness of our damn race, you're a cool cat with me. But we are going to continue to spiral when no one will own up for their actions, especially in American politics. They can do anything and never step down, never admit the mistake, and always just claim they were doing what they thought was "right". And hey, I'm all for having an opinion, but at least try to get informed. Hearing the bull**** from your over patriatic father isn't a good source. Propaganda is a VERY powerful thing, especially in North America where the culture is ruled by American television. Unlike Europe, where the perspectives of hundreds of different countries can easily be seen and analyzed. P.S. And in no way am I claiming to be all knowing here. But there is a reason Russia is 20 years behind the rest of the developed world, and this all started after WW2. The only threat America has ever had from losing their democracy was....................by not winning their freedom in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Oh, and another thing. America stands against any country who is trying to go nuclear, because they are afraid of the possible threats of an 'irresponsible' country having nukes. Yet, as it stands, America is the ONLY country to have used a nuke against anyone else. And as far as I'm concerned, it wasn't very responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 The reason why I can't own up and defend my country is because it is the only country that can say it is the safest in the world (though still unsafe), and is probably the best one to be in right now (it has it's faults I can't deny), but I hate when people complain about america when every other country has done the wrongs as well. To me America sounds like a scape goat and I get angry by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 That's because America has taken the role as one of the strongest nations of the world, your economy is one of the strongest, your military is one of the strongest, you have come very far in many respect and you portray yourselves as the leading democracy of the world. For a country with such a image, you are doing quite poorly. Death penalties, atomic bombs, exploitation, the middle east, human rights are all far behind what they should be. At least in many European's eyes. How can you say that America is one of the safest countries in the world when it is one of the countries where the most people are gunned to death every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 The reason why I can't own up and defend my country is because it is the only country that can say it is the safest in the world (though still unsafe)' date=' and is probably the best one to be in right now (it has it's faults I can't deny), but I hate when people complain about america when every other country has done the wrongs as well. To me America sounds like a scape goat and I get angry by that.[/quote'] My point proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 How can you say that America is one of the safest countries in the world when it is one of the countries where the most people are gunned to death every year? Post a link to where you got this statistic or it isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 The reason why I can't own up and defend my country is because it is the only country that can say it is the safest in the world (though still unsafe)' date=' and is probably the best one to be in right now (it has it's faults I can't deny), but I hate when people complain about america when every other country has done the wrongs as well. To me America sounds like a scape goat and I get angry by that.[/quote'] Post the place you are getting your statistics, or they are not true. First of all, what has owning up to mistakes your country has made have anything to do with how safe, or prosperous it is? Second of all, every country has made their mistakes, and most own up and admit them. Japan, Germany, France, England, just to name a few of big ones. As for safer? Well I feel much safer in Canada then I would in the United States. I would feel even safer in Sweden or Denmark. No death sentance in either of those countries either, less terrorism, and all three have a form of gun control, strong social programs, and good or at least, alright welfare programs designed to get their poor working. Thirdly, what do I need a scapegoat for? For all my problems? Sorry, I'm quite content. In fact my biggest issues with my own country are the pressures being levied by the States to assist in Iraq, and to switch to the "Clean Air Act(a total fraud)". And last, since this is the attitude of the young American, you state your country is probably the 'best' in the world. Perhaps, I will never say one country is better then the next. One government is better then the other, but I can say, from comparision, I would rather live in a country that has free health care, free education(including university), strong social programs for the poor, gun control, no death penalty, and an international army that is designated to help the UN, and the more unfortunate countries, and/or disaster control. All of these things in hand, when is the last time Denmark or Sweden was bombed? Declared war on? Threatened by terror? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Well.. I was thinking more in raw numbers than per capita. EDIT: I watched the movie 'Bowling for Columbine'. It's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Well.. I was thinking more in raw numbers than per capita. EDIT: I watched the movie 'Bowling for Columbine'. It's great. Raw numbers are meaningless. We have 300 million people, as opposed to other countries with a tiny fraction of that number who nearly match us in murders. And I live in Colorado near Columbine. That movie is a pile of unmitigated lies and crap. (Yes, I've seen it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 That's why I posted the per capita link. And no, I didn't post it trying to trash the states. You guys rank really well per capita wise. Unlike the South American drug lord countries! Hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Hollywood destroys books and rl facts. I am glad I don't depend on movies for my news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 What's wrong with documentaries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 That movie is a pile of unmitigated lies and crap. (Yes' date=' I've seen it)[/quote'] I thought that was just synonymous with saying 'Michael Moore' WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 I thought that was just synonymous with saying 'Michael Moore' WC It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Second of all, every country has made their mistakes, and most own up and admit them. Japan, Germany, France, England, just to name a few of big ones. As for safer? Well I feel much safer in Canada then I would in the United States. I would feel even safer in Sweden or Denmark. No death sentance in either of those countries either, less terrorism, and all three have a form of gun control, strong social programs, and good or at least, alright welfare programs designed to get their poor working. ... All of these things in hand, when is the last time Denmark or Sweden was bombed? Declared war on? Threatened by terror? Gun Control? http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/FailedExperiment.pdf Safer? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita Safer in Denmark, would you? Safer in Canada? Sure, by 5 people per 1000. Getting the poor working? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lab_une-labor-unemployment Seems to be working real well. Working so much better than the states. Great Social programs? Make people feel better about themselves? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_25_34-suicide-rates-ages-25-34 http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_35_44-suicide-rates-ages-35-44 Yeah, because once they get out of school, they aren't the state's problem anymore, are they? Murder is not the only crime there is, and 20% of US Murder occurs in 4 cities anyway, so stay out of NYC, Detroit, DC and Chicago and you'll probably be fine. The US is the best country in the world, and I'll shout my belief of this from the roof tops until I die. This whole euro trash subculture that's calling us arrogant, really needs to look in the mirror. This idea that European nations are so much more evolved and better than the states is the same ****ing thing. I have some issues with people who don't feel their country is the best in the world. How do you have any national pride at all? And since we are making broad, *** ignorant comparisions involving War and Terror and such, it's not like Denmark ever pissed off muslims world wide, is it? And when was the last time Denmark Or Sweden did anything of note? People like reading books? Read this. Some good **** in there. This forum makes me sick sometimes. Everyone will play buddy buddy, but then it takes a little spark to see just how ****ed up everyone is. WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 WC, I may not agree with you on everything, but that post was great. Thanks a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Yes...you added links that would take forever for me to look up. (Applause) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Good retort WC, but for those 5% unemployed in the US, there is alot less social programs to aid them, forcing them into crime or other means to get by. However, countering my points by picking only the negatives really isn't going to do you much good. I lumped three countries into a general category, of which perhaps is MY fault, making your retorts so much harder. I'm glad you believe in your country, that's all and well. I love America, and it's one of the top countries in my book. What I don't like is a lot of the ignorant people who will not own up to their mistakes. Perhaps it's part of being the superpower, I don't know. Buddy of mine said it best, most people don't hate Americans, they hate the American government. P.S. Going by total crimes isn't really fair, when it includes things such as parking tickets. Unless you want to believe that 75 out of 1000 people(7.5%+) are committing crimes worthy of making you 'unsafe'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 What's wrong with documentaries? Nothing, when done unbiased. America is a two party system and every movie that is paid for is paid for by either a loyal democrat or loyal republican(for the most part.) Hard to get a honest perspective from honest facts when they are tainted and twisted to make you believe what they want. The hard and real sad part of Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayesh Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Whoa...wait a minute. Poverty forces people to commit crime? I'm sorry, but that's ludicrous. People make choices. Additionally, with most people in America who live below the "poverty" line making over a 5 figure income and having at least one car and one television set, that hardly qualifies them as "poor". Go to Africa, or Mexico, or some Asian or Eastern European nations if you want to see the truly impoverished. One's financial status does not force them to abandon ethical conduct, nor does it make it acceptable. People choose how they conduct themselves. Crime is a choice like any other made by those who perpetrate such acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 One's financial status does not force them to abandon ethical conduct, nor does it make it acceptable. People choose how they conduct themselves. Crime is a choice like any other made by those who perpetrate such acts. Look at Africa, unless you think Africans are unethical people, poverty does force one to abandon their ethics. Ethics is something you must be able to afford to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Why do the rich make some of the most unethical decesions then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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